Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 <Catches latest load of crap and examines it carefully> Translation: Dispicable Liberal Smearmeister (Gene Frenkle) will be endlessly vilified if he or she (Ya never know folks) attempts to use the same tactics that the Honorable Conservative Commentator (Ghost of BiB) just used. <Drops crap in plastic container> Yep, Same Old Sh*t Note: I'll be at sea for the next week or so, feel free to flame away till I get back. 384108[/snapback] Uhhhh...no. You should have examined it more closely. For starters, Ghost of BiB gives this issue all the credibility it deserves. Frenkle gives it FAR too much. As for me...I think all the loons involved (save Judith Miller, who's suffered enough in going to prision for these idiots) should be given a spanking and sent to bed without their supper. Nice to see issues like Social Security have taken a back seat to the far more important <Insert favorite partisan target here> bashing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Well, the Republicans can spin all that they want but now two senior White House officials have been connected to this mess after the White House specifically said 2 years ago that the 2 of them were not involved at all. The Republican tone has changed from "those involved will be dealt with" to "Umm...she was only a desk jockey anyways...Ummm...she was already outed...ummm...she shouldn't have recommended her husband...ummm...it wasn't that big of a deal...ummm...this is only partisan attacks...ummm...they didn't name her by name...ummmm...must be the liberal press....ummm...must be a left wing conspiracy...ummm...people should just read right wing op-eds to get the facts...ummm...ummm" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Uhhhh...no. You should have examined it more closely. For starters, Ghost of BiB gives this issue all the credibility it deserves. Frenkle gives it FAR too much. As for me...I think all the loons involved (save Judith Miller, who's suffered enough in going to prision for these idiots) should be given a spanking and sent to bed without their supper. Nice to see issues like Social Security have taken a back seat to the far more important <Insert favorite partisan target here> bashing... 384199[/snapback] I didn't know that the prosecutor looking into this would have been working on Social security instead of finding out who leaked the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Well, the Republicans can spin all that they want but now two senior White House officials have been connected to this mess after the White House specifically said 2 years ago that the 2 of them were not involved at all. 384230[/snapback] Just so we're clear, you're talking about this, right? Cooper also writes about his August 2004 testimony before the grand jury relating to his conversation with Vice President Cheney’s Chief of Staff I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby. Cooper writes that, like Rove, Libby never used Plame’s name or indicated that her status was covert and he never told Cooper that he had heard about Plame from other reporters, as some press accounts have indicated. On background, Cooper had asked Libby if he had heard anything about Wilson’s wife sending him to Niger. Libby answered with words to the effect of “Yeah, I’ve heard that too.” TIME "Yeah, I heard that too." Oh, what a SCANDAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 I didn't know that the prosecutor looking into this would have been working on Social security instead of finding out who leaked the info. 384242[/snapback] Yeah...and how much of what gets reported comes from the prosecutor? How much of the spin- and damage-control going on right now comes from the prosecutor, rather than the PR people who otherwise would be publicizing other issuse? How much time is being spent discussing Time/Newsweek/Plame/Rove/Novak/Wilson/whoever else that could be better spent discussing something more important - like maybe toenail fungus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Just so we're clear, you're talking about this, right?TIME "Yeah, I heard that too." Oh, what a SCANDAL! 384258[/snapback] No, I was referring more to this: Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff confirmed the identity of a CIA agent whose husband questioned a key piece of the Bush administration's case for war with Iraq, a Time magazine reporter says. By uttering, "I heard that too", he basically confirmed the information that the reporter already had gotten from Rove. But, the main point I was making was that 2 years ago, the White House stated that these 2 were not involved at all. Now it's become: They were involved but we can give you reasons why it wasn't so bad. To an educated person, there is a difference between these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Yeah...and how much of what gets reported comes from the prosecutor? How much of the spin- and damage-control going on right now comes from the prosecutor, rather than the PR people who otherwise would be publicizing other issuse? How much time is being spent discussing Time/Newsweek/Plame/Rove/Novak/Wilson/whoever else that could be better spent discussing something more important - like maybe toenail fungus? 384271[/snapback] Well, as far as other issues: The President's Social Security proposal is DOA Nobody wants to do anything about the looming Medicare crisis The Bills training camp doesn't start for another 2 weeks Can't we just watch these 2 squirm a little in the meantime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGTEleven Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 No, I was referring more to this:By uttering, "I heard that too", he basically confirmed the information that the reporter already had gotten from Rove. But, the main point I was making was that 2 years ago, the White House stated that these 2 were not involved at all. Now it's become: They were involved but we can give you reasons why it wasn't so bad. To the an educated person, there is a difference between these. 384279[/snapback] Well said. I guess that the meaning of the an educated person is someone that dislikes the current White House. If this were 7 years ago and Matt Drudge was calling these people "involved", you would be calling that a reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Can't we just watch these 2 squirm a little in the meantime? 384292[/snapback] Sure. But if we're hit again in the fall...remember, THIS is how the country was encouraged to spend its summer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 No, I was referring more to this:By uttering, "I heard that too", he basically confirmed the information that the reporter already had gotten from Rove. 384279[/snapback] No, he confirmed that he'd heard the same rumor. If he'd said, "Yes, that's the case" or "Yes, that's true" - those would count as confirmations. "Yeah, I heard that too" means nothing. If Alaska Darin posts that Chin-Mang Wong (from the Yankees) might be out for the year and I reply "Yeah, I heard that too", that's not a confirmation. It's me saying a heard the same thing. Cooper also said that he had other sources but refused to disclose them to Tim Russert on the air. Probably because they were other reporters. Probably because her identity wasn't much of a secret, which of course is the main issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Well said. I guess that the meaning of the an educated person is someone that dislikes the current White House. If this were 7 years ago and Matt Drudge was calling these people "involved", you would be calling that a reach. 384294[/snapback] I fixed my typo before you responded. Sorry. I don't dislike the current White House. I dislike Republican and Democrats who lie, cheat, or steal, or otherwise think that they are above the law. I dislike Pelosi and DeLay almost evenly. This makes me different from the "my party is always right, even when they are wrong" parrots that inhabitate this board. No rational person can say that they agree with the entire platform of either party, but no one wants to say anything negative about their party. I like my politics with a little from column A and some from column B. I think that most others do too, although most posters here won't admit to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Seems to me that the only real test is if a grand jury indites or not. If there is an inditement - we can all pay attention. If not, well, then, awww shucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 No, he confirmed that he'd heard the same rumor. If he'd said, "Yes, that's the case" or "Yes, that's true" - those would count as confirmations. "Yeah, I heard that too" means nothing. If Alaska Darin posts that Chin-Mang Wong (from the Yankees) might be out for the year and I reply "Yeah, I heard that too", that's not a confirmation. It's me saying a heard the same thing. Cooper also said that he had other sources but refused to disclose them to Tim Russert on the air. Probably because they were other reporters. Probably because her identity wasn't much of a secret, which of course is the main issue. 384310[/snapback] Not according to this cnn article: Cheney Aide confirmed CIA agent identity The gist of this article is that "I heard that too" became his second source and confirmation of the person's identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Not according to this cnn article: Cheney Aide confirmed CIA agent identity The gist of this article is that "I heard that too" became his second source and confirmation of the person's identity. 384320[/snapback] That article makes the exact same point. And cites the article I just posted. He also said that Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, confirmed the information. The reporter recounted his 2 1/2 hours before the grand jury in a Time magazine article this week and on Sunday talk shows. In the Time article, he said he asked Libby "if he had heard anything about Wilson's wife sending her husband to Niger. Libby replied, 'Yeah, I've heard that, too' or words to that effect." That's what our reporters call a second source? Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 President Bush just vowed to fire anyone convicted of a crime in the leaking. Although this is a no brainer since if someone is convicted, his job will be the least of his worries. Hopefully, this will put this incident back in the hands of the prosecutor where it belongs and we can move on to other topics. I'm sure that we can all agree at least that we have beaten this topic to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Although this is a no brainer since if someone is convicted, his job will be the least of his worries. 384371[/snapback] But, I think Rove could easily telecommute from the pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 President Bush just vowed to fire anyone convicted of a crime in the leaking. Although this is a no brainer since if someone is convicted, his job will be the least of his worries. Hopefully, this will put this incident back in the hands of the prosecutor where it belongs and we can move on to other topics. I'm sure that we can all agree at least that we have beaten this topic to death. 384371[/snapback] There is nothoing here. There has never been anything except the intense hatred of Rove by the MSM. Did the CIA out Plame? This references a Friend of the Court Brief by 36 NEWS ORGANIZATIONS. Game set and match to the White House. They have been playing you lefties like a violin to get you to show shrill and partisan you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 There is nothoing here. There has never been anything except the intense hatred of Rove by the MSM.Did the CIA out Plame? This references a Friend of the Court Brief by 36 NEWS ORGANIZATIONS. Game set and match to the White House. They have been playing you lefties like a violin to get you to show shrill and partisan you are. 384397[/snapback] Wow, so Rove set this up just to get the Democrats to jump in and start screaming? What a genius! Hey, maybe if they convict him, he could jump up and say that he was just kidding just like on Punk'd or something. A good sense of humor might be helpful in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 President Bush just vowed to fire anyone convicted of a crime in the leaking. Although this is a no brainer since if someone is convicted, his job will be the least of his worries. Hopefully, this will put this incident back in the hands of the prosecutor where it belongs and we can move on to other topics. I'm sure that we can all agree at least that we have beaten this topic to death. 384371[/snapback] No, let's give it three more months of constant news coverage. At least we won't get some sort of meaningless bull sh-- impeachment proceedings at the end of it, since the President's party controls Congress this time around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 There is nothoing here. There has never been anything except the intense hatred of Rove by the MSM.Did the CIA out Plame? This references a Friend of the Court Brief by 36 NEWS ORGANIZATIONS. Game set and match to the White House. They have been playing you lefties like a violin to get you to show shrill and partisan you are. 384397[/snapback] All seriousness now, that article indirectly brings up an important point: given how deeply the media is involved in this story, to what degree does anyone believe we can actually trust the media's reporting of the story? The media's well beyond any standard of objectivity by now...particularly so if they're filing amicus briefs to keep their sources from being reported in the courts while simultaneously accusing Rove of being the source. Edward R. Murrow is rolling in his grave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 No, let's give it three more months of constant news coverage. 384581[/snapback] It's not like there are more important things we could be talking about. BTW, the big news stories on September 10, 2001 were Chandra Levy and shark attacks. And now our big stories are this, the missing girl in Aruba, and some shark attacks in Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 It's not like there are more important things we could be talking about. BTW, the big news stories on September 10, 2001 were Chandra Levy and shark attacks. And now our big stories are this, the missing girl in Aruba, and some shark attacks in Florida. 384590[/snapback] Chandra Levy has got to be the most quickly forgotten story to ever make front page above-the-fold headlines. Not inexplicable, obviously...but it shows what a clean break in public perception 9/11 caused. Just as recent nonsense (the Terry Schiavo death watch, for example), have showed how American cultural inanity has restored itself to 9/10 proportions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Wow, so Rove set this up just to get the Democrats to jump in and start screaming? What a genius! Hey, maybe if they convict him, he could jump up and say that he was just kidding just like on Punk'd or something. A good sense of humor might be helpful in prison. 384465[/snapback] Especially when you're using terms like "punk'd" Chandra Levy has got to be the most quickly forgotten story to ever make front page above-the-fold headlines. Not inexplicable, obviously...but it shows what a clean break in public perception 9/11 caused. Just as recent nonsense (the Terry Schiavo death watch, for example), have showed how American cultural inanity has restored itself to 9/10 proportions... America is nothing, if not resilient...DING!!! Probably no one here despises (I didn't say "hate", Rich...) "the mainstream media" more than I. Then again, without it we wouldn't have this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Chandra Levy has got to be the most quickly forgotten story to ever make front page above-the-fold headlines. 384598[/snapback] That and the Anthrax investigation. Whatever happened to the Anthrax investigation, was that dropped by just the media or the Feds too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 That and the Anthrax investigation. Whatever happened to the Anthrax investigation, was that dropped by just the media or the Feds too? 384615[/snapback] Not a bad question. Notice the correllation between dumb headlines vs. talking heads and media emphasis. I've said before, IMO, that the more ANY administration has to defend itself - that's the entire machine - the less resources there are to do the work. Yeah, I know a lot of it gets into lawyers and PR, but we'd be better off without the lawyers and PR. I'm sort of surprised that someone isn't all over the 1,000 or so pages of recent FBI files on the ACLU and whoever else. Maybe it's not a story? Someone tried to stir it up. Firecracker with a wet fuze? Or, do we drag it out a year from now on a slow news day? See? There are things beyond Roves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Its amazing all of the people on here that don't think the Karl Rove case is important. With the indictments of reporters, newspapers have already been fearful of releasing stories that they describe as important for fear of a grand jury indictment. The more the press gets prosecuted, the worse off we are. Newspapers are the best and most credible source of media that we have right now, and they provide an important check on the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Well as far as spin goes, it seems to me that hte RNC would like to make this be about Joe Wilson's credibility. It is not. Although he will not look good when this is done. The DNC would like to make this be about the President's Credibility. It is not. Although he won't look good after this is done. The Procecutor and Grand Jury will see if any laws have been broken. I wonder if we will get a Perjury charge and a determination that no other laws have been broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I wonder if anyone cares? You think Wilson and the Mrs. do? They're loving it. KA-CHING!!! Much more than their allotted 15 minutes. Yes, Bluefire...in the grand scheme of things this is a non-story. But, being the paranoid conspiracy theorist everyone knows I am...Lewinsky had everyone totally distracted from China. Fell off the radar. What are the Bush gang up to? Hmmm? Could this latest non-issue fiasco have presented some opportunity to slide some stuff around without "the press" getting involved? Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I wonder if anyone cares? You think Wilson and the Mrs. do? They're loving it. KA-CHING!!! Much more than their allotted 15 minutes. Yes, Bluefire...in the grand scheme of things this is a non-story. But, being the paranoid conspiracy theorist everyone knows I am...Lewinsky had everyone totally distracted from China. Fell off the radar. What are the Bush gang up to? Hmmm? Could this latest non-issue fiasco have presented some opportunity to slide some stuff around without "the press" getting involved? Hmmm. 385456[/snapback] No, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't a non-story from the point of view of the press, and most citizens. The ramifications on the press and the possible consequences (in regards to say, another watergate, and having reporters scared to get prosecuted for something like that) DOES make it a story. The only way this isn't a non-story is if you don't care about the press being the 4th estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 No, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't a non-story from the point of view of the press, and most citizens. The ramifications on the press and the possible consequences (in regards to say, another watergate, and having reporters scared to get prosecuted for something like that) DOES make it a story. The only way this isn't a non-story is if you don't care about the press being the 4th estate. 385485[/snapback] Wow, that was easy. No, I don't care about the fourth estate. They have long since proven their unworth, and worse, their danger. OK, dismantle the executive branch of the government over this. You win. The biggest crisis since the asteroid hit 65 million years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Wow, that was easy. No, I don't care about the fourth estate. They have long since proven their unworth, and worse, their danger. They do have a danger, but they also have proven that they are an important fabric of our government and an important check on governmental power. They are also extremely important in the conveyence of information to voters. I would expect a guy that works for the government to not like a check on his power. OK, dismantle the executive branch of the government over this. You win. The biggest crisis since the asteroid hit 65 million years ago. 385533[/snapback] You're taking this way too far. I have not once advocated for Karl Rove to be fired, and I don't think he should be. In fact, I think the whole Karl Rove side of this case is a non-story like you said. The part that is a story is forcing Matt Cooper and Judith Miller to reveal their anonymous sources or go to jail. This is where the check on governmental powers come into play. I know you probably don't like the media and anonymous sources, especially after the Newsweek incident, but I still view it as a necessary evil for a check on governmental power in this country, especially with pretty secretive administrations (which does add to the misinformation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 The press has shown why they are regarded as low as lawyers and car salesmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 The part that is a story is forcing Matt Cooper and Judith Miller to reveal their anonymous sources or go to jail. This is where the check on governmental powers come into play. 385590[/snapback] Of course, that's the part that gets the least coverage in the media, as well. I mean, God forbid the press should cover the important constitutional and legal issues revolving around the the Miller and Cooper subpoena's and contempt charges. Their time's much better spent reporting the latest rumor of who told who what in which email... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Of course, that's the part that gets the least coverage in the media, as well. I mean, God forbid the press should cover the important constitutional and legal issues revolving around the the Miller and Cooper subpoena's and contempt charges. Their time's much better spent reporting the latest rumor of who told who what in which email... 385723[/snapback] It seems to me that is because they really have zero idea what that is all about. There aren't even any plausible rumors. I have seen several lawyers and pundits and analysts just shaking their head and saying "I have no idea what is going on with that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 It seems to me that is because they really have zero idea what that is all about. There aren't even any plausible rumors. I have seen several lawyers and pundits and analysts just shaking their head and saying "I have no idea what is going on with that." 385733[/snapback] I agree, actually. But it still doesn't excuse bull sh-- reporting. Explain it, maybe, but not excuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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