olivier in france Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 oh you're funny to read !!! you're just spitting intolerance , ignorance and hatred toward the rest of the world in the whole thread and at the same time you wonder how incidents like the one that took place in the Astec Stadium can happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 oh you're funny to read !!! you're just spitting intolerance , ignorance and hatred toward the rest of the world in the whole thread and at the same time you wonder how incidents like the one that took place in the Astec Stadium can happen... 290552[/snapback] France eh? Thanks for all the help.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKO Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Being a die-hard Bills mexican fan living in Mexico City, I feel the urge to reply to this post... First of all, I agree with all of you that whistling during the american anthem, chanting "Osama" and throwing urine bags at US players (which didn't happen) shows a total lack of respect and maturity by mexican fans. I, for one, feel ashamed for those happenings... However, as someone already stated, this is not exclusive to mexican soccer fans. I think this happens everywhere... whenever a game pits two big-time rivals, there will always be fans who shout harsh words and, in general, behave more like apes than like the human beings they're supposed to be... It's the nature of sports... it helps people in dealing with their real-life frustrations and in some way, reflects their resentment against their inabilities/limitations in achieving their goals in life... be it in Mexico City, Miami, Iran or Africa... It's sad to see people overreact to something so irrelevant like these hapennings, because I find that behavior much more immature and ridiculous than the one you are referring to (by mexican fans)... minimizing and insulting another culture or country because of it shows me many things, among them that we as human race are very far apart in reaching a level of understanding and respect for each other. All of you have internet access... it implies that you can afford a PC (or a Mac), that you have a decent lifestyle (by american standards)... and obviously that you can read.... Well, close to 10% of the mexican population can't even read... combine it with the fact that seing their national soccer team beating the US team will be among their highlights of their lifetime, and maybe you could understand their sorry behavior... which is not too different to the sorry behavior of some fans when Bills vs Dolphins gametime arrives... I for one am very proud of being a mexican Buffalo Bills fan, and no stupid behavior or comment like the ones already poured on some stadiums or message boards, will interfere with my freedom to admire everything that deserves to be admired... and that's why I'll be at Aztec Stadium come October 2, to experience an NFL game in person, and to let you know that for every bonehead, there are many more reasonable people who respect your country and love many things about it, including NFL games... JesusM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 oh you're funny to read !!! you're just spitting intolerance , ignorance and hatred toward the rest of the world in the whole thread and at the same time you wonder how incidents like the one that took place in the Astec Stadium can happen... 290552[/snapback] To whom is this directed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 ... which is not too different to the sorry behavior of some fans when Bills vs Dolphins gametime arrives... JesusM 290570[/snapback] I would like to know the examples of Bills fans behavior that rivals the behavior of these Mexican fans. I haven't been to too many Bills/Dolphins contests, is it common to make fun of people dying in a hurricane? Is it all right to justify it because they have a better economy than Western NY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I would like to know the examples of Bills fans behavior that rivals the behavior of these Mexican fans. I haven't been to too many Bills/Dolphins contests, is it common to make fun of people dying in a hurricane? Is it all right to justify it because they have a better economy than Western NY? 290759[/snapback] Good point. I'd say rubbing the death of thousands of Americans in our face is a little worse than making fun of the Dolphins colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Ah yes this makes a lot of sense. Let's spew hatred for an entire ethnic group/country based on the drunken actions of some @sshole soccer fans. When I was in Pittsburgh for the 96 playoff game, I was like 12 years old, some Steeler fan told me go F myself (grown man too). So obviously now I hate all steeler fans, Pittsburgh residents, and anyone who lives in Western PA. Grow up people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Ah yes this makes a lot of sense. Let's spew hatred for an entire ethnic group/country based on the drunken actions of some @sshole soccer fans. When I was in Pittsburgh for the 96 playoff game, I was like 12 years old, some Steeler fan told me go F myself (grown man too). So obviously now I hate all steeler fans, Pittsburgh residents, and anyone who lives in Western PA. Grow up people. 290791[/snapback] It is quite reasonable to be bothered by what was said. I don't care what excuse there might be for their actions. Inappropriate fan behavior should be criticized no matter what the socioeconomic status of the people involved. If I go broke, is it okay for me to start punching people on Wall Street because they have it better than me? Or if that analogy doesn't work, is it okay for me to make fun of the death of their parents because they have it better than me? Lumping in all of the Mexican soccer fans with the behavior of this group of them, however large, is wrong, as is making fun of their ethnicity. However, nothing justifies what these guys chanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Being a die-hard Bills mexican fan living in Mexico City, I feel the urge to reply to this post... First of all, I agree with all of you that whistling during the american anthem, chanting "Osama" and throwing urine bags at US players (which didn't happen) shows a total lack of respect and maturity by mexican fans. I, for one, feel ashamed for those happenings... However, as someone already stated, this is not exclusive to mexican soccer fans. I think this happens everywhere... whenever a game pits two big-time rivals, there will always be fans who shout harsh words and, in general, behave more like apes than like the human beings they're supposed to be... It's the nature of sports... it helps people in dealing with their real-life frustrations and in some way, reflects their resentment against their inabilities/limitations in achieving their goals in life... be it in Mexico City, Miami, Iran or Africa... It's sad to see people overreact to something so irrelevant like these hapennings, because I find that behavior much more immature and ridiculous than the one you are referring to (by mexican fans)... minimizing and insulting another culture or country because of it shows me many things, among them that we as human race are very far apart in reaching a level of understanding and respect for each other. All of you have internet access... it implies that you can afford a PC (or a Mac), that you have a decent lifestyle (by american standards)... and obviously that you can read.... Well, close to 10% of the mexican population can't even read... combine it with the fact that seing their national soccer team beating the US team will be among their highlights of their lifetime, and maybe you could understand their sorry behavior... which is not too different to the sorry behavior of some fans when Bills vs Dolphins gametime arrives... I for one am very proud of being a mexican Buffalo Bills fan, and no stupid behavior or comment like the ones already poured on some stadiums or message boards, will interfere with my freedom to admire everything that deserves to be admired... and that's why I'll be at Aztec Stadium come October 2, to experience an NFL game in person, and to let you know that for every bonehead, there are many more reasonable people who respect your country and love many things about it, including NFL games... JesusM 290570[/snapback] Thanks, Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It is quite reasonable to be bothered by what was said. I don't care what excuse there might be for their actions. Inappropriate fan behavior should be criticized no matter what the socioeconomic status of the people involved. If I go broke, is it okay for me to start punching people on Wall Street because they have it better than me? Or if that analogy doesn't work, is it okay for me to make fun of the death of their parents because they have it better than me? Lumping in all of the Mexican soccer fans with the behavior of this group of them, however large, is wrong, as is making fun of their ethnicity. However, nothing justifies what these guys chanted. 290804[/snapback] I agree. I never said it wasn't right to be upset about those terrible comments. Those chants/actions are inexcusable in my book too. It's the "Well now I hate all of Mexico" attitude that troubles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I agree. I never said it wasn't right to be upset about those terrible comments. Those chants/actions are inexcusable in my book too. It's the "Well now I hate all of Mexico" attitude that troubles me. 290809[/snapback] Cool, sorry if I misunderstood you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I agree. I never said it wasn't right to be upset about those terrible comments. Those chants/actions are inexcusable in my book too. It's the "Well now I hate all of Mexico" attitude that troubles me. 290809[/snapback] Who said they "hated" Mexico? I dont understand the righteousness of some here. Its not the first time Mexico fans have chanted Osama taunts towards us. Burning and stomping American flags outside the stadium, throwing bags of urine, chanting Osama....does not make me want to rush out and buy a plane ticket to Mexico. I have been to Tijuana too. Mexico is not high on my travel list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Who said they "hated" Mexico? 290819[/snapback] One of the players said that? Damn. F Mexico then! Thats BS.....screw those mexican dirtbags.....next time I frequent Tijuana, I will be sure to spit and urinate on any one of those half-breds that tries to sell me dope or a $10 Rolex.....fug 'em.....I guess I can see why they are so bitter though......seeing that they are the toilet of North America!Viva America It was only 2 people. I guess I was generalizing (same thing I accused othes of) . Just bothers me.... And I've been to Mexico, and I have no real desire to go back either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It was only 2 people. I guess I was generalizing (same thing I accused othes of) . Just bothers me.... And I've been to Mexico, and I have no real desire to go back either. 290830[/snapback] I've heard Cabo San Lucas is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It was only 2 people. I guess I was generalizing (same thing I accused othes of) . Just bothers me.... And I've been to Mexico, and I have no real desire to go back either. 290830[/snapback] It really was only one person- One of the players said that? Damn. F Mexico then! pure sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I would like to know the examples of Bills fans behavior that rivals the behavior of these Mexican fans. I haven't been to too many Bills/Dolphins contests, is it common to make fun of people dying in a hurricane? Is it all right to justify it because they have a better economy than Western NY? 290759[/snapback] I don't think it is useful for the debate to devolve into a simple comparison of which fans transgressions were worse. It seems clear to me that activities like yelling Osana (who helped kill 3000+ innocent people and has nothing to do with this soccer match) or throwing bags of urine (a noxious infectious agent) is much worse that the various transgressions which have occured at the Ralph (a couple having public intercourse in the stands, the unfortunately all too typical use of foul language and public drunkenness). However, what often seems to happen in debate is that folks use the unforgivably bad actions (like the Osana chants) to justify the unforgivably stupid actions (like the public sex that renders a public event into a non-family affair) when both are simply inappropriate for a sporting event even though the Osana chants are much worse. I think there are several keys to me in consideration of these events: 1. The actions of a few should not be confused with the actions of the whole- I really doubt that every Mexican fan filled up a bad with urine at home and came to the game looking to hurl it at the nearest American. I really doubt the whole crowd arose as one and sang the same impromptu song in support of Osana to deride the US and help their team. A few Mexican fans probably engaged in unforgivably bad actions or said unforguivably bad things, but it seems like a flight of fancy to tar every fan at the stadium with the same brush. It seems even more outrageous to attribute the actions of a few to the entire county of Mexico or to their Presidente (or whatever they have a a set-up). 2. Just because someone says it is true does not make it a fact- There have already been some disputes in this thread over whether the urine bags happened. It does sound a little bizarre that a person would take the time and go throught the effort of pissing into a baggy (my guess is that ziploc bags are probably hard and maybe expensive to find in the barrios of Mexico), carry the warm urine around with them amidst brinking at a game, and then hurl it into a crowd where it is far more likely to hit a fellowMexican than an American. Folks also hear chants from someone who does not speak English, translates their hearing of a chant in a noisy stadium into their own language and makes incoreect assumptions about what was being said. A lot of this sounds like old wives tales to me. (If you do not believe that language difficulties cause fundamental problems, remember that our good friends at Chevrolet opened a sales outlet in Mexico City and experienced grea success selling American cars to the Mexicans who could afford them. That is except for the Chevy Nova and sales for this brand which Chevy assumed had a popular price were sluggish. It took a couple of years but someone finally got the bean-counters in charge in Detroit to understand that NO VA in Spanish translated into NO GO and was not the best selling name for a car. They changed the name and sales reached expercted proportions). 3. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face- The best answer to some subset of fans acting like animals is not to deny the entire country interaction with the US. Rather than tucking our tails between our legs and running him whining an crying because a few folks yelled Osana or threw water they claimed was urine at us. by far the better response to me would seem to be to send the NFL to Mexico, show 'em a good time and good competition, and make some bucks. By doing this we can play well with the vast majority of Mexicans who care about their families as well and like the distraction that sports brings from the troubles of day to day life. It seems to me that merely cancelling the NFL game would deliver a victory to those sad fools at the soccer game that want America to go home. I think that those who want to cancel the game are doing exactly what the Osanaesque forces in Mexico want them to do and are delivering a victory to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTS Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 France eh? Thanks for all the help.... 290553[/snapback] You mean "You Welcome for saving your ass ... twice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It's sad to see people overreact to something so irrelevant like these hapennings, because I find that behavior much more immature and ridiculous than the one you are referring to (by mexican fans)... JesusM 290570[/snapback] Worst Statement Ever Criticizing a bunch of punks on an internet message board for chanting "Osama" is worse than actually chanting "Osama"? I would like to know the examples of Bills fans behavior that rivals the behavior of these Mexican fans. I haven't been to too many Bills/Dolphins contests, is it common to make fun of people dying in a hurricane? Is it all right to justify it because they have a better economy than Western NY? What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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