San-O Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Check the stats: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2016&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS Tyrod doesn't throw a lot of INTs, which is good but other than that he's at the bottom of most stats that one might look at. And if Buffalo doesn't have the BEST running game in the NFL this year at 5.3 yards / carry, T.T. is not even in the discussion as being an NFL QB. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Stats dont tell tho whole story. Tyrod is a factor as to why we have the best running game and top 10 in scoring 2 years in a row, too many people forget that. He's not a world beater but hes not kapernick bad either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 Stats dont tell tho whole story. Tyrod is a factor as to why we have the best running game and top 10 in scoring 2 years in a row, too many people forget that. He's not a world beater but hes not kapernick bad either. True. Look at completion % Look at yards / game. Look at QB rating. The HAVE to run the ball because the can't throw. He also is like 30th in the league in sacks I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 True. Look at completion % Look at yards / game. Look at QB rating. The HAVE to run the ball because the can't throw. He also is like 30th in the league in sacks I believe. Im not gonna buy that when the 2 years he has been here the coach running the team is a ground and pound let the defense do the heavy lifting coach, and brought in an OC with the same philosophy. Have to see what he plays like with an OC that uses the passing game more, with better concepts then GRos playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Charlie Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 How is it remotely possible mathematically to be near the bottom of the league in pass attempts but top of the league in stats. 95% of good quarterbacks are developed they don't just appear out of no where. I'm so glad I don't find this as confusing as many of the people here seem to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) Check the stats: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2016&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS Tyrod doesn't throw a lot of INTs, which is good but other than that he's at the bottom of most stats that one might look at. And if Buffalo doesn't have the BEST running game in the NFL this year at 5.3 yards / carry, T.T. is not even in the discussion as being an NFL QB. IMHO. I'm not sure I'm getting your point. Perhaps you could define what stats one might look at? Stats dont tell tho whole story. Tyrod is a factor as to why we have the best running game and top 10 in scoring 2 years in a row, too many people forget that. He's not a world beater but hes not kapernick bad either. Stats do tell the whole story, but you need to have the right stats. Wins is a good stat. Points scored is another good stat as it's strongly correlated with wins Passing yards or passing attempts is not a great stat to look at when judging a QB's contribution, because it actually doesn't happen to be correlated very strongly with wins. For example, teams tend to pass a lot when they're behind and must pass to win, or when their D sucks and they need to pass to keep up. One of the simple but meaningful stats on QB is Cold Hard Football Facts "real QBR", which includes not only metrics of passing effectiveness, but of rushing effectiveness for QB, thus measuring their total contribution to points scored. It's a stat which is strongly correlated to wins. As of Week 16, Taylor (Buffalo) was 12th, which is not elite, but it's not "Kaepernick bad" either. Edited January 2, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) Stats do tell the whole story, but you need to have the right stats. Wins is a good stat. Points scored is another good stat as it's strongly correlated with wins Passing yards or passing attempts is not a great stat to look at when judging a QB's contribution, because it actually doesn't happen to be correlated very strongly with wins. For example, teams tend to pass a lot when they're behind and must pass to win, or when their D sucks and they need to pass to keep up. One of the simple but meaningful stats on QB is Cold Hard Football Facts "real QBR", which includes not only metrics of passing effectiveness, but of rushing effectiveness for QB, thus measuring their total contribution to points scored. It's a stat which is strongly correlated to wins. As of Week 16, Taylor (Buffalo) was 12th, which is not elite, but it's not "Kaepernick bad" either. Your right hap! Im just so used to people using meaningless stats with a strong dose of confirmation bias that I automatically dispel it. 12th is very very very far from kap! Edited January 2, 2017 by Marty McFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Stats dont tell tho whole story. Tyrod is a factor as to why we have the best running game and top 10 in scoring 2 years in a row, too many people forget that. He's not a world beater but hes not kapernick bad either. isnt that, more or less, what made kaepernick decent for a few years but not long term sustainable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billschinatown Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re enlightener Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Check the stats: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2016&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS Tyrod doesn't throw a lot of INTs, which is good but other than that he's at the bottom of most stats that one might look at. And if Buffalo doesn't have the BEST running game in the NFL this year at 5.3 yards / carry, T.T. is not even in the discussion as being an NFL QB. IMHO. read my post on tyrods option for an actual assessment on tyrod. comparing 2 guys in different systems/conferences/teams is like comparing 2 cars that have the same top speed....and thats it. totally ridiculous waste of a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We should check out this Willie Snead guy. Pretty nice stats in limited action! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANK2 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) Eric Wood summed it up and you saw it Sunday. Tyrod opens up the run game and the offense in general. Seventh in points scored. Fix the defense. Thats all I got to say about that. Sincerely, Forrest Gump Edited January 2, 2017 by TANK2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 isnt that, more or less, what made kaepernick decent for a few years but not long term sustainable? bingo. I think Tyrod has better throwing talent then Kap but he needs to throw the ball enough to turn the proper foot work into muscle memory Eric Wood summed it up and you saw it Sunday. Tyrod opens up the run game and the offense in general. Seventh in points scored. Fix the defense. Thats all I got to say about that. Sincerely, Forrest Gump Bam. Points for Gumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANK2 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) Check the stats: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2016&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS Tyrod doesn't throw a lot of INTs, which is good but other than that he's at the bottom of most stats that one might look at. And if Buffalo doesn't have the BEST running game in the NFL this year at 5.3 yards / carry, T.T. is not even in the discussion as being an NFL QB. IMHO. Traditional stats get skewed here. No way to account for Tyrods effect on the run game and passing game. He makes some plays with his legs other QBs make with their arms. May not be pretty but it was good enough. Maybe Tyrod opens up the run game more than the run game opens up things for him. 7th in points scored. Gonna keep saying it. If it aint broke dont fix it. Fix the defense. Edited January 2, 2017 by TANK2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I touched on this yesterday: The key, enormous difference between the two is Tyrod's ability to nail the deep ball. He's REALLY good at it. ELITE level deep ball passer and he can deliver it from the pocket or from outside. Kaep has a gun but really can't consistently make good throws at ANY level and that allowed him to be schemed out of effectiveness. As Eric Wood said today on WGR......Tyrod basically eliminates a guy in the box in the run game........then add in that big play dimension in the pass game and the D is really stressed to cover the LOS and deep. Which leaves those "HS level throw" comebacks that irk people so much wide open for the taking on the sideline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I touched on this yesterday: The key, enormous difference between the two is Tyrod's ability to nail the deep ball. He's REALLY good at it. ELITE level deep ball passer and he can deliver it from the pocket or from outside. Kaep has a gun but really can't consistently make good throws at ANY level and that allowed him to be schemed out of effectiveness. As Eric Wood said today on WGR......Tyrod basically eliminates a guy in the box in the run game........then add in that big play dimension in the pass game and the D is really stressed to cover the LOS and deep. Which leaves those "HS level throw" comebacks that irk people so much wide open for the taking on the sideline. i will agree that his ability to hit those AND run really makes the defense account for a huge amount of space (as long as we have effective deep threats) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Stats dont tell tho whole story. Tyrod is a factor as to why we have the best running game and top 10 in scoring 2 years in a row, too many people forget that. He's not a world beater but hes not kapernick bad either. Yep, it's hard to defend our running game when we effectively have 2, sometimes 3, running backs in the backfield. I don't know how to quantify TT's contribution to the running game but I do know it's more than just his rushing yards. Still, his inconsistent vision and accuracy can be maddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Charlie Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 BTW guess what Taylor and Kapernick have in common? Roman and his run first offense. I must be a genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 BTW guess what Taylor and Kapernick have in common? Roman and his run first offense. I must be a genius Kap wasn't in Romans offense this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) i will agree that his ability to hit those AND run really makes the defense account for a huge amount of space (as long as we have effective deep threats) No question.........Taylor was hampered greatly by not having a quality deep threat. But how good is Andy Dalton without AJ Green? The list of QB's that can succeed with Marquis Goodwin and Justin Hunter as the only reliably healthy WR's is short. On film it looks like Tyrod could be one of them if he could hit them when they are running open! But flipside is that they were usually open BECAUSE of the emphasis on Tyrod and the amount of time he buys. Put Brian Hoyer back there and those guys are blanketed and the run game is getting short circuited in the backfield. I guess the message from the good book of the CoT would be Tyrod giveth and he taketh away......but he giveth a lot more than many think. Edited January 2, 2017 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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