afrodziak Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 ECSCU is all about the mother, they really could care less about the father. . 330584[/snapback] This used to be what i thought until i came across several people (women) complaining that the father is sending the payments and they arent coming to her. and sometimes when they do they are months later. The husband shows the stubs where it is taken right out of his paycheck and they take months to figure out why she didnt get it - not just one person, this was on a site where they were saying it was a common occurrance. Actually it is the reason i decided to see if anyone on this board had similar experience. I didnt expect to be on here defending my very existance against a bunch of (probably) hypocritical Bill O'Reilly types! LOL Before anyone starts asking, i think this is the link http://issuesny.tripod.com/home/id53.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrodziak Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 This thread is an argument for waiting until marriage and then staying married come hell or high water... 330633[/snapback] AMEN brother! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 My twin daughters are "pill" babies. Apparently that brand wasn't strong enough to prevent ovulation. I also have a "condom" son, a "condom" daughter and a "rythym method" son. 330493[/snapback] Does that make the Rhythm method twice as good as condoms and 4 times better than the "pill". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 i don't get the hostility towards this guy. he isn't cheating anyone No crap. He's not complaining about having to pay, in fact he's doing what a lot of other people simply don't bother to do. If he was complaining about having to pay I'd understand the hostility. He's not complaining about his kids. He's not complaining about his kid's moms - he's complaining about the screwups in county government. Disagree with him all you want, but it's not like he's teaching his kids how to download movies off the internet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Disagree with him all you want, but it's not like he's teaching his kids how to download movies off the internet.... 330835[/snapback] And after that person got shut off by their ISP for downloading copyright material... they still wouldn't admit what they did was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 AMEN brother! LOL 330723[/snapback] Actually, that reply tells you all you need to know about how seriously he takes creating kids that will start at a serious disadvantage by growing up without stability. That is why some of us are "LOL" at your predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 This thread is an argument for waiting until marriage and then staying married come hell or high water... 330633[/snapback] It's true, I've never had to deal with those kinds of issues. Three more years and the last one is finished with college. Afro was more responsible than some, some guys just disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 And after that person got shut off by their ISP for downloading copyright material... they still wouldn't admit what they did was wrong. is that for real??? TL - is that the case? If so, that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrodziak Posted May 7, 2005 Author Share Posted May 7, 2005 Actually, that reply tells you all you need to know about how seriously he takes creating kids that will start at a serious disadvantage by growing up without stability. That is why some of us are "LOL" at your predicament. 330851[/snapback] NOT. My sons have an incredibly healthy and stable life and any disadvantages they may face in the future will definitely not be a result of the fact that their parents were not married. Grow up and move out of the 50's Beaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyLee Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 is that for real??? TL - is that the case? If so, that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. 330863[/snapback] Keep dreaming . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 NOT.My sons have an incredibly healthy and stable life and any disadvantages they may face in the future will definitely not be a result of the fact that their parents were not married. Grow up and move out of the 50's Beaver. 330950[/snapback] All the research shows that children have a huge advantage if they grow up in a stable household with good role models. I hope your kids are a wonderful exception, but if I were you, I would think about cutting back on the aphrodisiac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyLee Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 All the research shows that children have a huge advantage if they grow up in a stable household with good role models. I hope your kids are a wonderful exception, but if I were you, I would think about cutting back on the aphrodisiac. 330969[/snapback] What makes you think that they're not in a stable household with good role models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 All the research shows that children have a huge advantage if they grow up in a stable household with good role models. I hope your kids are a wonderful exception, but if I were you, I would think about cutting back on the aphrodisiac. 330969[/snapback] If I was him -- I would stop looking for more dates as well.... Give afrodziak a call LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 By and large, Afro is right. But there is a larger issue here. This is a post about corruption in county government. My question is, what's happening to the money that doesn't get to the mothers? If I had to assume, it would be one of two things: 1) someone high up in this agency is treating this like it's their own personal piggy bank, which wouldn't surprise me, or 2) more likely, the money is being lost through inefficiency, inertia, and horrid bookkeeping. This is why new people have to be elected, and HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I don't care if they're Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative, or Martian, just GET THE JOB DONE!! Let the County Executive know what's going on. If no one seems to care, become a burr in their saddle. The right thing is not often the easy thing. And as far as condom use/birth control is concerned, I believe in both. Wholeheartedly. And I'm a devout Christian. My wife and I have been using birth control for our whole marriage, and we don't have any kids. But things are changing now. I'll let you know when/if we have a bun in the oven. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 All the research shows that children have a huge advantage if they grow up in a stable household with good role models. I hope your kids are a wonderful exception, but if I were you, I would think about cutting back on the aphrodisiac. 330969[/snapback] This thread which basically is about parenting and the idiocy that happens when the government ends up acting in the roles of parents in some way. First, my own bias is that I describe myself and my lovely wife as decidely childless. I count my lucky stars that within a few months of beginning our relationship, my wife to be (we were about a decade away from deciding to get married actually) and I were shooting the breeze and one of us (we think it was me) remarked that I fully expected to have kids when I was married, but basically because it would be a wonderful thing to share with my wife. However, left to my own devices I really had no desire to raise kids. The other person said, yeah they felt the same way, fully expected to have kids but really had no personal drive to do so. End of that part of the convesation as it moved on to discussion of schoolwork (we were in college at the time), some party planned for that weekend, the weather or some other critical topic. Fast forward to roughly seven years later and my lovely wife to be raised the issue again. She asked if I remembered a conversation we had way back when that included both of us having no overwhelming desire to raise kids. I said yeah, sure do! By that time we obviously were headed toward a life together and though I did not remember the details, I sure remembered that neither of us were overwhelmingly invested in parenting. She asked if I still felt the same way. I said yeah, sure do! End of conversation but I realized at that point what a gift our earlier conversation had been. I have a few friends who desperately want or wanted to conceive their own child with their life partner, but due to genetics and/or the toxic soup our society creates for us to live in, it ain't happenin. It really is an incredibly tough thing to want kids with you life partner and to be not able to successfully conceive. However, as tough and horrible as this twist of fate is, it is a real tragedy beyond this horror for a kid to be born who is unwanted by the parents or when the parents cannot really care for and nurture the child. Folks seem to be generally biased toward life, but i know I'm not. Don't get me wrong. I choose life for me and I think life is great and beats the alternatives by a longshot. However, i am under no illusion that life is just a bowl of cherries and feel that choosing life also means choosing certain obligations which go along with this choice. It's fine with me if folks are of the opinon that we should always choose life. However, I am not of the mind that life begins at conception but ends at birth. If one chooses life, then one chooses a whole bunch of obligations which come along with it from pre-natal care, to childbirth support, to schooling, parental support, etcetra. I think to the extent folks are pro-choice and leave it up to the individual to choose whether to bring a life into this world, then fine, they are taking on an obligation to care for, protect and raise this kid until the kid can protect themselves. If we as a society choose to not have government suport these activities of schooling, parentingsupport, etcetera then we darn well better not have government insert themselves into the decision about whether to carry forward the pregnancy or not. However, I think it is fine if we choose as a body politic to have government insert its iron hand into the birth process and demand that all conceptions be carried through to birth. However, if we make this choice, we have taken on an obligation to choose life that only ends when life ends. The logical and human thing to me is that if one chooses to be what is called by many Pro-Life, you also are choosing to support governmental activities (government is how we play well together as a country and municipalities as though religious institutions often provide great care, our society is not based on endorsement of any one religion, so religious institutions cannot be the centerpiece of guranteeing equal care for all children, it clearly has a role but is simply not the centerpiece) to support life because there is life after birth. This also relates to the specific question which started this thread. Government and Erie County are clearly idiots when it comes to raising kids (anyone who wants to claim they havethis child raising thing down pat and there are never moments of idiocy involved with their parenting please raise your hands). However, there is a simple solution for the guy who started this thread. If you don't want Erie County involved then do not go to Erie County for support of any type. If the mother of your children chose to belly up to the government bar to get support that she needed while she continued her education, while she was laid low by illness, or simply so she would not throw her kid out the window at some point (a feeling which I perceive from afar is something all parents -even good people- feel at some point but fortunately most do not act on this feeling) i support this. I think that we as a society have an obligation not toward these parents who are on welfare or cannot control their johnson, but for the kids. I'd much rather have Mom get governmental support, spiritual institution support, not-for-profit support for their parenting rather than see their kid tortured. However, if a parent feels that the government folks are idiots. THEN DO NOT BELLY UP TO THE GOVERNMENT TROUGH. I must admit I have little sympathy for the guy who started this thread because the mother of his child and he should never have gone to the government for support and have an expectation that its all going to be smooth and without idiocy. This does not excuse their idiocy and the system needs advocacy and correcting, I am with you on that and will support you as a taxpayer. HOWEVER, I THINK IT IS FLAT OUT STUPID FOR YOU TO GET INCENSED OR ALL HIGH AND MIGHTY ABOUT THIS. You did not give up your right to ask (or even demand but the requirement for you to be sensitive, detailed and rational goes up when you demand) that it work well or at least better. However, what you gave up when you and the mother had the kid and went to the government is your right to be pissed about it. There are a lot of other issues for example the mother having a greater right than the Dad over these issues because there is that little difference that you gave sperm in pleasure and she has to carry around the kid inside of her for months. However, the fact you never formed a life bond with the Mother (s) of you child (ren) further diminishes the legitimacy of you being pissed about anything. One of the main gifts I have gotten from being decidely childless is that I take childraising seriously but from a disttance. My sense is that I wholeheatedly agree with you that Erie County government folks and the beaureauacy are idiots whne if come to parenting. However, it strikes me that as a non-present parent who brought a child into the world you have ZERO you can be legitimately pissed about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 I don't know how much it affects this particular incident because much of this occurred some time ago, but with thedeep fiscal problems Erie County has, and the massive layoffs in just about every department, including social services, people sure aren't going to ber getting much individual attention. If people were just a number before, it's only going to be worse now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFaninNC Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 My sense is that I wholeheatedly agree with you that Erie County government folks and the beaureauacy are idiots whne if come to parenting. However, it strikes me that as a non-present parent who brought a child into the world you have ZERO you can be legitimately pissed about. 331027[/snapback] That was one of the best thought out posts I've seen on this board. Bravo! And I commend you and your wife for NOT having kids for the sake of having them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyLee Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 If you don't want Erie County involved then do not go to Erie County for support of any type. 331027[/snapback] Sometimes a parent gets forced into dealing with ECSCU through no fault of her/her own. My husband's ex took him to court (she takes him to court for everything) for the sole reason of having his check garnished through the support collection unit. She claimed that mail delivery was unreliable. He fought it. She won. Now she bitches because her payments from ECSCU are erratic. LOL. In my case, my ex didn't want to have money issues between us so he elected on his own to go through EC rather then hand me a check every week, and I've never had any problems. None of the four of us has ever been on the dole or "bellied up to the trough". In Erie County Family Court, the option of using ECSCU is always encouraged. If the mother wants to use it, the court will usually side with her against the fathers objections. That's just the way it goes in family court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Dude... I've got zero sympathy for you. You get what you deserve. Who the hell do you think you are that you can go around and make babies out of wedlock, #1, and #2 not be able to support the kid(s) thereafter. You're an excellent example of what our society has become. A bunch of losers that think there are zero consequences for whatever they do. Bottom line.... we reap what we sew. You made your bed.... be a man an lay in it. Do the right thing. If you've got to work six jobs, so what... your kids don't deserve to suffer because of your stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kegtapr Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 What makes you think that they're not in a stable household with good role models? 330992[/snapback] Yeah, it's not like they're living at TracyLee's house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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