The difference between J.P. and Bledsoe

[Buffalo_Stampede]

You're right.  Thye are building the offense around WM and providing him with a bunch of his old buddies from The U so that when WM's contract is up, TD will have leverage b/c all of his "buddies" will be still under contract.

321831[/snapback]

 

Im not worried about Willis leaving. You can Tag RB's without killing your cap. I think he will hold out after this year if he has a top 5 season, but I dont think we would lose him. Atleast not for nothing.

[obie_wan]

The problem is they don't respect our line.  You want to burn a blitzing defense?  Pick up the blitz often enough to make them regret it.  A good scrambler might make a play now and then but unless he is Michael Vick, defensive coordinators are not losing sleep over a quarterback's "mobility".

321890[/snapback]

 

you beat the blitz by hitting a big play.

 

The QB must quickly identify the blitz and then quickly get rid of the ball to a player in position to make a big play. (Parrish running a slant from the slot)

 

Drew was incapable of doing anything quickly, so he failed miserably at both identifying the blitz and deciding where to go with the ball. Consequently, defenses had no fear of blitzing to stop both the run and the pass because Drew presented absolutely no risk of burning them with a big play.

 

Even though a rookie, Losman can not produce any worse than Drew.

[Fezmid]

The QB must quickly identify the blitz and then quickly get rid of the ball to a player in position to make a big play. (Parrish running a slant from the slot)

 

WRONG!

 

The QB *AND* receiver need to identify the blitz and get into position to make the play. On numerous occasions Bledsoe identified the blitz, but the receiver was streaking down the field instead of cutting his route short. On numerous occasions, Bledsoe threw to the receiver who wasn't even expecting the ball because HE didn't identify the blitz. Yes, on numerous occasions the QB missed the blitz as well. But it's NOT all on the QB.

 

Even though a rookie, Losman can not produce any worse than Drew.

 

Neither can Steve's grandmother, right?

CW

[VABills]

because Drew presented absolutely no risk of burning them with a big play.

 

Even though a rookie, Losman can not produce any worse than Drew.

321947[/snapback]

He isn't a rookie, and you want bet on that. Take a look around the league there are scores of Qb's much worse then Bledsoe.

[obie_wan]

He isn't a rookie, and you want bet on that.  Take a look around the league there are scores of Qb's much worse then Bledsoe.

321954[/snapback]

 

The QBs may actually be worse than Drew from a name recognition standpoint, but it's production that counts.

 

Even with mistakes from in-experience, JP will produce no worse than Drew - even though the coaches were forced to dumb down the offense for Drew.

[Fezmid]

The QBs may actually be worse than Drew from a name recognition standpoint, but it's production that counts.

 

Even with mistakes from in-experience, JP will produce no worse than Drew - even though the coaches were forced to dumb down the offense for Drew.

321966[/snapback]

 

[RuntheDamnBall]

The problem is they don't respect our line.  You want to burn a blitzing defense?  Pick up the blitz often enough to make them regret it.  A good scrambler might make a play now and then but unless he is Michael Vick, defensive coordinators are not losing sleep over a quarterback's "mobility".

321890[/snapback]

If we could run screens it would go a long way toward thwarting the blitz as well.

 

The Pats kill 'em (us) with that one.

[VABills]

If we could run screens it would go a long way toward thwarting the blitz as well.

 

The Pats kill 'em (us) with that one.

321991[/snapback]

On this we agree. While Drew could throw the dump pass when he recognized trouble, he could not rely on Travis to always catch it. Now a screen on the other hand is a different animal, and while some of it is the lines inability to block properly, and Travis's inability to always catch it, Drew was horrible at the screen pass. Not sure why but he never aquired the touch needed. Maybe he flaked under the pressure that a QB sees from a blitz, I don't know but this is an element that noone on our team, RB, line or Qb was able to really run properly.

[RuntheDamnBall]

On this we agree.  While Drew could throw the dump pass when he recognized trouble, he could not rely on Travis to always catch it.  Now a screen on the other hand is a different animal, and while some of it is the lines inability to block properly, and Travis's inability to always catch it, Drew was horrible at the screen pass.  Not sure why but he never aquired the touch needed.  Maybe he flaked under the pressure that a QB sees from a blitz, I don't know but this is an element that noone on our team, RB, line or Qb was able to really run properly.

321998[/snapback]

True. It got to the point where a successful screen pass merited a "Hallelujah" over the past couple seasons. Hopefully these guys are working on their "execution" -- a term I hope I won't have to hear too much during the season these next few years.

 

And conversely, how many times have we paid by blitzing and getting burned by the screen? Hopefully Gray has figured out for next season that the Patriots seem to do that pretty well

[Mickey]

you beat the blitz by hitting a big play.

 

The QB must quickly identify the blitz and then quickly get rid of the ball to a player in position to make a big play. (Parrish running a slant from the slot)

 

Drew was incapable of doing anything quickly, so he failed miserably at both identifying the blitz and deciding where to go with the ball. Consequently, defenses had no fear of blitzing to stop both the run and the pass because Drew presented absolutely no risk of burning them with a big play.

 

Even though a rookie, Losman can not produce any worse than Drew.

321947[/snapback]

I think our tendency to gain zero or next to zero yards on first down has more to do with defenses blitzing us than their belief that Drew wouldn't make him pay. Most blitzes are called because of the down and distance situation. You will see a lot more blitzes on 2nd and 9 than you will see on 2nd and 5 no matter who the QB is.

 

If an unblocked blitzer comes through the line, no QB on the planet is going make a big play unless he makes that guy miss. Granted, JP will do that more than Drew but not enough to radically change the performance of the offense. Brady is a good example. Teams don't refrain from blitzing the Pats because he has lightening quick feet or makes amazingly quick reads. They don't like to blitz him because his line gives him just enough time to burn the defense. The fact that the Patriots don't end up in a lot of 2nd and 13 or 3rd and 9 situations also helps.

 

I think Drew's lack of mobility was a scapegoat. Sure it was a problem but there are lots and lots of slow footed QB's in this league. That fact alone didn't make us the 26th ranked offense or whatever it was. Drew's having cement feet is just such an easy problem to identify that people focus on it to the exclusion of all else.

 

Mobility is always nice but take a look at the QB's who win Super Bowls, they do it with their arm and more often than not, a good running game. Not many running plays outside of bootlegs succeed or fail based on the QB's 40 time.

 

I'm sorry but I am old school on this one. I have yet to see an offensive system that didn't require blocking people to succeed whether the QB was Houdini reborn or a lump of lead. If JP takes us to the promised land, it will be with his arm. Good feet will be nice but QB's get into the Hall of Fame with their arms, not their legs.

[Mickey]

If we could run screens it would go a long way toward thwarting the blitz as well.

 

The Pats kill 'em (us) with that one.

321991[/snapback]

I agree with that, we are terrible at screens. Certainly DB was to blame in large part for that but screens require more than just a good touch to succeed. You have to fool the defense and if you don't, they are done. They are too easy to break up since there is no interference in the backfield. A DT can maul the RB as long as he is behind the line. Your lineman have to get out infront of the screen fast enough to make a difference and they have to at least manage to get in someone's way. The back needs to manage to get in the flat without tripping over someone and to make a catch in traffic and then be able to get upfield in a hurry before the defense reacts. When you are facing a defense with 8 guys in the box, even if they are blitzing, there will still be a defender close enough to make the tackle on a screen, there are just too many defenders close to the line which is where a screen pass happens. Screens are complicated plays which is what makes them so pretty when they work.

 

Here is something I don't know. JP has a strong arm and nimble feet. He is competetive, fearless and creative. That is if you believe all the best things that are said of him which I do. What I don't recall ever hearing is that he has a great touch on screens where you have to make off balance throws in traffic that have to be in a certain spot to give the RB a chance to start running quickly and make a move. What is the basis for believing that JP is a great screen pass guy other than his quick feet? I'd love to read some articles that talk about him having that skill, it would allay some of my fears for this season.

[obie_wan]

I think our tendency to gain zero or next to zero yards on first down has more to do with defenses blitzing us than their belief that Drew wouldn't make him pay.  Most blitzes are called because of the down and distance situation.  You will see a lot more blitzes on 2nd and 9 than you will see on 2nd and 5 no matter who the QB is.

 

If an unblocked blitzer comes through the line, no QB on the planet is going make a big play unless he makes that guy miss.  Granted, JP will do that more than Drew but not enough to radically change the performance of the offense.  Brady is a good example.  Teams don't refrain from blitzing the Pats because he has lightening quick feet or makes amazingly quick reads.  They don't like to blitz him because his line gives him just enough time to burn the defense.  The fact that the Patriots don't end up in a lot of 2nd and 13 or 3rd and 9 situations also helps. 

 

I think Drew's lack of mobility was a scapegoat.  Sure it was a problem but there are lots and lots of slow footed QB's in this league.  That fact alone didn't make us the 26th ranked offense or whatever it was.  Drew's having cement feet is just such an easy problem to identify that people focus on it to the exclusion of all else.   

 

Mobility is always nice but take a look at the QB's who win Super Bowls, they do it with their arm and more often than not, a good running game.  Not many running plays outside of bootlegs succeed or fail based on the QB's 40 time. 

 

I'm sorry but I am old school on this one.  I have yet to see an offensive system that didn't require blocking people to succeed whether the QB was Houdini reborn or a lump of lead.  If JP takes us to the promised land, it will be with his arm.  Good feet will be nice but QB's get into the Hall of Fame with their arms, not their legs.

322058[/snapback]

 

 

Drew's lack of mobility was not the problem. The bigger problem was Drew's horrible decision making.

 

Although you are right that most defenses don't risk blitzing on 1st down, this did not stop teams opposing the Bills from selling out with the blitz on all downs because the reward far exceeded the risk of being burned by the big play.

[Mickey]

The QBs may actually be worse than Drew from a name recognition standpoint, but it's production that counts.

 

Even with mistakes from in-experience, JP will produce no worse than Drew - even though the coaches were forced to dumb down the offense for Drew.

321966[/snapback]

What do you base this opinion on when it comes to what JP will do? I know he looked great against Northwestern State and TCU but as far as his professional experience goes, he hasn't played a game. What is this based on since it certainly isn't actual performance?

[Mickey]

Drew's lack of mobility was not the problem. The bigger problem was Drew's horrible decision making.

 

Although you are right that most defenses don't risk blitzing on 1st down, this did not stop teams opposing the Bills from selling out with the blitz on all downs because the reward far exceeded the risk of being burned by the big play.

322461[/snapback]

We didn't get blitzed every down. In fact, one of our problems was the pressure teams could apply with only 4 guys. Generally teams loaded up the box on first down gambling that we would run, we usually did and usually got zip. On second down, that is when they teed it up.

 

There is no question that on occasion Drew made a bad decision but if you look at the film game by game, play by play you will see that very few sacks were the result of Drew failing to see someone wide open and whom he had plenty of time to see. There were sacks where someone just totally blew a block, there were sacks where there was a major blitz and the WR didn't read it and there were sacks where Drew just couldn't bring himself to throw it away. There were lots of culprits. We may have solved the Drew problem but we didn't solve all the problems of this offense in one fell swoop by replacing one guy.

 

Mike Williams needs to start playing up to his salary and McNally needs to do some major work if he is to prevent the disaster that is lurking on the left side.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Here are a few more differences:

 

NFL Starts: DB-171, JP-0

NFL TD Passes: DB-221, JP-0

NFL Completions: DB-3,449  JP-3

 

We are all excited about JP and hope for the best but the reality is that he is a big fat question mark.

 

I don't really think the offense in terms of design is going to be all that different this year at all.  The plan last year was to move the ball on the ground and once McGahee was starting, that became even more of a priority.  Does anyone think that is going to change all that much this year?  We are still going to run first, pass second.  Sure, JP is more nimble than DB but I went through every college game he played a while back and posted it all.  Its not like he didn't get sacked plenty, especially on third and long.  Something tells me that we aren't going to stop trying to improve our pass protection simply because we have a QB with more mobility.

 

What you can do with JP is roll him out a bit more and run some bootlegs or QB draws now and then.  Also, he will scramble and run for a first down or hit a pass after the play has broken down.  That kind of thing is not by design so I don't think the playbook is going to change on that account at all.

 

We are not going to ride into the playoffs on bootlegs and QB draws.  We still need to run the ball effectively, especially on third down and we need improved pass protection.  There were way too many sacks last year where DB got hit before he could draw a breath.

 

I think people are investing the word "mobility" with almost magical properties.  Realistically, you have a QB with zero NFL starts and a suspect offensive line that just lost arguably its best player.

321886[/snapback]

 

 

But, but, but he's not a statue....

 

Very well said, not to rain on anyones parade cause as fans we all want to see the Bills have success, but it seems people are penciling in losman as can't miss no doubt about it blue chip franchise quaterback, when the fact is we really know nothing about JP at the nfl level.

 

From what I know about him in college yes he has mobility but he also was sacked repeatedly especially on 3rd a long. I believe Evans and Parrish will help in this regard as well as everett and a solid running game. We will not be a passing team. If we are we'll fall by the wayside of JP Losman. JP is raw and doesn't have his feet wet at the pro level. To say he's an "automatic upgrade" over Bledsoe is unfounded propoganda by the dead horse beaters club. We know Bledsoe had his limitations, but we know nothing about JP. To say an essential rookie and thats basically what he is in terms of playing experience is better than a 12 year starter is too overly optomistic

 

 

The coaching staff knew we weren't gonna win with Bledsoe, but we're also not about to win games because of Losman we'll win games with the strength of our running game and our defense and st's. Losman will have game plan suited around his strengths that doesn't ask him to win games, just not make any mistakes.... sound familiar?

 

Still though I hope for the best, that JP is the 2nd coming of Favre/Elway/Marino/Young/Montana etc etc all rolled into one and sets the world on fire, but as I've always stated I don't give a flying poop about who starts at qb for the Bills as long as the Bills are successful thats all that really matters.

[kota]

JP better not turn into Michael Vick that is my only hope. Vick is highlight reel but he doesn't make the people around him better.

 

A true leader will make the people around him play harder and better. I think JP has the ego and the swagger to do this. My biggest problem with Bledsoe is that i never saw him yell at his guys on the field or the sidelines. When Moulds dropped a easy pass Bledsoe should have been all over his ass. Jim Kelley and Reed used to get into shouting matches all the time on the sidelines. This past year Manning got into a little shoving match with his receiver. I saw Brady chewing out Deon Branch after he ran the wrong route.

 

JP seems to have the talent and the drive to succeed in the NFL. I just hope his desire to succeed doesn't push him into trying to do everything on offense. JP needs to be the leader but also lean on his teammates to get the job done. I don't want JP running all over the field like Vick because he will only get hurt. Let WM do the running and let JP throw the ball out of the pocket with the occasional bootleg.

[stuckincincy]

But, but, but he's not a statue....

 

Very well said,  not to rain on anyones parade cause as fans we all want to see the Bills have success, but it seems people are penciling in losman as can't miss no doubt about it blue chip franchise quaterback, when the fact is we really know nothing about JP at the nfl level.

 

From what I know about him in college yes he has mobility but he also was sacked repeatedly especially on 3rd a long.  I believe Evans and Parrish will help in this regard as well as everett and a solid running game.  We will not be a passing team.  If we are we'll fall by the wayside of JP Losman.  JP is raw and doesn't have his feet wet at the pro level.  To say he's an "automatic upgrade" over Bledsoe is unfounded propoganda by the dead horse beaters club.  We know Bledsoe had his limitations, but we know nothing about JP.  To say an essential rookie and thats basically what he is in terms of playing experience is better than a 12 year starter is too overly optomistic

The coaching staff knew we weren't gonna win with Bledsoe, but we're also not about to win games because of Losman we'll win games with the strength of our running game and our defense and st's. Losman will have game plan suited around his strengths that doesn't ask him to win games, just not make any mistakes.... sound familiar? 

 

Still though I hope for the best, that JP is the 2nd coming of Favre/Elway/Marino/Young/Montana etc etc all rolled into one and sets the world on fire, but  as I've always stated I don't give a flying poop about who starts at qb for the Bills as long as the Bills are successful thats all that really matters.

322532[/snapback]

 

Well put. Can't argue with a realistic view.

[John from Riverside]

I still say that we are not going to rely on JP Losman winning games for us near as much as some people think.....

 

We are going to use our offensive formations to dictate to the defense that they not stack the box....and we are going to use Willis M. like the fricken workhorse he is.......

 

Losman's passes will come off of playaction

[stuckincincy]

I still say that we are not going to rely on JP Losman winning games for us near as much as some people think.....

 

We are going to use our offensive formations to dictate to the defense that they not stack the box....and we are going to use Willis M. like the fricken workhorse he is.......

 

Losman's passes will come off of playaction

322557[/snapback]

 

Yep - nothing like a good (and flexible) game plan...

 

BTW - been outta town? Didn't see a post from you during the High Holidays (the draft).

[John from Riverside]

I gotta couple in there.....but between little girls softball games, sons weight training sessions, family barbeques, etc etc etc......it was few and far between.....

 

But I was readin them......