WM a serious holdout?

[Mark VI]

I understand your concern but their is no evidence whatsoever to believe this is the case. This is a simple case of TD wanting a certain return ( 3rd round pick 2006 ) for trading Henry. WM hasn't said one thing about his contract and will be here for camp, ready to have a big year.

 

Next year...next year, I may be dead. Quit worrying about nonsense you can't control and enjoy today.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Uh, I never heard ANYTHING about Willis wanting to hold out. Provide a link or hit the bricks.

[ganesh]

And this is the Bills' fault because...? TD is supposed to give him a contractual sympathy !@#$ b/c he dropped out of the Top 5? That DT from Wisc. who was expected to go in the first-second and got picked in the 6th.... should he get first round money? It went the way it went, he gets paid what he gets paid, and he agreed and signed to two(!) years ago. If he holds out, I think and hope TD has the stones to hand Rosen-ass a note reading, "G_ F_ck Y__rs_lf" and asking if he wants to buy a vowel. Willis is not the end-all, be-all of the Bills O, and unlike the Dolphins and RW, I don't think they'd bat an eyelash.

372381[/snapback]

 

I did not say it was the bills fault......In fact I was trying to say that he

does not owe the bills nor does the bills owe him anything....

All I am asaying is that the guy had lost out 10M due to his injury (not

due to the bills low-balling him)....If he has a all-pro season this year

then it is in his best interest to maximize his value and look for a new

contract...

 

As I mentioned in another thread, this is a business...just like players

in their prime want to be paid like a star, teams don't honor entire

backloaded contracts and are ready to cut you once your star stops

shining....It goes both ways...

[San-O]

I did not say it was the bills fault......In fact I was trying to say that he

does not owe the bills nor does the bills owe him anything....

All I am asaying is that the guy had lost out 10M due to his injury (not

due to the bills low-balling him)....If he has a all-pro season this year

then it is in his best interest to maximize his value and look for a new

contract...

 

As I mentioned in another thread,  this is a business...just like players

in their prime want to be paid like a star, teams don't honor entire

backloaded contracts and are ready to cut you once your star stops

shining....It goes both ways...

372744[/snapback]

 

I think maybe we all got so used to seeing Henry and even A. Smith going

for 2.9 and 3 yards a carry, that anything decent looks incredible by comparison.

 

WM had 4 yards/carry. Like about twenty-five other NFL running backs did last

season.

 

Show me something a little more compelling, and then ask for more money

at the end of next season. Maybe.

[sfladave]

I think maybe we all got so used to seeing Henry and even A. Smith going

for 2.9 and 3 yards a carry, that anything decent looks incredible by comparison.

 

WM had 4 yards/carry.  Like about twenty-five other NFL running backs did last

season.

 

Show me something a little more compelling, and then ask for more money

at the end of next season.  Maybe.

372765[/snapback]

Willis has a GREAT stiff arm. He also is MUCH better in pass protection than Henry.

 

As far as seperating himself from average RBs, I think he started to pull away last year and provided he doesn't suffer and significant injuries then I fully expect him to finish this year in elite status.

 

Bob in SC please tell us where you read or heard that Willis is threatening to hold out. I think that FFS put it in the best perspective that this "talk" is coming about due to the fact that WIllis's agent is Drew "my guys are never paid enough" Rosenhaus. Unsubstantiated jibberish!

 

Willis holding out this year is just not going to happen. There would have already been some posturing done from his side. If Willis comes close to 2000 yards this season you can bet that Willis will be looking for a new deal from the Bills and he will probably get one.

[San-O]

Willis has a GREAT stiff arm. He also is MUCH better in pass protection than Henry. 

 

As far as seperating himself from average RBs, I think he started to pull away last year and provided he doesn't suffer and significant injuries then I fully expect him to finish this year in elite status.

 

372788[/snapback]

 

 

Agree.

[Bob in SC]

Willis has a GREAT stiff arm. He also is MUCH better in pass protection than Henry. 

 

As far as seperating himself from average RBs, I think he started to pull away last year and provided he doesn't suffer and significant injuries then I fully expect him to finish this year in elite status.

 

Bob in SC please tell us where you read or heard that Willis is threatening to hold out.  I think that FFS put it in the best perspective that this "talk" is coming about due to the fact that WIllis's agent is Drew "my guys are never paid enough" Rosenhaus. Unsubstantiated jibberish!

 

Willis holding out this year is just not going to happen.  There would have already been some posturing done from his side.  If Willis comes close to 2000 yards this season you can bet that Willis will be looking for a new deal from the Bills and he will probably get one.

372788[/snapback]

 

I honestly don't recall where I got this impression - probably just from talk and speculation, some of it maybe here on the Wall. The idea probably came in part (as you and FFS suggested) from a combination of Drew's planting ideas for future negotiations and WM's choosing to work out on his own a while back. I appreciate the clarification from you and others. As pointed out by several posters, the issue MAY be one for next year. And, that could be a good thing, since it would mean that he will have had a highly productive 2005! Here's hoping.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I honestly don't recall where I got this impression - probably just from talk and speculation, some of it maybe here on the Wall. The idea probably came in part (as you and FFS suggested) from a combination of Drew's planting ideas for future negotiations and WM's choosing to work out on his own a while back. I appreciate the clarification from you and others. As pointed out by several posters, the issue MAY be one for next year. And, that could be a good thing, since it would mean that he will have had a highly productive 2005! Here's hoping.

372983[/snapback]

 

Thank you for bringing this thread back to reality. I can understand how someone might make a grand leap to fearing a WM holdout based his agent using the tactic with other players and based on WM doing drive-by appearances in the "voluntary" camps.

 

However, fearing a WM holdout this year makes zero sense and even fearing it next year is getting so far ahead of the game that it while it would be silly for a GM not to have contingencies for a lot of situations it would be even sillier to worry about this possibility at this point.

 

Whether WM runs as successfully as he did in the second half of last season and whether he gets hurt or not (which even under normal circumstances no one can predict accurately) makes such a huge difference in how one views the WM case that worrying about it or taking any action beyond his current contract would simply be silly.

 

Even as far as "voluntary" camp goes. WM was clearly at a UM alum effort which sounds like such a torture chamber that if anyone is worried about him not showing up the worry is that he is working too hard rather than slacking off.

 

The holdout thing is non-issue for now and until we see how this season plays out.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I honestly don't recall where I got this impression - probably just from talk and speculation, some of it maybe here on the Wall. The idea probably came in part (as you and FFS suggested) from a combination of Drew's planting ideas for future negotiations and WM's choosing to work out on his own a while back. I appreciate the clarification from you and others. As pointed out by several posters, the issue MAY be one for next year. And, that could be a good thing, since it would mean that he will have had a highly productive 2005! Here's hoping.

372983[/snapback]

 

Ah, so in other words, you're just spouting off to get people all worked up.

 

Thanks a lot.

[Bob in SC]

Ah, so in other words, you're just spouting off to get people all worked up.

 

Thanks a lot.

373157[/snapback]

It seems to me that you are the one most worked up by it all. Others just used the occasion to express some beliefs and feelings about Willis, some of which probably had little or no basis in fact but made for some interesting reading while we bide the time for a few more weeks. Still others explained why the idea that I proposed could not have been correct, and as I noted, that was helpful. It's exactly what I wanted. However, many thanks to you for telling me the REAL reason why I started the thread. What a talent! I'll be sure to check with you the next time I wonder why I really did something!

 

Seriously, much of the content of this board this time of year (that which is not plain OT) is based on rumors, subjective impressions, hearsay, and wishful thinking. Check out some of the more recent threads. There's just not much "factual" out there right now. But, would we want it any other way? Not only does that make for some interesting discussions, it also helps to put misinformation to rest - as apparently happened here. I think we are all here to learn and to engage in a little debate; at least I am. I wouldn't want this to be nothing more than a newsletter.

[BADOLBILZ]

Average rb's are a dime a dozen. Great Backs are one in a million, and Willis has the potential to be one of the great ones.  He proves it this year and well he deserves to get paid.  Hopefully by us.  GO WILLIS.

372512[/snapback]

 

Great running backs aren't hard to find. Even the oft-times hard luck Bills have had Gilchrist, OJ and Thurman. What's more, they've had a slew of very good backs in between those guys. Willis has a chance to be the next great Bills RB, but he has already had 2 knee re-constructions in his brief football career, and I think it's fair to assume he is high risk for another based on past histories of guys like Jamal Anderson, Shawn Bryson and Terrell Davis who blew out knees, got patched, and did it again. No way in hell would I re-do his contract until he plays this one out, the guy has been a starter twice and blown out a knee twice and has only even played in 3 of 5 possible seasons since 1999. Great backs stay on the field, Willis has a lot of proving to do in that regard.

[ganesh]

  If Willis comes close to 2000 yards this season you can bet that Willis will be looking for a new deal from the Bills and he will probably get one.

372788[/snapback]

 

This is exactly what I am saying....If he has a excellent season, be prepared

for a holdout by McGahee...That is when things are going to get tricky....

TD/RW will have to dish out close to 40M in signing bonus to WM and

Clements, if we are going to franchise and sign him long term.

[ganesh]

Great running backs aren't hard to find.  Even the oft-times hard luck Bills have had Gilchrist, OJ and Thurman.  What's more, they've had a slew of very good backs in between those guys.  Willis has a chance to be the next great Bills RB, but he has already had 2 knee re-constructions in his brief football career,  and I think it's fair to assume he is high risk for another based on past histories of guys like Jamal Anderson, Shawn Bryson and Terrell Davis who blew out knees, got patched, and did it again.  No way in hell would I re-do his contract until he plays this one out, the guy has been a starter twice and blown out a knee twice and has only even played in 3 of 5 possible seasons since 1999.  Great backs stay on the field, Willis has a lot of proving to do in that regard.

373313[/snapback]

 

There was also a guy from Oklahoma St. who had blown up his knee the

previous year and fell in the 2nd round and he went on to 4 super bowls...

 

BTW Great RBs are indeed hard to find....I mean the guys who successfully

run for 1000+ yards for 6-7+ seasons and make a difference in the win

column are not easy to find....How many are there in the history...the same

as the # of great QBs in the league history....same as the # of WRs in

the league....

[UConn James]

The speculation, I believe, came in the form of a chat (don't remember which site it was on, sorry) where he was asked if he'd like to stay in Buffalo, to which he replied, "If they pay me." Several other answers were along these lines as well. This was around the time Rosen-ass was on the sports talk show circuit crying about how his clients weren't making as much as they should.

 

2+2=4. I think. I wasn't a math major.

 

(Ganesh, just to be clear, I wasn't calling you out upthread. Those were general statements, not repudiations.)

[BADOLBILZ]

There was also a guy from Oklahoma St. who had blown up his knee the

previous year and fell in the 2nd round and he went on to 4 super bowls...

 

BTW Great RBs are indeed hard to find....I mean the guys who successfully

run for 1000+ yards for 6-7+ seasons and make a difference in the win

column are not easy to find....How many are there in the history...the same

as the # of great QBs in the league history....same as the # of WRs in

the league....

373343[/snapback]

 

First off, Thomas did not have a knee injury that required re-construction. He twisted his knee in a pickup basketball game and had an arthroscopic procedure. Big difference, ask Fred Taylor fan. Oh yeah, .............................

 

As for great RB's being hard to find, it's all in the definition. Terrell Davis was a great RB IMO, but he doesn't meet your criteria. Neither do Earl Campbell or the man he was traded for, George Rogers. Or Billy Sims. Now THIS is a long list.

 

Running backs have a high flameout rate, and often the ones who put up those 6-7 1000 yard seasons aren't necessarily the greatest IMO, just the most durable. Think what you want, but QB's don't come into the league at an All Pro level, then crash and burn after 4-5 great seasons. Either do WR's. I mean, the league is LOADED with WR's who have had very long All Pro careers. I'd bet there are at least twice as many WR's active today who have had long, All-Pro type careers as there are backs of the same type of performance and years in the league.

 

I don't think your criteria work, and when I say I think Willis could be a great back, I would say he is more likely to be great for 3-5 seasons rather than be a 6 or 7 time 1000 yard rusher. A great QB or WR will probably give you 10-15 top notch seasons by comparison, and as such are better long term investments.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

This is exactly what I am saying....If he has a excellent season, be prepared

for a holdout by McGahee...That is when things are going to get tricky....

TD/RW will have to dish out close to 40M in signing bonus to WM and

Clements, if we are going to franchise and sign him long term.

373342[/snapback]

 

Yeah and if he has a great 3/4 of a season but blows his knee out the tricky part for TD is judging how long they stick with him in rehab before giving up on him and keeping his annual salary..

 

or if he has a lousy season the tricky call is do they juge he can make his way back...

 

or if he is sometimes good and sometimes not as good...

 

 

or if he slips in the shower on a bar of soap and hits his head and is reduced to Travis Henry like intelligence...

 

 

or blah blah blah

 

There is a ton of reality to happen before anyone can usefully worry about what to do.

[Bob in SC]

The speculation, I believe, came in the form of a chat (don't remember which site it was on, sorry) where he was asked if he'd like to stay in Buffalo, to which he replied, "If they pay me." Several other answers were along these lines as well. This was around the time Rosen-ass was on the sports talk show circuit crying about how his clients weren't making as much as they should.

 

2+2=4. I think. I wasn't a math major.

 

(Ganesh, just to be clear, I wasn't calling you out upthread. Those were general statements, not repudiations.)

373411[/snapback]

Thank you. It's reassuring to know that I was not hallucinating after all.

[finknottle]

Ah, so in other words, you're just spouting off to get people all worked up.

 

Thanks a lot.

373157[/snapback]

 

Yeah, this board is reserved for people who hear things from unnamed people close to the Bills. God Forbid that the guy should think about what's happening and offer an interesting speculation... We don't want to think here, we only want to spout off about what we heard on the radio or read on some other teams forum.

[finknottle]

Average rb's are a dime a dozen. Great Backs are one in a million, and Willis has the potential to be one of the great ones.  He proves it this year and well he deserves to get paid.  Hopefully by us.   GO WILLIS.

372512[/snapback]

 

When's the last time a great running back carried his team to the title? When's the last time a team without a great running back won the title?

 

Great runningbacks are consolation prizes. You can spend December getting excited about the playoffs or you can spend it getting excited about whether your guy is going to top 1,500 yards. Save your money - a good running back is good enough.

[RJsackedagain]

You said it! Do we just make this stuff up because it's the offseason and we're bored? I haven't heard a thing about Willis threatening to hold out.

372516[/snapback]

I was wondering where all this rumors stuff was coming from too. ... I do however expect Willie to want more cash next year --- you know it's coming with Drew as his agent