QBs, NFL Draft, Identity Politics (New Poster)

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1 hour ago, MURPHD6 said:

Your not discussing the topic. I did not ask you about your evaluation of TT, nor am I interested in debating your evaluation. I didnt say that you were a racist because you don't like TT, but you do want to argue about him, clearly. If you want to argue about Lamar, no prob. If you want to talk about TT there are other threads. I'm not being immature. Its pretty much standard procedure on this board to direct off topic discussions to other threads. You accused the posters of over evaluating TT, when he was not being duscussed. Thats trolling in my book, or else your just lazy, not reading posts, and wrongly assuming that TT critics were being called racists in this thread, when that wasn't being discussed at all.

And forgive me when pointing out that one of they key points being made was that more rage is spewed about black QBs than white ones. Which is why I asked why Peterman didn't make you upset. I'm not saying that your like the poster above, though. But I do find it curious that the first QB to get the bills in the playoffs in years sill bothers you, when the QB who played one of the worst halfs in franchise hisyory does not.

Edited March 31, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Juror#8]

10 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

And forgive me when pointing out that one of they key points being made was that more rage is spewed about black QBs than white ones. Which is why I asked why Peterman didn't make you upset. I'm not saying that your like the poster above, though. But I do find it curious that the first QB to get the bills in the playoffs in years sill bothers you, when the QB who played one of the worst halfs in franchise hisyory does not.

 

Hey wait a second, I'm the poster above. Is that meant as a dig on me? And here I thought we were in ideological alignment. I took the thumb thingy back. 

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But back to the whole Kapernick thing. In my opinion, the issue is that the NFl has alligned itself with the military, police forces, and emergency personell in an effort to market itself by exploiting patriotism. So his protests effect their branding.

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, MURPHD6 said:

And forgive me when pointing out that one of they key points being made was that more rage is spewed about black QBs than white ones. Which is why I asked why Peterman didn't make you upset. I'm not saying that your like the poster above, though. But I do find it curious that the first QB to get the bills in the playoffs in years sill bothers you, when the QB who played one of the worst halfs in franchise hisyory does not.

 

[BigDingus]

3 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

Your not discussing the topic. I did not ask you about your evaluation of TT, nor am I interested in debating your evaluation. I didnt say that you were a racist because you don't like TT, but you do want to argue about him, clearly. If you want to argue about Lamar, no prob. If you want to talk about TT there are other threads. I'm not being immature. Its pretty much standard procedure on this board to direct off topic discussions to other threads. You accused the posters of over evaluating TT, when he was not being duscussed. Thats trolling in my book, or else your just lazy, not reading posts, and wrongly assuming that TT critics were being called racists in this thread, when that wasn't being discussed at all.

 

Oh, so you're the topic police? Maybe you should go back & read the topic and refresh your memory. Read the thread title to start, then read the content. That's usually what people do before responding in a thread.

 

After doing that, notice his discussion of the QB situation and mentioning his opinion on Tyrod Taylor. Notice how my post mentioned Tyrod Taylor (AKA on Topic, duh).

 

Then, read your response. You asked a question. 

What do people do when asked a question? They RESPOND to that question. I did just that.

 

You replied that I'm trolling. Perhaps you should read what trolling is. Just because you disagree with a comment, doesn't mean I'm trolling. Responding to your question about "why aren't you bothered by Nathan Peterman?" isn't "trolling." Also, speaking off being off topic, YOU discussing Nathan Peterman IS off topic. The OP wasn't talking about him at all. Go back and read his post...

Notice anything? He NEVER ONCE said a the words "Nathan Peterman," but funny enough, he DID discuss Tyrod Taylor, to which I responded about. Hmmmmmmmmm, who's off topic again?

Maybe you should just stop responding. You look really, really dumb right now.

 

Note since you probably have a very small attention span: Key elements in our discussion are highlighted & underlined so you're not confused anymore.

Edited March 31, 2018 by BigDingus

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Yes. This thread is not being trolled at all. And forgive me for interpreting your your dumb and don't watch football invitation to respectfully discuss and debate the topic of race relations as not being in good faith and not indicative of am interest in an opposing viewpoint.

Edited March 31, 2018 by MURPHD6

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1 hour ago, MURPHD6 said:

But back to the whole Kapernick thing. In my opinion, the issue is that the NFl has alligned itself with the military, police forces, and emergency personell in an effort to market itself by exploiting patriotism. So his protests effect their branding.

Outside of the United States, lots of fans find the whole NFL supports the troops thing to be strange.

Why? 

Lots of professional sports organizations don't associate themselves with the military regimes in their countries, because it immediately injects politics into the conversation.

 

1 minute ago, MURPHD6 said:

Outside of the United States, lots of fans find the whole NFL supports the troops thing to be strange.

Why? 

Lots of professional sports organizations don't associate themselves with the military regimes in their countries, because it immediately injects politics into the conversation.

 

The NFL started the relationship with football and politics, not Kapernick. So thr idea that he is politicizing football is an argument that I don't agree with.

[BuffaloSol]

I thought I ended this conversation a couple days ago when OP @CamboBill and @MURPHD6 were too uninformed to have a debate on the subject. Which resulted in them using a bunch of debate tactics people use when they are outmatched and under informed, which is why they eventually couldn't respond to me. I don't mean to be rude but, I was not the one that started this topic.

[Poleshifter]

On 3/28/2018 at 6:24 AM, CamboBill said:

The concerns in some cities  are he is not "blue collar" enough.   What does this mean in a QB setting???

I think the concerns with Rosen are that he would not be the first player to show up in the morning, and last one to leave at night, as is somewhat expected from a "franchise QB". I believe that is the root of the "not blue collar enough" complaint.

 

There is a poster from New Zealand, sort of in your neighborhood. His name is "Bad Things" or something like that.

 

 

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He also has parents who are well off. One is a professor, I think. So some worry that given his concussion history that he will walk away from the game and retire early, because he doesn't need the money.

Oh and he disagreed with his coach, who seems to think that he is entitled millenial.

[CamboBill]

22 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I like Mayfield, Rosen, and Darnold a bit better as prospects, I think they are more complete and pro-ready players. Darnold and Rosen could come in and start for a team and be better served getting the experience, Mayfield probably should sit for a year or most of a year. Jackson probably should sit for 2 years in an ideal situation. But I don't know why Josh Allen gets more hype than Jackson. I would much rather have Jackson as a project than Allen as a project. I think teams are biased against Jackson for a variety of reasons, some valid some not. I think scouts are falling in love with Allen for a lot of silly reasons. 

 

But I do think that Jackson has the most potential as a prospect than any QB in this draft. But Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield are less of a project and less risky even if their ceilings are a bit lower. Allen I think is completely overrated. He reminds me of Jay Cutler hype wise coming out of the draft. Now Cutler didn't have a bad pro-career at all but he never was a top level QB, at best he was a top 15 QB for several years here or there but he never lived up to the hype that some placed on him in the draft process. 

 

Scouts are falling in love with Allen's big arm much like scouts fell in love with Cutler's big arm. But I think Allen's fundamentals and decision making are suspect. 

Yes ... and if you are looking for a franchise QB you have to gamble on upside ... not jus play it safe,  Drafting a QB who winds up a top 15 QB is not  necessarily a win ... just a marginal improvement over what we had.  Ideally you want someone who grows into a top 5 QB.  That is why I like Lamar.  I like Allen too but he seems to be the most flustered under pressure of any of the top 5. Still love his upside.

Edited March 31, 2018 by CamboBill

[CamboBill]

8 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

Yup no trolls here, none at all.

And I think one of the more interesting things about this thread, which is obvious to losts of lurkers out there, arguably a silent majority. Is just how difficult it is to have a discussion about Black QBs and racism in the Bills fan community. Just scroll threw and see how many people actively don't want this conversation to happen. 

While I appreciate your efforts to bring some nuance and sanity to the race part of this discussion ... I don't think there are that many people trying to shut it down .. just  3 or 4 zealots (including one or two likely sockpuppets) doing whatever they can to kill the thread. I suspect that the majority of people don't want to get involved in such a discussion  because any topic that touches on race or politics is just too exhausting.  it is sad in some ways, but also fully understandable in today's climate.  It is quite toxic environment, regardless of where one stands on political or race issues. As a friend back in the states told me last week .. you just cannot talk to anyone about anything meaningful these days if there is a chance they disagree with you.

 

All in all, trolls aside, there has been some good discussion on this thread and a lot of good posters have posted here.

 

It is interesting in some ways to see the tactics themselves.  There is nothing wrong with making an argument that race is zero-factor in NFL and saying "here is why". One can disagree with that argument but at least it is an argument ... hopefully supported by facts and logic.

 

Instead, what we have seen here .... one lies about what his opponent is saying (as a baiting tactic designed to spark a mudslinging contest) and then whines when nobody wants to engage him further, another just says "go away", another is convinced that everyone who disagrees with him is "the same poster", and another comes in and makes explicitly racist comments about blacks ... designed to inflame and get the thread closed.

 

The goal is the same ... make it angry, personal, and inflammatory ... so it gets the thread shut down.

 

It would be comical, if not so sad.

 

Anyway, it is the Internet and trolls are best left unfed and better to focus on the more positive or at least thoughtful posts many have made here.

3 hours ago, Poleshifter said:

I think the concerns with Rosen are that he would not be the first player to show up in the morning, and last one to leave at night, as is somewhat expected from a "franchise QB". I believe that is the root of the "not blue collar enough" complaint.

 

There is a poster from New Zealand, sort of in your neighborhood. His name is "Bad Things" or something like that.

 

 

That is a fair point, although I have never seen anything tangible that  that would reflect poorly on his work effort. Most of it seems personality related ... fairly or unfairly.

 

Thanks on the heads up on the New Zealand poster ... still probably a 10 tom12 hour flight from here ... but lots of kiwis here.

Edited March 31, 2018 by CamboBill

[Juror#8]

27 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

While I appreciate your efforts to bring some nuance and sanity to the race part of this discussion ... I don't think there are that many people trying to shut it down .. just  3 or 4 zealots (including one or two likely sockpuppets) doing whatever they can to kill the thread. I suspect that the majority of people don't want to get involved in such a discussion  because any topic that touches on race or politics is just too exhausting.  it is sad in some ways, but also fully understandable in today's climate.  It is quite toxic environment, regardless of where one stands on political or race issues. As a friend back in the states told me last week .. you just cannot talk to anyone about anything meaningful these days if there is a chance they disagree with you.

 

All in all, trolls aside, there has been some good discussion on this thread and a lot of good posters have posted here.

 

It is interesting in some ways to see the tactics themselves.  There is nothing wrong with making an argument that race is zero-factor in NFL and saying "here is why". One can disagree with that argument but at least it is an argument ... hopefully supported by facts and logic.

 

Instead, what we have seen here .... one lies about what his opponent is saying (as a baiting tactic designed to spark a mudslinging contest) and then whines when nobody wants to engage him further, another just says "go away", another is convinced that everyone who disagrees with him is "the same poster", and another comes in and makes explicitly racist comments about blacks ... designed to inflame and get the thread closed.

 

The goal is the same ... make it angry, personal, and inflammatory ... so it gets the thread shut down.

 

It would be comical, if not so sad.

 

Anyway, it is the Internet and trolls are best left unfed and better to focus on the more positive or at least thoughtful posts many have made here.

That is a fair point, although I have never seen anything tangible that  that would reflect poorly on his work effort. Most of it seems personality related ... fairly or unfairly.

 

Thanks on the heads up on the New Zealand poster ... still probably a 10 tom12 hour flight from here ... but lots of kiwis here.

 

It seems as if you’ve characterized a lot of posts and posters with a broad brush, friend. Not everyone goes about their efforts to inspire dialog and generate conversations and make [arguably] salient points in the same way. 

 

There are are quite a few ways to make a point. 

 

Not everyone fits neatly into your boxes. 

 

But I’m just the racist because I think black quarterbacks suck. 

 

Right? 

 

Right?

 

Or I’m just trying to close the thread down with incendiary comments, right? 

 

Right?

 

Man there are just too many new posters who don’t grasp the ebb and flow of the way these socially substantive posts are all supposed to work.

 

Damn newbs. 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Juror#8

[CamboBill]

4 minutes ago, Juror#8 said:

 

It seems as if you’ve characterized a lot of posts and posters with a broad brush, friend. Not everyone goes about their efforts to inspire dialog and generate conversations and make [arguably] salient points in the same way. 

 

There are are quite a few ways to make a point. 

 

Not everyone fits neatly into your boxes. 

 

But I’m just the racist because I think black quarterbacks suck. 

 

Right? 

 

Right?

 

Or I’m just trying to close the thread down with incendiary comments, right? 

 

Right?

 

Man there are just too many new posters to get the ebb and flow of the way this is supposed to work. Damn newbies. 

 

 

Guilty of being a Newbie here.

 

Hopefully that does not mean Guantanamo is in my future.

 

[Shaw66]

Cambo 

 

Thanks for the post.  A lot of provocative thoughts, and I think there's more truth there than people recognize.  

 

Your qb analysis is as good as anyone else.  I think your analysis of the draft will go or should go is spot on.  The Giants are the key.  

 

 

[Juror#8]

 

 

21 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

Guilty of being a Newbie here.

 

Hopefully that does not mean Guantanamo is in my future.

 

 

Clayton Bigsby. Class of 2011. Pleasure to meet you. 

 

And of of course people don’t want to touch this topic. But it doesn’t make it any less relevant or important. This one is for the initiated. And people are certainly reading it. That’s what matters. 

 

Anyway, back to my thesis: Black qbs suck. They don’t have the mental acuity enough to competently captain the ship. They defer to running and that’s probably a proclivity learned in the hood.

 

There is science and supportable fact behind all of this. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Juror#8

[CamboBill]

16 minutes ago, Juror#8 said:

 

 

 

Clayton Bigsby. Class of 2011. Pleasure to meet you. 

 

And of of course people don’t want to touch this topic. But it doesn’t make it any less relevant or important. This one is for the initiated. And people are certainly reading it. That’s what matters. 

 

Anyway, back to my thesis: Black qbs suck. They don’t have the mental acuity enough to competently captain the ship. They defer to running and that’s probably a proclivity learned in the hood.

 

There is science and supportable fact behind all of this. 

Hmm ... had to Google Clayton Bigsby   .... Dave Chapelle put out a lot of stuff that would never fly today.  have to admit it made me laugh.