Alonzo Highsmith explains why he flipped from Darnold to Mayfield

[metafour]

Josh Rosen's issue is that he is a QB who is seen as a know-it-all.  You can have that attitude if you've earned it like Tom Brady; but this is a kid out of college who hasn't proven anything.  His personality brings into question just how coachable he is which is important because these guys ALL need development.  A guy who thinks he knows more than his coaches is a huge red flag.  His college teammates may have bought into him, but remember that he was a 5-star signee and therefore already demanded respect among his peers.  A 10-year NFL vet isn't going to secede respect to this kid, especially when he shows traits of entitlement.

[BadLandsMeanie]

Just now, nbbillsfan said:

 

I don’t think anyonr was afraid of drafting Rosen because he is a “troublemaker”, they were scared off because he is a jerk. If you are phenomenal QB, you can be a jerk and still lead a successful NFL team. But you have to be great; will Rosen be good enough to overcome this, we will find out.

So beating on women isn't being a jerk? Remember, these NFL teams had to be forced, forced by public outcry, to do something about that. To even think about it. 

There are many, many other examples of both players and coaches being jerks. Heck we had a coach, a middle aged coach, hit some teenagers for stealing a chair.

I could go on and on. And so could just about every  football fan who reads the sports news go on and on. And that is only the stuff that becomes public. Oh don't forget the idiot on the Bills who decided to drive his three wheeled motorcycle up to a cop while holding a handgun. Plaxico Burris shot himself in the leg with his own gun. Nuff said about Zay Jones. 

 

 

What sort of a jerk is Rosen, that is so very different and so scary to these NFL men? Was it the girl? The hot tub? The hat? 

 

And why is it never specific? You are never specific in this thread. No one I have read has ever been specific. Not one time.

 

Your position is unsupportable. 

 

 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

18 minutes ago, metafour said:

Josh Rosen's issue is that he is a QB who is seen as a know-it-all.  You can have that attitude if you've earned it like Tom Brady; but this is a kid out of college who hasn't proven anything.  His personality brings into question just how coachable he is which is important because these guys ALL need development.  A guy who thinks he knows more than his coaches is a huge red flag.  His college teammates may have bought into him, but remember that he was a 5-star signee and therefore already demanded respect among his peers.  A 10-year NFL vet isn't going to secede respect to this kid, especially when he shows traits of entitlement.

Maybe you will agree when I guess that "know it all" describes at least 1 in 10 young men his age. And maybe 1 in 5 first round picks? 

Many of them admit that later on. They they wish they hadn't been so arrogant when they were rookies.

 

So granted, it is not the best mind set. But I am asking, what is so different about Rosen that he alone gets such a huge backlash against him?

 

I hope that Allen turns out great. But if it turns out that I have to keep watching losing football because our coaches didn't want to work with an annoying kid, I won't buy that. I think that is a character flaw in our coaches.

 

But setting that aside, doesn't it seem at all weird to you that teams and scouts and whoever else, just are all over Rosen, every day, month after month, for being a know it all??

 

Doesn't that seem unusual to you?

Edited May 1, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I'm assuming the issue was the volleyball coach had nothing good to say, which seems like it would be a red flag. He's probably asked other sport coaches before and the input was at some level useful to him. It even seems this particular coach would have more contact with Rosen since he's probably around the volleyball team a little more often.

The volleyball coach not only didn't say anything good about him he also didn't say anything bad about him. A negative response is being imputed from basically a non-response. And then what was imputed was turned into a public criticism of the character of a player who is not on your team. That's not right. 

[YoloinOhio]

tbh the notion that the Browns made a decision about a quarterback thanks to a volleyball coach not telling them anything sounds like a very Browns move

[greeneblitz]

Oh god, the Rosen squad is upset, man, so much smoke from nearly everyone thats every been around him, all you have to do is watch him for 5 mins on tv, the kid is a brat and a total douchebag, he wont last 3 years in the NFL with that personality unless he's the second coming on the field.

[nbbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

So beating on women isn't being a jerk? Remember, these NFL teams had to be forced, forced by public outcry, to do something about that. To even think about it. 

There are many, many other examples of both players and coaches being jerks. Heck we had a coach, a middle aged coach, hit some teenagers for stealing a chair.

I could go on and on. And so could just about every  football fan who reads the sports news go on and on. And that is only the stuff that becomes public. Oh don't forget the idiot on the Bills who decided to drive his three wheeled motorcycle up to a cop while holding a handgun. Plaxico Burris shot himself in the leg with his own gun. Nuff said about Zay Jones. 

 

 

What sort of a jerk is Rosen, that is so very different and so scary to these NFL men? Was it the girl? The hot tub? The hat? 

 

And why is it never specific? You are never specific in this thread. No one I have read has ever been specific. Not one time.

 

Your position is unsupportable. 

 

 

 

Ya, you are missing the point.

[metafour]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

tbh the notion that the Browns made a decision about a quarterback thanks to a volleyball coach not telling them anything sounds like a very Browns move

 

The book on Rosen has been known for a while, that is only one example of a longer list.  That new Browns FO is filled with highly regarded draft evaluators.  Even Jim Mora Jr, Rosen's college coach, made some offhanded remarks about Rosen needing to mature, and college coaches rarely if ever do that.  I know that people from the area have also described Rosen as a "tennis player at heart" (tennis was his first passion, and he was a top ranked junior before he switched to football).

[nbbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Maybe you will agree when I guess that "know it all" describes at least 1 in 10 young men his age. And maybe 1 in 5 first round picks? 

Many of them admit that later on. They they wish they hadn't been so arrogant when they were rookies.

 

So granted, it is not the best mind set. But I am asking, what is so different about Rosen that he alone gets such a huge backlash against him?

 

I hope that Allen turns out great. But if it turns out that I have to keep watching losing football because our coaches didn't want to work with an annoying kid, I won't buy that. I think that is a character flaw in our coaches.

 

But setting that aside, doesn't it seem at all weird to you that teams and scouts and whoever else, just are all over Rosen, every day, month after month, for being a know it all??

 

Doesn't that seem unusual to you?

Doesn’t it seem odd to you that his own head coach wouldn’t suggest him for the #1 pick?

[bobobonators]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Well this is a good thread for me. I'm starting to see that something isn't right here. There is something different.

 

As has been mentioned it is outside the bounds of professional, or even adult, behavior, for Highsmith to have said what he did. And it is the same vague, no substance, non-specific whispery kind of gossipy stuff that implies that they secretly know more, but won't say. We have some poster or two in this thread with the same sort of thing. Never specific. Never a verifiable event. Always just the "If you knew what I know, you wouldn't like Rosen either".

 

But we got guys like Jameis Winston who had way worse stuff alleged and also worse stuff that was proven, who went #1. So besides the stealing and alleged raping he was a heck of a guy in college I guess.

 

I don't want to land on Baker especially but he was indeed drunk and did indeed run from and get arrested by the cops. Everbody loves him, and he goes #1 overall.

 

Joe Mixon here actually broke some poor girl's face. He is very strong and women's facial bones are not as strong. He hurt her bad. This was hushed up until it leaked out much later.

I guess besides things like this he is a joy to be around, right?

 

 

 

Josh Rosen on the other hand is so bad that his presence is near intolerable. But unlike the others, and unlike nearly every other college and NFL star,  who grow so used to having their misdeeds and behavior hushed up or ignored that some few even wind up thinking they can get away with murdering people. Josh Rosen is exposed as a trouble maker before, during, and now after the draft. And the evidence we get is this. He had a girl, in a hot tub.

 

 

He had an F Trump hat on.

 

He is inquisitive of his coaches and wants to understand the game. 

 

These are the specific charges against him. Everything else is whispers which I have to tell you, nearly always means lies.

 

But even if they are not, what is so different about Josh Rosen that he catches all this heat and EVERYBODY else doesn't? Even when they hurt people. Why is that? What is going on here? It seems very, very odd to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do YOU think the reason is? 

 

To me its simple:  his talent potential falls slightly short to his ego/attitude (whatever you want to call it). Sprinkle in the fact that he has the body/frame of a 15yr old boy, and that doesnt help his case either. 

 

Lastly, lets stop this nonsense about Rosen being somehow cast away like he was drafted in the 3rd round. HE WAS STILL DRAFTED IN THE TOP 10. Rosen wasnt Luck coming out of Stanford. If the bundle of twigs cant realize that, then that itself is part of the problem with him. 

 

I cant wait until Toothpick Rosen gets annihilated by Suh and Donald 2x a year. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

19 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

Oh god, the Rosen squad is upset, man, so much smoke from nearly everyone thats every been around him, all you have to do is watch him for 5 mins on tv, the kid is a brat and a total douchebag, he wont last 3 years in the NFL with that personality unless he's the second coming on the field.

"From nearly everyone that has been around him"

 

As if YOU have any idea at all. Am I right? You just read the rumors. Don't you? 

 

You have no idea, at all, what you are talking about. Isn't that right?

 

I can tell you who agrees with me about you people and your rumors. Marv Levy, that's who.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[bobobonators]

Look at that girly frame Rosen has. His helmet is literally as wide as his entire torso/chest area. Look at those arms. Are those twigs? That chicken bone. Sorry, clavicle will probably break after 2 hits from Aaron Donald. This guy wont last unless he puts on 25lbs. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

9 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said:

Ya, you are missing the point.

This is my point : Your position is unsupportable.

 

But I don't need to make this into a crusade. I can't reshape your character and you don't want me to. Believe your rumors and take shots and offer opinions critical of someone you do not know and have never even met.

 

I just wanted to chime in that that is what you all are doing. Not just you guys in the thread here, but everybody like you in the football world and in the media. Repeating rumors that were repeated to you and that will be repeated by others who don't much care to be cautious, or know facts, or even be reasoned with,  when saying mean things about another person.

 

I can let it go like I say I just wanted to point it out and I think I have.

[Bing Bong]

Baker's going to be the best in class. Great decision, and brass balls to boot. 

 

Can I still make a savior Baker bot account?

Edited May 1, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Bing Bong]

7 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Look at that girly frame Rosen has. His helmet is literally as wide as his entire torso/chest area. Look at those arms. Are those twigs? That chicken bone. Sorry, clavicle will probably break after 2 hits from Aaron Donald. This guy wont last unless he puts on 25lbs. 

Geez dude, hate prejudice of appearances explained in hyperbole. Guy can throw the pig skin. Brees is a midget? Winston and KB got fat shamed? Baker's too short to succeed. Sproles never had a chance in the league. 40 year old Brady could snap at any point. Lionel Messi is too short (he was diagnosed with dwarfism)? Isiah Thomas never had a chance at playing basketball. Kevin durant is too skinny huh. Old Peyton Manning looked far worse. Wait.. all those guys proved they can play sports. Whoa, I thought a single picture indicates your career success. Weird, must mean Brady's infamous combine picks ruined his career.

 

Wait.. all these guys have something called talent. Huh, didn't know that mattered.

 

Maybe you're right, but wait tell he takes a snap and hits a quick throw to Fitz before Donald touches him. Or wait until Donald and Suh snap him in half. But don't give me a friggin picture and claim it means jack.

 

A girly frame? Got me triggered

[nbbillsfan]

16 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

This is my point : Your position is unsupportable.

 

But I don't need to make this into a crusade. I can't reshape your character and you don't want me to. Believe your rumors and take shots and offer opinions critical of someone you do not know and have never even met.

 

I just wanted to chime in that that is what you all are doing. Not just you guys in the thread here, but everybody like you in the football world and in the media. Repeating rumors that were repeated to you and that will be repeated by others who don't much care to be cautious, or know facts, or even be reasoned with,  when saying mean things about another person.

 

I can let it go like I say I just wanted to point it out and I think I have.

 

But listen to the guy talk, you can hear his arrogance for yourself. It’s not just rumors and smoke, if you listen to the qbs in this draft talk  they are all likeable; Rosen is not.

 

again, if he’s a great qb none of this will matter. Likewise, if Allen is the most likeable/coachable player of all time, but can’t put it together, than who cares.

[Bing Bong]

9 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said:

 

But listen to the guy talk, you can hear his arrogance for yourself. It’s not just rumors and smoke, if you listen to the qbs in this draft talk  they are all likeable; Rosen is not.

 

again, if he’s a great qb none of this will matter. Likewise, if Allen is the most likeable/coachable player of all time, but can’t put it together, than who cares.

Fair take. Not bothering to follow the argument but I like your stance.

 

NOT TAKING SIDES. YOU DA MAN BADLANDS

 

Edit I am taking sides. Rosen hate is dumb. He can throw this pigskin. See my post above at Bobobonators. I like you all.. but let's wait until the darn season begins before these fiery hot takes.

Edited May 1, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I'm assuming the issue was the volleyball coach had nothing good to say, which seems like it would be a red flag. He's probably asked other sport coaches before and the input was at some level useful to him. It even seems this particular coach would have more contact with Rosen since he's probably around the volleyball team a little more often.

 

Dude, I dunno what volleyball programs you've been around, but I can't imagine a volleyball program where the coach would tolerate having player boyfriends "around the volleyball team" at the same time the coach is there, trying to coach before, during, or after practice and a game.  Girl would be running extra suicide sprints and dive drills if she tried.  Around the team when they're having a party or something, sure, but the coach isn't there then.  In the stands during a game, sure, but if you know any teenage girls who want their boyfriends spending time with them when they're all sweaty after a hard-fought athletic contest, you know a different set o' teenage volleyball girls than I know.  Leaning forward kiss and maybe a bro-ish kind of hug, I'm all gross meet me after I shower.  Coach might have seen Rosen around the training facilities - the weight room and such - or just be going on casual contact and general rumors. 

 

I could be off, but I think expecting to get useful info out of the coach of another varsity sport or reading something big into it if you don't is just weird.  If the girlfriend was on the team and the coach is cool with it, the girlfriend would be the one to talk to.

 

I agree with the other posters that I think not picking the kid and then tossing him under the bus in an interview is un-called-for and unprofessional - on Highsmith's part.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said:

But listen to the guy talk, you can hear his arrogance for yourself. It’s not just rumors and smoke, if you listen to the qbs in this draft talk  they are all likeable; Rosen is not.

Again, if he’s a great qb none of this will matter. Likewise, if Allen is the most likeable/coachable player of all time, but can’t put it together, than who cares.

 

You're Right On with the last two sentences.  In the end, it's what's shown on the field that will count.

 

I don't hear the arrogance for myself.  He doesn't sound like your typical college athlete.  He sounds like a bunch of nerdy college interns I've worked with over the years, most of whom think they're smarter than they actually are and know more about a bunch of subjects than they actually do, and pronounce their views very authoritatively.  He talks too much and like Nuke Laloosh, needs to learn his platitudes.  That may be off-putting if you're looking for a drinking buddy but if you're looking for a great QB, should be down the list.

 

IMHO, because the QB position is so important, NFL GMs get too freakin' cute with it.    Sure, other things being equal, you'd rather have a fiery competitor with a magnetic personality who bonds with everyone and has great media presence.  But that's only if other things are equal.  The guy needs to prove he can play the game first.

 

48 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Baker's going to be the best in class. Great decision, and brass balls to boot. 

 

Can I still make a savior Baker bot account?

 

Sure - on a Browns message board

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Adam727 said:

So the Browns who were supposedly considering Allen at #1 overall actually had him ranked 5th (or lower) behind the other top 4 QBs.  And Arizona who we supposedly had to outbid for Allen at 7 wasn't willing to part with even one 2nd round pick to move up for a QB..

 

I think I need to stop reading football related articles for a few weeks.  I keep waiting for the disappointment from the draft to wear off but articles like this one don't help.  

 

I really hope Beane turns out to be the smartest person in the room and makes all his doubters look stupid, but it feels more and more like there weren't many GMs other than Beane that thought very highly of Allen.. 

 

I don't think that's a verifiable supposition.  I don't know of any teams who release their draft boards.

Here's what we know:

1) QB were drafted at 1 and 3.  Presumably Allen was lower than the 1st or 2nd QB on those team's boards, but they were able to get their 1st or 2nd choice.

You can't tell whether they thought highly of Allen or not; they might have had him graded top-five, they might have had him in the 3rd round.  Can't tell.

2) Allen was drafted at 7.  No QB were drafted between 3 and 7, but the 3 teams in question either just drafted a QB, just invested $18M in QB salary, or have a franchise QB.

You can conclude that 2 of those teams thought less highly of Allen than of the players they drafted, but they might still have had him high - just not as high as their choice, and also need may have factored into it

3) For the remaining 22 (?) teams, whether or not they thought highly of Allen is a total moot point, since he was off the board.