Bills tried to sign RT Ricky Wagner; headed to Lions

[FireChan]

That was a little confusing. Deion was so good at coverage that a coach could forgive his poor tackling because they were able to do things with other players on defense that would give them a distinct advantage. If you think Gilmore is anywhere near that, you are insane.

Actually that is exactly what you are doing.

Yeah that's what I was saying. Doesn't by definition that make abilities in coverage worth more than tackling?

[Wayne Cubed]

That was a little confusing. Deion was so good at coverage that a coach could forgive his poor tackling because they were able to do things with other players on defense that would give them a distinct advantage. If you think Gilmore is anywhere near that, you are insane.

Actually that is exactly what you are doing.

 

No it's not. At all.

 

We are discussing why CBs are paid what they are paid. You seem to think that because Gilmore is a poor tackler, he shouldn't be paid as a good cover corner.

[FireChan]

Here's the stats, thanks in advance bandito.

Look at the numbers:

Gilmore stats for the 2016 season: 69 targets, 40 receptions, 627 yards, 2 TDs, 67.7 passer rating against, 42 solo tackles
http://billswire.usa...hought-in-2016/

Article from Ike Taylor on his top 10 CBs in 2016:
http://www.nfl.com/n...n-lands-at-no-1

Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against, 38 solo tackles
Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals: allowed 43 catches on 74 targets for 539 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 72.9 passer rating against, 45 solo tackles
Chris Harris Jr., Denver Broncos: allowed 34 catches on 72 targets for 337 yards, three TDs, two INTs, 63.3 passer rating against, 57 solo tackles
Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs: allowed 51 catches on 89 targets for 652 yards, three TDs, six INTs, 63.5 passer rating against, 35 solo tackles
Josh Norman, Washington Redskins: allowed 44 catches on 88 targets for 589 yards, four TDs, three INTs, 72.6 passer rating against, 52 solo tackles
Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants: allowed 37 catches on 81 targets for 425 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 54.8 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles
Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals: allowed 47 catches for 76 targets for 482 yards, two TDs, one INT, 83.3 passer rating against, 54 solo tackles
Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota Vikings: allowed 33 catches on 79 targets for 384 yards, two TDs, five INTs, 39.2 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles
Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos: allowed 36 catches on 73 targets for 372 yards, zero TDs, three INTs, 53.3 passer rating against, 32 solo tackles
Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville Jaguars: allowed 48 catches on 90 targets for 703 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 68.0 passer rating against, 55 solo tackles

Summary:

- Gilmore was targeted by opposing QBs fewer times than everyone on that list
- He allowed more yards than everyone on the list save for Ramsey and Peters
- Talib allowed zero TDs, and Gilmore tied with 6 others on the list for 2nd-fewest with 2 TDs allowed
- Gilmore's passer rating allowed was 3.7 points behind Sherman, and better than than those allowed by Patrick Peterson, Josh Norman, Adam Jones, and Jalen Ramsey
- Gilmore had fewer INTs than Peters, and tied with Rhodes for 2nd-most from that list

 

He made more tackles than Sherman, Talib, Peters.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Yeah that's what I was saying. Doesn't by definition that make abilities in coverage worth more than tackling?

Yea our vastly overestimating Stephon Gilmore's coverage skills. When you are Deion Sanders, Darrell Green etc, you don't have to be the best tackler in the world. The fact that you are bringing up an all time great and comparing him to Gilmore says a lot. Sanders>>>>>>>>Gilmore in coverage. Gilmore doesn't even have to be great at tackling, but the effort isn't even there. He doesn't even slow up receivers when doing so would allow teammates to get there and complete the tackle.

[FireChan]

Yea our vastly overestimating Stephon Gilmore's coverage skills. When you are Deion Sanders, Darrell Green etc, you don't have to be the best tackler in the world. The fact that you are bringing up an all time great and comparing him to Gilmore says a lot. Sanders>>>>>>>>Gilmore in coverage. Gilmore doesn't even have to be great at tackling, but the effort isn't even there. He doesn't even slow up receivers when doing so would allow teammates to get there and complete the tackle.

 

 

Here's the stats, thanks in advance bandito.

 

Look at the numbers:

 

Gilmore stats for the 2016 season: 69 targets, 40 receptions, 627 yards, 2 TDs, 67.7 passer rating against, 42 solo tackles

http://billswire.usa...hought-in-2016/

 

Article from Ike Taylor on his top 10 CBs in 2016:

http://www.nfl.com/n...n-lands-at-no-1

 

Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against, 38 solo tackles

Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals: allowed 43 catches on 74 targets for 539 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 72.9 passer rating against, 45 solo tackles

Chris Harris Jr., Denver Broncos: allowed 34 catches on 72 targets for 337 yards, three TDs, two INTs, 63.3 passer rating against, 57 solo tackles

Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs: allowed 51 catches on 89 targets for 652 yards, three TDs, six INTs, 63.5 passer rating against, 35 solo tackles

Josh Norman, Washington Redskins: allowed 44 catches on 88 targets for 589 yards, four TDs, three INTs, 72.6 passer rating against, 52 solo tackles

Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants: allowed 37 catches on 81 targets for 425 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 54.8 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles

Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals: allowed 47 catches for 76 targets for 482 yards, two TDs, one INT, 83.3 passer rating against, 54 solo tackles

Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota Vikings: allowed 33 catches on 79 targets for 384 yards, two TDs, five INTs, 39.2 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles

Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos: allowed 36 catches on 73 targets for 372 yards, zero TDs, three INTs, 53.3 passer rating against, 32 solo tackles

Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville Jaguars: allowed 48 catches on 90 targets for 703 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 68.0 passer rating against, 55 solo tackles

 

Summary:

 

- Gilmore was targeted by opposing QBs fewer times than everyone on that list

- He allowed more yards than everyone on the list save for Ramsey and Peters

- Talib allowed zero TDs, and Gilmore tied with 6 others on the list for 2nd-fewest with 2 TDs allowed

- Gilmore's passer rating allowed was 3.7 points behind Sherman, and better than than those allowed by Patrick Peterson, Josh Norman, Adam Jones, and Jalen Ramsey

- Gilmore had fewer INTs than Peters, and tied with Rhodes for 2nd-most from that list

 

He made more tackles than Sherman, Talib, Peters.

See this.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Here's the stats, thanks in advance bandito.

 

Look at the numbers:

 

Gilmore stats for the 2016 season: 69 targets, 40 receptions, 627 yards, 2 TDs, 67.7 passer rating against, 42 solo tackles

http://billswire.usa...hought-in-2016/

 

Article from Ike Taylor on his top 10 CBs in 2016:

http://www.nfl.com/n...n-lands-at-no-1

 

Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against, 38 solo tackles

Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals: allowed 43 catches on 74 targets for 539 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 72.9 passer rating against, 45 solo tackles

Chris Harris Jr., Denver Broncos: allowed 34 catches on 72 targets for 337 yards, three TDs, two INTs, 63.3 passer rating against, 57 solo tackles

Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs: allowed 51 catches on 89 targets for 652 yards, three TDs, six INTs, 63.5 passer rating against, 35 solo tackles

Josh Norman, Washington Redskins: allowed 44 catches on 88 targets for 589 yards, four TDs, three INTs, 72.6 passer rating against, 52 solo tackles

Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants: allowed 37 catches on 81 targets for 425 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 54.8 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles

Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals: allowed 47 catches for 76 targets for 482 yards, two TDs, one INT, 83.3 passer rating against, 54 solo tackles

Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota Vikings: allowed 33 catches on 79 targets for 384 yards, two TDs, five INTs, 39.2 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles

Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos: allowed 36 catches on 73 targets for 372 yards, zero TDs, three INTs, 53.3 passer rating against, 32 solo tackles

Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville Jaguars: allowed 48 catches on 90 targets for 703 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 68.0 passer rating against, 55 solo tackles

 

Summary:

 

- Gilmore was targeted by opposing QBs fewer times than everyone on that list

- He allowed more yards than everyone on the list save for Ramsey and Peters

- Talib allowed zero TDs, and Gilmore tied with 6 others on the list for 2nd-fewest with 2 TDs allowed

- Gilmore's passer rating allowed was 3.7 points behind Sherman, and better than than those allowed by Patrick Peterson, Josh Norman, Adam Jones, and Jalen Ramsey

- Gilmore had fewer INTs than Peters, and tied with Rhodes for 2nd-most from that list

 

He made more tackles than Sherman, Talib, Peters.

Nice try. Number of tackles doesn't matter. Bringing up tackle stats and saying he had more tackles than Sherman shows how wrong you are. Seriously comparing Gilmore to Sherman in terms of tackling lol.

[FireChan]

Nice try. Number of tackles doesn't matter. Bringing up tackle stats and saying he had more tackles than Sherman shows how wrong you are. Seriously comparing Gilmore to Sherman in terms of tackling lol.

Bandit also compared him in terms of coverage. They are quite similar.

[Reed83HOF]

 

 

See this.

 

Should have kept Gilmore over TT

[Wayne Cubed]

Bandit also compared him in terms of coverage. They are quite similar.

 

I give up.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Bandit also compared him in terms of coverage. They are quite similar.

Okay, keep believing Sherman and Gilmore are comparable corners.

[FireChan]

Okay, keep believing Sherman and Gilmore are comparable corners.

Their coverage stats are virtually identical. Sherman also has the benefit of All-Pro safety help, over Gilmore's dead safety in AW and old man Graham

Edited March 8, 2017 by FireChan

[BADOLBILZ]

I love Lattimore but you are 100% wrong on Gilmore. He is a loss to this team.

 

 

I think Gilmore is a big immediate loss too.........but at the same time I think they'd regret signing him to a long term deal within 2 years.

 

I wanted a franchise tag used.

 

He's really good but I just don't trust him in to:

 

1) keep working on his game after paid

 

2) fix his tackling issues and subsequently STOP ending up on IR

 

Gilmore has to be the worst CB tackler in the NFL. He is not a complete CB1 in the NFL. He is so inconsistent. At most he is a CB2. There are some very good CBs in this draft that can easily replace him. The question is will one of the top guys be there at #10 for us.

 

 

THAT is a real possibility.

 

He may compare to Sherman in terms of overall coverage stats..........but Richard Sherman is a fierce hitter and sound tackler when needed.

 

Sherman took on Felton solo at full speed on 3rd and 1 in that Bills game and damn near stoned him......and got right up and was right back at it.

 

I don't need a physical corner but if they can't tackle without getting hurt it's a problem.

Their coverage stats are virtually identical. Sherman also has the benefit of All-Pro safety help, over Gilmore's dead safety in AW and old man Graham

 

Question:

 

Would you rather trade a third round pick for Sherman and pay him the $11M per year he has in base salary each of the next two years or sign Gilmore for $13M-$14M?

 

Not a loaded question, I've just heard he might be available.

[FireChan]

 

 

I think Gilmore is a big immediate loss too.........but at the same time I think they'd regret signing him to a long term deal within 2 years.

 

I wanted a franchise tag used.

 

He's really good but I just don't trust him in to:

 

1) keep working on his game after paid

 

2) fix his tackling issues and subsequently STOP ending up on IR

 

 

THAT is a real possibility.

 

He may compare to Sherman in terms of overall coverage stats..........but Richard Sherman is a fierce hitter and sound tackler when needed.

 

Sherman took on Felton solo at full speed on 3rd and 1 in that Bills game and damn near stoned him......and got right up and was right back at it.

 

I don't need a physical corner but if they can't tackle without getting hurt it's a problem.

 

Question:

 

Would you rather trade a third round pick for Sherman and pay him the $11M per year he has in base salary each of the next two years or sign Gilmore for $13M-$14M?

 

Not a loaded question, I've just heard he might be available.

GIlmore.

 

Sherman ain't all that in the NFL. He has lots of help.

 

I hate Sherman the person, so I'm biased

[thebandit27]

 

Question:

 

Would you rather trade a third round pick for Sherman and pay him the $11M per year he has in base salary each of the next two years or sign Gilmore for $13M-$14M?

 

Not a loaded question, I've just heard he might be available.

 

If that were a real possibility then I'd be on the phone now.