Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

First I think Japan should apologize.  Just as the vatican has apologized for not helping the Jewish community during WWII.  But I hope no one thinks that Japan is the only country to whitewash their history in their favor.

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I don't think any reasonable person would argue that (though I can think of quite a few unreasonable ones that would.)

 

But at the same time, you don't see anyone here denying that My Lai or the Indian Wars ever happened. Despite the term, there are shades of "whitewashing".

[IDBillzFan]

Who cares if Japan and China nuke each other.  It would force American union workers to actually do a honest day's work.

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Not to mention it would significantly reduce the number of slow drivers in the world.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I agree with that JSP, but one of the traits of their society is a profound sense of nationalism.  By all acounts, it's on the rise.

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And I don't think that's a bad thing, necessarily. We NEED a strong Japan as a counter-balance to China if for no other reason that we can't militarily afford dominance over the Western Pacific Rim.

 

I'd rather have a nationalistic and strong Japan than a needy, weak one.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The point being that according to the Japanese now, they never were to begin with!  That is the whole crux of Chinese and Korean anger, the consistent whitewashing of Japanese history by the Japanese.

 

And yet, even though the victims of genocidal atrocities sixty years ago should forget about it when the perpetrators whitewash events, the Vatican should be roundly pilloried for whitewashing the sexual depravity of a handful of priests?  Nice perspective, that...

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Look, I'm not saying that stuff didn't happen. The Japs were atrocious in their behavior during WWII. Everybody knows that. But how long should people who weren't even alive during that time period be made to pay?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Look, I'm not saying that stuff didn't happen. The Japs were atrocious in their behavior during WWII. Everybody knows that. But how long should people who weren't even alive during that time period be made to pay?

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I don't know. How long should we keep apologizing for Hiroshima? Or should we demand the Japanese keep apologizing for Pearl Harbor? Or should they continue to refuse to apologize for Pearl Harbor, for that matter?

 

And regardless...even if everyone involved in the atrocities is dead (unlikely, even at this late date), the fact that the Japanese continue to insist on feeding themselves a sanitized version of their own history where they can pretend these things didn't happen has as a root cause the same attitudes that led to the atrocities in the first place: the fundamental unwillingness to admit that anything they did was actually wrong. They wouldn't stand up to it then, and they won't do it now.

 

So yeah, I think a 20-year old Chinese person, looking at the current Japanese attitudes toward their wartime behavior and seeing something little different from their wartime attitude towards their behavior, probably has a valid excuse for a little moral outrage, and will continue to until the Japanese stand up (like the Germans have for the past 60 years) and admit "Yeah, we were right bastards during the war. Our bad." Doesn't mean I think they should pay reparations (any more than we, being six generations removed from slavery, should pay any to blacks), but if they can't even admit events happened, the root causes of those events haven't been addressed.

[beausox]

I don't know.  How long should we keep apologizing for Hiroshima?  Or should we demand the Japanese keep apologizing for Pearl Harbor?  Or should they continue to refuse to apologize for Pearl Harbor, for that matter? 

 

And regardless...even if everyone involved in the atrocities is dead (unlikely, even at this late date), the fact that the Japanese continue to insist on feeding themselves a sanitized version of their own history where they can pretend these things didn't happen has as a root cause the same attitudes that led to the atrocities in the first place: the fundamental unwillingness to admit that anything they did was actually wrong.  They wouldn't stand up to it then, and they won't do it now. 

 

So yeah, I think a 20-year old Chinese person, looking at the current Japanese attitudes toward their wartime behavior and seeing something little different from their wartime attitude towards their behavior, probably has a valid excuse for a little moral outrage, and will continue to until the Japanese stand up (like the Germans have for the past 60 years) and admit "Yeah, we were right bastards during the war.  Our bad."  Doesn't mean I think they should pay reparations (any more than we, being six generations removed from slavery, should pay any to blacks), but if they can't even admit events happened, the root causes of those events haven't been addressed.

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Prior to WWI apologies for war were that you paid for your transgression in cash or land. No apology needed. Might made right. That may be due to the fact that most wars were dynastic or Imperial . As such they did not have to "sell" the war to the people as 20th century democracies have to. The good news is that to date I cannot think of when two democracies has gone to war against one another. The bad news is that not every nation is a democracy

[nobody]

I don't know.  How long should we keep apologizing for Hiroshima?  Or should we demand the Japanese keep apologizing for Pearl Harbor?  Or should they continue to refuse to apologize for Pearl Harbor, for that matter? 

 

 

Hiroshima? Never happened. The glorious US flew a plane over Japan with a banner saying "surrender now!" and the cowardly japanese were so frigtened that they threw their weapons into the sea.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Prior to WWI apologies for war were that you paid for your transgression in cash or land. No apology needed. Might made right. That may be due to the fact that most wars were dynastic or Imperial . As such they did not have to "sell" the war to the people as 20th century democracies have to. The good news is that to date I cannot think of when two democracies has  gone to war against one another. The bad news is that not every nation is a democracy

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War reparations were (and are) an implicit admission of culpability. An "apology" would be explicit. Either way, the Japanese consistently provide neither, and in doing so routinely deny any wrongdoing or atrocities committed...which is part of my point.

 

And in saying that, I didn't mean to imply anything anti-Catholic, so don't get your panties in a bunch please...

[beausox]

War reparations were (and are) an implicit admission of culpability.  An "apology" would be explicit.  Either way, the Japanese consistently provide neither, and in doing so routinely deny any wrongdoing or atrocities committed...which is part of my point.

 

And in saying that, I didn't mean to imply anything anti-Catholic, so don't get your panties in a bunch please...

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In WWII what reparations were there? Indeed what is the name of the treaty we signed with Germany? In Japans case MacArthur wrote their constitution. This may be because we demanded unconditional surrender( and Hiroshima was proof of our resolve). As such no apology asked; no apology given. Japan is "different " from the German situation because it was done by American diktat and Allied Sectors were not a question because Russia took 45 years to vacate!

[Campy]

In WWII what reparations were there? Indeed what is the name of the treaty we signed with Germany? In Japans case MacArthur wrote their constitution. This may be because we demanded unconditional surrender( and Hiroshima was proof of our resolve). As such no apology asked; no apology given. Japan is "different " from the German situation because it was done by American diktat and Allied Sectors were not a question because Russia took 45 years to vacate!

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I don't think anybody claimed there were reparations made after WWII.

 

The reparations forced upon Germany after WWI (combined with out of control Japanese, and to a lesser degree Italian, nationalism) are what caused WWII. Wilson's "Peace without Victory" was considered to be too soft by Great Britian and France (and the Netherlands, but they weren't nearly as passionate in their beliefs), and led directly to WWII.

 

After WWII, the Allies took a look back at history and realized that reparations continued the war in the eyes of the vanquished and decided they would take a more pro-active role in helping them rebuild as a nation. This not only provided fiduciary benefits to the Allies, but allowed them to foster trust and forge alliances with their former enemies, both in Japan and Germany.

 

When Japan was pushing for a seat on the UN Security Council a few years back, they did own up to torturing and abusing US POWs, but that's as close as they've ever come to acknowledging being anything but "honorable" defenders of their empire as far as I'm aware of.

[beausox]

I don't think anybody claimed there were reparations made after WWII.

 

The reparations forced upon Germany after WWI (combined with out of control Japanese, and to a lesser degree Italian, nationalism) are what caused WWII.  Wilson's "Peace without Victory" was considered to be too soft by Great Britian and France (and the Netherlands, but they weren't nearly as passionate in their beliefs), and led directly to WWII.

 

After WWII, the Allies took a look back at history and realized that reparations continued the war in the eyes of the vanquished and decided they would take a more pro-active role in helping them rebuild as a nation.  This not only provided fiduciary benefits to the Allies, but allowed them to foster trust and forge alliances with their former enemies, both in Japan and Germany.

 

When Japan was pushing for a seat on the UN Security Council a few years back, they did own up to torturing and abusing US POWs, but that's as close as they've ever come to acknowledging being anything but "honorable" defenders of their empire as far as I'm aware of.

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England and France lost nearly 4 million dead in a causus belli they were complicit. Lloyd George and Clemenceau were in need of a scapegoat and thus insisted upon German war guilt. It was the first time in European history such a demand was made.

As for Japan i do not know.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

In WWII what reparations were there? Indeed what is the name of the treaty we signed with Germany? In Japans case MacArthur wrote their constitution. This may be because we demanded unconditional surrender( and Hiroshima was proof of our resolve). As such no apology asked; no apology given. Japan is "different " from the German situation because it was done by American diktat and Allied Sectors were not a question because Russia took 45 years to vacate!

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What part of anything I said was equivalent to "War reparations were paid out for WWII"? It would be much easier to discuss things with you if you comprehended what you read and in turn made yourself comprehensible.

[beausox]

What part of anything I said was equivalent to "War reparations were paid out for WWII"?  It would be much easier to discuss things with you if you comprehended what you read and in turn made yourself comprehensible. 

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The first two questions were rhetorical. They were my questions. They did not come from your text. It seems you should take some of your own advice. Apparently I overestimated your intellect

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Apparently I overestimated your intellect

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No, just yours.