NY Mets 2024 Season

[Another Fan]

@Gugny @SinceThe70s @ExWNYer

 

Happy Belated New Year guys.  The last Mets thread which went on for years on the site gave me some warning the thread was old about revising it.  And you know maybe I thought it was time for a new thread.  

 

I've heard some fans upset that Cohen/Stearns didn't do more this offseason (notably WFAN's Joe Benigno) but I think we saw last year spending money won't automatically by a World Series.  Still the Stearns/Mendoza combination isbn doing much to excite me at the moment.  

 

I think 70s posted this on the old thread

 

https://www.immaculategrid.com

 

 

I enjoy playing it even though if I'm lucky I only score about what the average is on the site.  My favorite answer on that was Joe McEwing or Super Joe when it asked for someone who started at short stop and center field.  Loved that guy when I was younger but he was the player in pro sports to make me realize why some guys are just part time players.  

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, Another Fan said:

@Gugny @SinceThe70s @ExWNYer

 

Happy Belated New Year guys.  The last Mets thread which went on for years on the site gave me some warning the thread was old about revising it.  And you know maybe I thought it was time for a new thread.  

 

I've heard some fans upset that Cohen/Stearns didn't do more this offseason (notably WFAN's Joe Benigno) but I think we saw last year spending money won't automatically by a World Series.  Still the Stearns/Mendoza combination isbn doing much to excite me at the moment.  

 

I think 70s posted this on the old thread

 

https://www.immaculategrid.com

 

 

I enjoy playing it even though if I'm lucky I only score about what the average is on the site.  My favorite answer on that was Joe McEwing or Super Joe when it asked for someone who started at short stop and center field.  Loved that guy when I was younger but he was the player in pro sports to make me realize why some guys are just part time players.  

 

LOL - I put down Super Joe for SS/CF too. Couldn't agree more with the bolded - one of those guys where the more he plays the less you appreciate him.

 

I'm not about to hype up the Mets off season or upcoming year - missing out on the Yamamoto was disappointing and the Mauricio injury was depressing. At the same time beyond hoping for Yamamoto I didn't expect any big moves. I'm looking forward to seeing which of the young guys step up/down - and same with the vets - especially Marte.   

[ExWNYer]

@Gugny @SinceThe70s @Another Fan

 

Welcome to 2024, gents. I hope this finds you all well after the holidays and yet another sickening Bills exit from the playoffs. Between that, the Sabres continued ineptitude, and the Mets looking like 'also rans' this coming year (an all too familiar feeling) along with Pete Alonso's impending free agency at year's end, it seems like this is destined to be yet another lost sports year in the flotsam and jetsam of my fandom. But I digress...

 

I concur with you both on the Joe McEwing point. Loved that dude. He's the kind of versatile 'glue guy' that every good team needs. He was a fantastic utility player.

 

This off-season has been underwhelming and losing out on Yamamoto felt worse than it probably was. I know there will likely never be a hard cap in baseball but the system is broken. I can't stand the fugging Dodgers. That stunt they pulled by signing Ohtani to a record $700M contract and deferring all of it but $2M per year and then inking Yamamoto to a $325M mega deal was complete bs. Although they were within the rules as currently constructed, it was way outside of the 'spirit of the law', IMO. They found a loophole and exploited it (good for them) but MLB needs to shut down that garbage. I don't think it's good for the game. Then again, they don't care what I think as a long time fan of the sport. There is another Japanese phenom named Roki Sasaki who will probably be headed to MLB in a couple of years who is supposedly a better pitcher than Yamamoto. He's only 22 and is the youngest pitcher to ever throw a perfect game in Japan. He would fit into the Mets timeline of wanting to "seriously challenge for a World Series". Remember the name. You heard it here first (or maybe you didn't. lol)

 

Lastly, aside from missing out on Yamamoto, my biggest gripe with the organization is failing to address the DH position. I know they want to see what Vientos can do and determine what they have in him but I'm sick of that position being a continual blackhole. Enough is enough already. They claim that they are going to be competitive this year, if not WS contenders (whatever the hell that means) and Mark Vientos at DH will not accomplish that. Go out and at least sign a one or two year stop gap like Turner, Martinez, or Soler (my choice). Bummed about the Mauricio injury (wanted to see if he was the answer at 3B). I did like signing Ottavino again to a one year deal. Come on Spring Training. Can't wait for pitchers and catchers to report! LGM!

[SinceThe70s]

@Gugny @ExWNYer @Another Fan

 

Looking forward to another season of talking baseball and most likely lamenting another lost season for the Mets. 

 

With spring training a few weeks off, thought I'd lamp it up a bit. As you may know my youngest loves playing baseball. He's a good player but a cut below the top players in our area. He missed the cut as a 7th grader and had his heart set on making the middle school team the following year but Covid cancelled the season. Long story short, he's a HS senior now and trying out for the first time since middle school. I've been taking him down to the local field to hit him ground balls and get him some swings in the batting cage. Good times for both of us. There's something special about having a catch with your son.

 

[Gugny]

@SinceThe70s @ExWNYer @Another Fan

 

Hey, fellas!

 

I feel (and have felt) like the 2024 Mets season isn’t necessarily a “throw away” season, but still a “do your best with what you’ve got” kind of season. 
 

My expectations are around .500, hopefully above - and I’m okay with that. 
 

I think Cohen will have a better idea of the team’s needs and will be in more of a “nobody will offer more money to any player I want on the team,” mode next offseason. 
 

The lack of attention (again) at DH is primarily what makes me feel this way. 
 

Time to find out if last year’s rookies/newbies are gonna be part of the long-term solution - or if it’s time to move on. 
 

Love to see Ottavino back, personally. 
 

But I’m looking forward to seeing a lot of our young guys and see them separate the men from the boys and the contenders from the pretenders. 
 

#LFGM

 

[SinceThe70s]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

@SinceThe70s @ExWNYer @Another Fan

 

Hey, fellas!

 

I feel (and have felt) like the 2024 Mets season isn’t necessarily a “throw away” season, but still a “do your best with what you’ve got” kind of season. 
 

My expectations are around .500, hopefully above - and I’m okay with that. 
 

I think Cohen will have a better idea of the team’s needs and will be in more of a “nobody will offer more money to any player I want on the team,” mode next offseason. 
 

The lack of attention (again) at DH is primarily what makes me feel this way. 
 

Time to find out if last year’s rookies/newbies are gonna be part of the long-term solution - or if it’s time to move on. 
 

Love to see Ottavino back, personally. 
 

But I’m looking forward to seeing a lot of our young guys and see them separate the men from the boys and the contenders from the pretenders. 
 

#LFGM

 

 

Agree it's not a throw away season, more of a wait and see for me. If they hover around .500 it won't surprise me to see them get aggressive at the trade deadline.

 

Interesting that both you and @ExWNYer keyed in on DH. I gotta give that some more thought as it's not a front and center concern for me. I don't like the idea of devoting a roster spot to a one-dimensional player. I will say that if Alvarez develops into a monster hitter I'd want him to get at bats at DH on off days and double-headers. Along similar lines, I like the idea of using the DH position to give regulars a rest - but one of your bench players better be able to swing the bat.

 

 

 

[ExWNYer]

1 hour ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Agree it's not a throw away season, more of a wait and see for me. If they hover around .500 it won't surprise me to see them get aggressive at the trade deadline.

 

Interesting that both you and @ExWNYer keyed in on DH. I gotta give that some more thought as it's not a front and center concern for me. I don't like the idea of devoting a roster spot to a one-dimensional player. I will say that if Alvarez develops into a monster hitter I'd want him to get at bats at DH on off days and double-headers. Along similar lines, I like the idea of using the DH position to give regulars a rest - but one of your bench players better be able to swing the bat.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't really matter how any of us feel about the DH position because it's obvious that they are going to ride or die with Vientos this year to see whether he will be part of the core going forward or whether they should move on from him. In the micro, I can live with that since this year will be about finding out what they have in the kids. This is not a 'throw away' year to me...more like a let's assess what we have and 'retool' before diving back into the expensive free agent market next year. I can live with that since they seem to be emphasizing doing things the right way. Going in with that acceptance upfront is easier, knowing that not much is expected of them and a Wild Card run would be exciting versus what they presented last year as a supposed WS run with two graybeards anchoring the rotation and disappointing everyone. Unlike in years past when they sucked, there is still plenty of talent on this team and in the organization.

 

Getting back to the DH topic...in the macro, I do expect them to address it properly next year, if Vientos flames out and is not the answer. He hit .205 last year so I'm not holding my breath that simply getting more ABs will be the cure all. I hope I'm wrong because I want to like him. In any event, the position is just as important as any other and has been ignored far too long. 

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, ExWNYer said:

 

It doesn't really matter how any of us feel about the DH position because it's obvious that they are going to ride or die with Vientos this year to see whether he will be part of the core going forward or whether they should move on from him. In the micro, I can live with that since this year will be about finding out what they have in the kids. This is not a 'throw away' year to me...more like a let's assess what we have and 'retool' before diving back into the expensive free agent market next year. I can live with that since they seem to be emphasizing doing things the right way. Going in with that acceptance upfront is easier, knowing that not much is expected of them and a Wild Card run would be exciting versus what they presented last year as a supposed WS run with two graybeards anchoring the rotation and disappointing everyone. Unlike in years past when they sucked, there is still plenty of talent on this team and in the organization.

 

Getting back to the DH topic...in the macro, I do expect them to address it properly next year, if Vientos flames out and is not the answer. He hit .205 last year so I'm not holding my breath that simply getting more ABs will be the cure all. I hope I'm wrong because I want to like him. In any event, the position is just as important as any other and has been ignored far too long. 

 

So what would constitute addressing DH properly? Signing an aging proven vet hitter to a high end contract? If so, presumably it's someone who can hit righties and lefties?  BTW,  not challenging you, just picking your brain.

 

For the record I'm not arguing that the position is unimportant but I disagree that it's been ignored - more like poorly filled with the likes of Ruf and Vogelbach which not only didn't provide a proven vet hitter who could hit righties and lefties but also limited us defensively.

 

 

 

 

[ExWNYer]

30 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

So what would constitute addressing DH properly? Signing an aging proven vet hitter to a high end contract? If so, presumably it's someone who can hit righties and lefties?  BTW,  not challenging you, just picking your brain.

 

For the record I'm not arguing that the position is unimportant but I disagree that it's been ignored - more like poorly filled with the likes of Ruf and Vogelbach which not only didn't provide a proven vet hitter who could hit righties and lefties but also limited us defensively.

 

 

 

 

 

"Signing an aging proven vet hitter to a high end contract" is exactly the opposite of what I meant by properly addressing the position. That is a stop gap, as were Ruf and Vogelbach. There was absolutely no excuse to have those two at DH last year on what was billed as a WS contender. None. That was a travesty and they were negligent in addressing the position. So, yeah, it was ignored. Maybe we don't actually disagree and it's just a matter of semantics, I don't know. Right now, Vientos is just Ruf and Vogelbach with position flexibility. If he turns in another near .205 year, then he is obviously not the solution. If he rakes then great, the problem may be solved. If not, it had better be fixed one way or another in 2025, if that really is the year they plan to "go all in". I said I'm fine with them using him this year, if they are retooling and don't really plan to compete but they've sent mixed messages. They don't want to go all in but they want to be competitive, whatever that means. As currently constituted, they are set up to be no more than the last WC at best if everything breaks their way. Not likely but hopefully the journey turns out to be an entertaining one. I said in my original post that my preference was Soler, a younger guy with power and the capability to hit for some average. At least someone of that ilk who can provide some lineup protection for Alonso. They are still woefully short on power.

[SinceThe70s]

10 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

"Signing an aging proven vet hitter to a high end contract" is exactly the opposite of what I meant by properly addressing the position. That is a stop gap, as were Ruf and Vogelbach. There was absolutely no excuse to have those two at DH last year on what was billed as a WS contender. None. That was a travesty and they were negligent in addressing the position. So, yeah, it was ignored. Maybe we don't actually disagree and it's just a matter of semantics, I don't know. Right now, Vientos is just Ruf and Vogelbach with position flexibility. If he turns in another near .205 year, then he is obviously not the solution. If he rakes then great, the problem may be solved. If not, it had better be fixed one way or another in 2025, if that really is the year they plan to "go all in". I said I'm fine with them using him this year, if they are retooling and don't really plan to compete but they've sent mixed messages. They don't want to go all in but they want to be competitive, whatever that means. As currently constituted, they are set up to be no more than the last WC at best if everything breaks their way. Not likely but hopefully the journey turns out to be an entertaining one. I said in my original post that my preference was Soler, a younger guy with power and the capability to hit for some average. At least someone of that ilk who can provide some lineup protection for Alonso. They are still woefully short on power.

 

Fair enough, you did mention Soler previously, but you also mentioned Turner as a two year stopgap, thus my question to you. I think my problem is I don't see DH as a position that needs a long term solution. And I have no interest in developing Vientos  (or anyone else for that matter) as a DH. Much easier to sign a proven vet that can't field.

 

My preference is to not have a guy that's designated as the designated hitter. Better if we we have enough depth and positional flexibility to decide who the DH is on game day. Only way I change that opinion is for a guy like David Ortiz or Edgar Martinez. I could be wrong, but I think those guys are rare.

[ExWNYer]

2 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Fair enough, you did mention Soler previously, but you also mentioned Turner as a two year stopgap, thus my question to you. I think my problem is I don't see DH as a position that needs a long term solution. And I have no interest in developing Vientos  (or anyone else for that matter) as a DH. Much easier to sign a proven vet that can't field.

 

My preference is to not have a guy that's designated as the designated hitter. Better if we we have enough depth and positional flexibility to decide who the DH is on game day. Only way I change that opinion is for a guy like David Ortiz or Edgar Martinez. I could be wrong, but I think those guys are rare.

 

I actually said, "Go out and at least sign a one or two year stop gap." This year would be the one year. Two would have more than likely been a team or player option to get someone like Turner or Martinez to sign. One year would have been my preference and then reset/reassess for 2025. It's not realistic to think that they will just constantly rotate and decide on game day. Nobody has it every day but it's standard for a guy to more or less hold it down like any other position. They plan on that guy being Vientos this year whether or not we like or agree with it and I'm sure Alvarez will get some ABs there on days he's not catching, as he should.

[SinceThe70s]

6 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

I actually said, "Go out and at least sign a one or two year stop gap." This year would be the one year. Two would have more than likely been a team or player option to get someone like Turner or Martinez to sign. One year would have been my preference and then reset/reassess for 2025. It's not realistic to think that they will just constantly rotate and decide on game day. Nobody has it every day but it's standard for a guy to more or less hold it down like any other position. They plan on that guy being Vientos this year whether or not we like or agree with it and I'm sure Alvarez will get some ABs there on days he's not catching, as he should.

 

JMO but a manager like Bobby Valentine would not only make the bolded realistic but help the team thrive. Hell, he did it without a DH. 

[ExWNYer]

1 minute ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

JMO but a manager like Bobby Valentine would not only make the bolded realistic but help the team thrive. Hell, he did it without a DH. 

 

And he did it over 20 years ago. For better or worse, the game has changed. Rotations and bullpens weren't handled the same as they are now either.

[SinceThe70s]

5 hours ago, ExWNYer said:

 

And he did it over 20 years ago. For better or worse, the game has changed. Rotations and bullpens weren't handled the same as they are now either.

 

Yikes. IMO bullpens these days are pretty much handled the same way he handled them - although obviously bullpens are taxed more these days.  But that aside I was referring to his use of positional players. His use of the rotation and  bullpen was entirely predictable (except for that time he left Leiter in an inning too long), his lineups not so much.  Which is kind of how analytics treat lineups these days - put the best lineup out there each night based on matchups. 

 

Edited February 4 by SinceThe70s

[ExWNYer]

6 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Yikes. IMO bullpens these days are pretty much handled the same way he handled them - although obviously bullpens are taxed more these days.  But that aside I was referring to his use of positional players. His use of the rotation and  bullpen was entirely predictable (except for that time he left Leiter in an inning too long), his lineups not so much.  Which is kind of how analytics treat lineups these days - put the best lineup out there each night based on matchups. 

 

 

I loved Bobby V. I'm not debating his managerial skills.

[SinceThe70s]

54 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

I loved Bobby V. I'm not debating his managerial skills.

 

Didn't think you were. All I've been suggesting is that I think with the right roster you don't necessarily need to use one roster spot solely for DH. I was using Bobby V as an example of a guy who I think could get the most out of the DH position in that scenario.

[ExWNYer]

3 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Didn't think you were. All I've been suggesting is that I think with the right roster you don't necessarily need to use one roster spot solely for DH. I was using Bobby V as an example of a guy who I think could get the most out of the DH position in that scenario.

 

Noted. We disagree on how to handle DH and that's fine.

[Another Fan]

23 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

@Gugny @ExWNYer @Another Fan

 

Looking forward to another season of talking baseball and most likely lamenting another lost season for the Mets. 

 

With spring training a few weeks off, thought I'd lamp it up a bit. As you may know my youngest loves playing baseball. He's a good player but a cut below the top players in our area. He missed the cut as a 7th grader and had his heart set on making the middle school team the following year but Covid cancelled the season. Long story short, he's a HS senior now and trying out for the first time since middle school. I've been taking him down to the local field to hit him ground balls and get him some swings in the batting cage. Good times for both of us. There's something special about having a catch with your son.

 

So was anything other than being a Mets fans for your son unacceptable?  Lol.

 

 

 

My Dad certainly played a part in me liking the Mets.  And the Bills for that matter.  He was a big Met fan since the start of the team in 1962 and I have fond memories of watching the games on Channel 9 UPN with him as a kid listening to Ralph Kiner.

 

 

As I'm approaching middle age now the Mets are one of the safe topics if you will my Dad and I touch on.  Hell, in all our conversations over the years the Mets are probably the #1 topic we've touched on.  I'll just stay there's other things going on in the world we might disagree upon but the Mets are always a safe topic if you will.  He's not nearly the fan that he used to be but he's still interested in them for better or worse.  

[ExWNYer]

3 minutes ago, Another Fan said:

So was anything other than being a Mets fans for your son unacceptable?  Lol.

 

 

 

My Dad certainly played a part in me liking the Mets.  And the Bills for that matter.  He was a big Met fan since the start of the team in 1962 and I have fond memories of watching the games on Channel 9 UPN with him as a kid listening to Ralph Kiner.

 

 

As I'm approaching middle age now the Mets are one of the safe topics if you will my Dad and I touch on.  Hell, in all our conversations over the years the Mets are probably the #1 topic we've touched on.  I'll just stay there's other things going on in the world we might disagree upon but the Mets are always a safe topic if you will.  He's not nearly the fan that he used to be but he's still interested in them for better or worse.  

 

Did this change over the years? It was WOR back in the day. My dad was from Dunkirk and I grew up in WNY as a kid. My dad is the reason my brother & I grew up as Bills and Sabres fans. He wasn't really into baseball but became a Mets fan in the '80s because of my brother and me. We were in Virginia by then (his job took us here). That was the infancy of cable and we had WOR for the Mets games and could also see them play the Cubs on WGN and the Braves on TBS. Those games were all televised over cable, if your subscription included those channels. Those were the days. In any event, I always thought it was cool that not only did our dad influence our choice in sports teams but we also influenced his. RIP, Dad.

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, ExWNYer said:

 

Noted. We disagree on how to handle DH and that's fine.

 

TBH, I think both approaches are fine depending on the roster make up and who's available. For this Mets team I like the DH by committee route but that may be in part because I'm scarred by Ruf/Vogie. 

39 minutes ago, Another Fan said:

So was anything other than being a Mets fans for your son unacceptable?  Lol.

 

 

 

My Dad certainly played a part in me liking the Mets.  And the Bills for that matter.  He was a big Met fan since the start of the team in 1962 and I have fond memories of watching the games on Channel 9 UPN with him as a kid listening to Ralph Kiner.

 

 

As I'm approaching middle age now the Mets are one of the safe topics if you will my Dad and I touch on.  Hell, in all our conversations over the years the Mets are probably the #1 topic we've touched on.  I'll just stay there's other things going on in the world we might disagree upon but the Mets are always a safe topic if you will.  He's not nearly the fan that he used to be but he's still interested in them for better or worse.  

 

I never pushed the Bills on my kids, I figured since we are out of market that wasn't fair to them. I'm thrilled that they chose them anyway. But when it comes to baseball the line I used was "You can root for any baseball team you want - as long as it's the Mets".