UConn James Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I sure hope you never jerked off. That's pretty much half murder. 362740[/snapback] And all that yellow stuff on your car this time of year? I wonder if the oak trees feel ashamed because they masturbated. I had a botany and Shakespeare class in the same semester years ago. It's pretty cool how the Bard compares people's life cycles in terms of the planting season. Look at the process, and in the grand scale, the processes of Life really aren't very different.... In re: to the original subject, I always remember a scene from my youth at my grandparents' church in WNY (Palmyra?), a pretty big congregation. I excused myself to use the facilities downstairs shortly after the collection. There on the table was the biggest pile of money I'd ever seen and there were five guys sitting around smoking and counting it up and words can't describe the look in their eyes and faces, but it's probably a lot like Silas Marner when he was counting his gold pieces in his dark hovel. I visited them last week actually, and got the annual You're Going to Hell speech. Whatever. I don't like an entity that allows things to happen like He does and call it His Plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Children are never condemned. However, every Christian faith does say that you have to accept Jesus or you are condemned. But this also applies to those who have reach the age of reasoning. Has nothing to do either with saying the right thing. Actions speak louder. 362830[/snapback] Children grow up though. Eventually they are adults and can be condemned. So in other words, if there is 8 billion on the planet, God saves all Catholics who act the right way, and sends the other 7.5 billion or so to hell? And you really believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 So in other words, if there is 8 billion on the planet, God saves all Catholics who act the right way, and sends the other 7.5 billion or so to hell? And you really believe this? 362833[/snapback] Never said it was easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Never said it was easy. 362834[/snapback] So in other words, God punishes any child who grows up in another faith anywhere on the planet who continues to believe in the faith that his or her parents brought them up in by sending them to Hell. Billions of them. And you believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 So in other words, God punishes any child who grows up in another faith anywhere on the planet who continues to believe in the faith that his or her parents brought them up in. Billions of them. And you believe this? 362835[/snapback] How many times are you going to ask the same exact question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Children grow up though. Eventually they are adults and can be condemned. So in other words, if there is 8 billion on the planet, God saves all Catholics who act the right way, and sends the other 7.5 billion or so to hell? And you really believe this? 362833[/snapback] Or what of a tribe of people cut off from the modern world who have never even heard about this Jesus fellow, are they banned from heaven because missionaries haven't gotten around to them yet? That would be pretty cruel methinks... I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours But I think that God's got a sick sense of humor And when I die, I expect to find him laughing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 How many times are you going to ask the same exact question? 362836[/snapback] Until you answer, yes, I believe that God sends billions to Hell because they do not convert, even if they have never heard of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Until you answer, yes, I believe that God sends billions to Hell because they do not convert, even if they have never heard of Jesus. 362839[/snapback] But he doesn't and the Catholic faith doesn't profess that. While some pretestant religions do the Catholic faith says that those who use other forms of faith or are ignorant of the Church can be saved but first must enter Purgatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Never said it was easy. 362834[/snapback] Is Eryn Illegal because she was conceived via IVF. Is she not a child of God ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Is Eryn Illegal because she was conceived via IVF. Is she not a child of God ? 362851[/snapback] No child is "illegal". Do you think this sh-- up as you go or you been hanging out with BF a little too much lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 No child is "illegal". Do you think this sh-- up as you go or you been hanging out with BF a little too much lately. 362853[/snapback] Answer the question then. How is my daughter viewed in the Church. And you know what church I'm talking about. She was ill conceived according to the church. Pisses me off, as you can see.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Is Eryn Illegal because she was conceived via IVF. Is she not a child of God ? 362851[/snapback] Yeah, so tell her to stop picking lettuce and get her ass back to Mexico! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Answer the question then. How is my daughter viewed in the Church. And you know what church I'm talking about. She was ill conceived according to the church.Pisses me off, as you can see.............. 362854[/snapback] No the problem with IVF is how it works. There are several issues, the first being if boths the eggs and sperm come from annonymous donors you could potentially wind up with a child who is the joining of a brother and sister. Highly unlikely but could happen. Second the Church looks on the Eryn as a creation of God. Always has, and always will. To think otherwise is wrong. The Catholic Church has always said that the creation of a baby in a marraige is right even if scientific means are used. Finally the real problem with IVF is that usually multiple eggs are fertalized and only the most viable one implanted with the others destroyed. Anyway you look at it that was a life and the other babies were killed. Another fact you may or may not be aware of is that some doctors actually implant multiple fertalized eggs in the uterus and several months into the pregnancy figures out which one is doing the best and aborts the other. BTW a lot of people are not aware of that final paragraph and the Catholic Church recognizes that and understands that a lot of people get IVF without full knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 But he doesn't and the Catholic faith doesn't profess that. While some pretestant religions do the Catholic faith says that those who use other forms of faith or are ignorant of the Church can be saved but first must enter Purgatory. 362841[/snapback] I thought I read that all people who enter Purgatory eventually get to Heaven, so how is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I thought I read that all people who enter Purgatory eventually get to Heaven, so how is that possible? 362860[/snapback] Not true, I don't think, but I don't know everything. The are sent there to be purged of there sins. They will then be judged. I believe most who go to purgatory go to Heaven. However, in order to even go to purgatory one must have at least lived Christlike, if not in the faith. It is believed that one reduces or eliminates their time in purgatory by receiving the graces of God, via the sacraments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 No the problem with IVF is how it works. There are several issues, the first being if boths the eggs and sperm come from annonymous donors you could potentially wind up with a child who is the joining of a brother and sister. Highly unlikely but could happen. Second the Church looks on the Eryn as a creation of God. Always has, and always will. To think otherwise is wrong. The Catholic Church has always said that the creation of a baby in a marraige is right even if scientific means are used. Finally the real problem with IVF is that usually multiple eggs are fertalized and only the most viable one implanted with the others destroyed. Anyway you look at it that was a life and the other babies were killed. Another fact you may or may not be aware of is that some doctors actually implant multiple fertalized eggs in the uterus and several months into the pregnancy figures out which one is doing the best and aborts the other. BTW a lot of people are not aware of that final paragraph and the Catholic Church recognizes that and understands that a lot of people get IVF without full knowledge. 362859[/snapback] While I appreciate your response, you really have no !@#$ing idea what its like. Honestly, you dont. While I like you as a friend, you are a complete idiot when it comes to this, and what it encompasses. You know how much I love my girls VA, Should I have been punished by not having the oppertunity to be a father because of my faithbecause I shouldnt have spent 15K the first time? Or the second? Or the third? Or the fourth? Thats right 4 times we tried over 8 years. I was raised a RC, even went to a RC military school. Why was my faith strayed, was it because I love my wife? I wanted help in procreating for her? Who's fault is this? Bull Sh*t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Not true, I don't think, but I don't know everything. The are sent there to be purged of there sins. They will then be judged. I believe most who go to purgatory go to Heaven. However, in order to even go to purgatory one must have at least lived Christlike, if not in the faith. It is believed that one reduces or eliminates their time in purgatory by receiving the graces of God, via the sacraments. 362863[/snapback] After death, people who had repented for their sins, but had not expiated them, are purged before entering Heaven. Everyone who enters Purgatory will eventually reach Heaven, therefore it is not some lesser form of Hell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 While I appreciate your response, you really have no !@#$ing idea what its like. Honestly, you dont. While I like you as a friend, you are a complete idiot when it comes to this, and what it encompasses. You know how much I love my girls VA, Should I have been punished by not having the oppertunity to be a father because of my faithbecause I shouldnt have spent 15K the first time? Or the second? Or the third? Or the fourth? Thats right 4 times we tried over 8 years. I was raised a RC, even went to a RC military school. Why was my faith strayed, was it because I love my wife? I wanted help in procreating for her?Who's fault is this? Bull Sh*t 362866[/snapback] No I don't. I neither judged you nor said I don't think anything bad about you or your situation. I can try to understand but never truely will. No I am not an idiot when it comes to this, but I do know what the Church teaches. And trust me they do not look at your daughter as anything less then a gift from God. Trust me on that, I know that for a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory 362869[/snapback] Okay, I honestly thought it was more of a "trial and purging" by fire, and some still choose not to go through the pain and suffering and are expelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beausox Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Andrew Greely is a Roman Catholic priest and has a decent article which shows why many Catholics are not involved in the Intelligent design debate: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0211-25.htm 362345[/snapback] Greeley is a Jesuit not a Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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