The laughable folly of abstinence education

[Alaska Darin]

Clinton signed an abstinence pledge? 

 

Or are you saying that kids who sign abstinence pledges lean more towards the thinking of him over someone more conservative?

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He didn't sign one, he took an oath to his wife and broke it by not having "sex" with another woman. You can choose to ignore the signal it sent to the youth of America if you want.

[nobody]

He didn't sign one, he took an oath to his wife and broke it by not having "sex" with another woman.  You can choose to ignore the signal it sent to the youth of America if you want.

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That's right - I forgot kids weren't having any type of sex before Clinton.

[Alaska Darin]

That's right - I forgot kids weren't having any type of sex before Clinton.

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I didn't say that but if you think the President of the United States getting caught for having an illicit affair and the resulting enablement by so many because of his societal status didn't have an effect on the youth of America, then you weren't raising a kid or involved with many at the time.

[Bill from NYC]

That's right - I forgot kids weren't having any type of sex before Clinton.

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Of course I do not lay ALL of the blame on Clinton, and yes, teens were engaging in oral sex long before he was around.

That said, he did deny "having sex with that woman," thus implying that oral isn't sex. Hillary was worse. Remember the thumbs up and the "right wing conspiracy?"

Certainly you dont think that this was setting a good, honest nor safe example for our children, do you?

[Azalin]

Most of them are "getting" that. According to my son, that's why so many are having oral and anal sex - birth control.

 

No matter what new deal us adults come up with - aren't they one step ahead of us?

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maybe they'll always be a step ahead of us. I still wouldn't let that stop me from doing my best to teach them what I believe to be right. I have no children, so it's all very easy for me to say, but I strongly suspect that I'd rather be the primary source of my childrens' sex education instead of leaving it to be taught exclusively by some teacher that I didn't know. I always respected my teachers, but I always felt that my parents were wiser.

[Azalin]

Yes, God forbid we teach personal responsibility in this country.

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gee.....why bother to teach a little personal responsibility when society and peer pressure are such perfect scapegoats?

 

you must be one of those that like to rock the boat.

 

you trouble maker, you

[Whiskey Dick]

I didn't say that but if you think the President of the United States getting caught for having an illicit affair and the resulting enablement by so many because of his societal status didn't have an effect on the youth of America, then you weren't raising a kid or involved with many at the time.

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"Enablement"?

 

I think nobody outside of Ken Starr and a rabid foaming right wing congress really cared, or thought it should be public knowledge.

 

I know I certainly didn't care

[Whiskey Dick]

Of course I do not lay ALL of the blame on Clinton, and yes, teens were engaging in oral sex long before he was around.

That said, he did deny "having sex with that woman," thus implying that oral isn't sex. Hillary was worse. Remember the thumbs up and the "right wing conspiracy?"

Certainly you dont think that this was setting a good, honest nor safe example for our children, do you?

296285[/snapback]

The phrase "vast right wing conspiracy" draws mocking groans and and skepticism from conservatives, but if any of them ever bothered to do a little research and background checks then maybe it wouldn't come as a surprise that there was a concerted effort to take Clinton down from the beginning.

[Bill from NYC]

The phrase "vast right wing conspiracy" draws mocking groans and and skepticism from conservatives, but if any of them ever bothered to do a little research and background checks then maybe it wouldn't come as a surprise that there was a concerted effort to take Clinton down from the beginning.

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That has little to do with this topic. I stand by my claim that the Clintons set a poor moral example. Monica was not planted by Gingrich, nor was Clinton forced into any sex acts.

[nobody]

Of course I do not lay ALL of the blame on Clinton, and yes, teens were engaging in oral sex long before he was around.

That said, he did deny "having sex with that woman," thus implying that oral isn't sex. Hillary was worse. Remember the thumbs up and the "right wing conspiracy?"

Certainly you dont think that this was setting a good, honest nor safe example for our children, do you?

296285[/snapback]

 

 

What he said was he did not have "sexual relations" with that woman. The term "sexual relations" was defined by the lawyers on both sides of the issue. It had a very narrow definition that did not include oral sex.

 

And what percent of kids are really paying attention to what happens in politics? Are they following that more then say what their favorite movie and music stars are doing?

[Bill from NYC]

Defend his conduct as you will.

Again, I do not place all the blame on the Clintons, but they certainly served to help set a tone.

[RkFast]

"Enablement"?

 

I think nobody outside of Ken Starr and a rabid foaming right wing congress really cared, or thought it should be public knowledge.

 

I know I certainly didn't care

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Nobody "cares"? Its a "right wing" thing? Is that why in Europe, that "rabid foaming right wing" continent, the front pages of the News reads like the front pages of the National Enquirer when it comes to the personal affairs of their politicians?

 

FLIGHTSUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Britbillsfan]

Nobody "cares"? Its a "right wing" thing? Is that why in Europe, that "rabid foaming right wing" continent, the front pages of the News reads like the front pages of the National Enquirer when it comes to the personal affairs of their politicians?

 

FLIGHTSUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The issue in Europe (well the UK at least) on the whole was that politicians get canned for their infidelity if they were seen to be hypocritical (ie: were droning on about 'family values' whilst having a bit on the side). For politicans not of this ilk the papers generally printed the story when it got into the public domain and then did an editorial, mostly along the lines of 'so what'. If they were British and acted in this way GWB (not saying he would, just trying to use an hypothetical example) would be hammered in the UK press, whilst Clinton would have been largely ignored after a week or so.

 

Of course if you look at some of the gutter press we have all they are interested in reporting is mostly who is having sex with whom, so they will print endless rubbish but even in their case it is not as if they are treating politicians any differently than anyone else in the public eye. Oh, and these papers tend to be right wing, the printed press in the UK has a definite right wing bias.

 

In France I believe the attitude is even more a case of 'so what', as the relevations about Mitterand were to show.

 

As to the rest of Europe it varies enormously (after all there are real cultural differences between an Italian, a Greek and a Scandinavian) as to the attitudes towards wayward politicans.

[Whiskey Dick]

Nobody "cares"? Its a "right wing" thing? Is that why in Europe, that "rabid foaming right wing" continent, the front pages of the News reads like the front pages of the National Enquirer when it comes to the personal affairs of their politicians?

 

FLIGHTSUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Well SOME cared, but they were a definite minority, albeit a very loud, noxious one.

 

The Mitterand comment by a poster here was on target. Seems the French really tend to care more about matters of national concern rather than what their leader is doing 'tween the sheets.

 

Not us. We still have the old repressive morality hovering over us, ready to shoot you down if you dare stray.

[Whiskey Dick]

That has little to do with this topic. I stand by my claim that the Clintons set a poor moral example. Monica was not planted by Gingrich, nor was Clinton forced into any sex acts.

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Well you brought it up and your inference was clear enough; Hillary Clinton's "right wing conspiracy" charge warrents dismissal because it came from Hillary.

 

If you're going to introduce that opinion into the equation you're at least going to have to explain why you think she'd use that phrase if the Right wasn't actually targeting them.

[erynthered]

Well you brought it up and your inference was clear enough; Hillary Clinton's "right wing conspiracy" charge warrents dismissal because it came from Hillary.

 

If you're going to introduce that opinion into the equation you're at least going to have to explain why you think she'd use that phrase if the Right wasn't actually targeting them.

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Sorry to Interrupt this debate, but. By any chance did you go to LSU? Because they had this thing with freshman girls that , well. Lets just say, it was called “Whiskey Dick celebration”

 

I’ve been sworn to secrecy on exactly what they did, but it was beautiful. I think I remember thongs being involved, thou, it’s a blurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

 

 

Good times, check?

[Whiskey Dick]

Sorry to Interrupt this debate, but. By any chance did you go to LSU? Because they had this thing with freshman girls that , well. Lets just say, it was called “Whiskey Dick celebration”

 

I’ve been sworn to secrecy on exactly what they did, but it was beautiful. I think I remember thongs being involved, thou, it’s a blurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Good times, check?

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I beg your pardon?

[erynthered]

I beg your pardon?

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I guess not.

 

But I'll always remember Whiskey Dick night at LSU. <sigh>

[Campy]

I didn't say that but if you think the President of the United States getting caught for having an illicit affair and the resulting enablement by so many because of his societal status didn't have an effect on the youth of America, then you weren't raising a kid or involved with many at the time.

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A responsible parent or guardian uses it as a teaching tool. Like Bush's drug and alcohol abuse, it can be a positive. Blaming either for setting a bad example is lazy parenting.

[Alaska Darin]

A responsible parent or guardian uses it as a teaching tool.  Like Bush's drug and alcohol abuse, it can be a positive.  Blaming either for setting a bad example is lazy parenting.

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I like living in idealism land, too. Pardon me for expecting a little more out of the leader of the free world than not to degrade the very office he's working in. I won't even get into the other excuse making by the country's "leaders" for this and other behaviors.