1billsfan Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 So, should Ruth's records not count either? Afterall, in his time MLB excluded an entire segment of the population from EVEN PLAYING THE GAME. How can we ever tell what "might have been" had blacks been allowed to play? Maybe Babe never gets the record because he has to face the likes of Paige, or get competition from Gibson, Robinson or the countless other players who were excluded because of the color of their skin. "His records will be scarred forever already." I don't think so. Baseball has a long history with plenty of skeletons in the closet. The "Steroid Era" is certainly a black eye for the sport, but who's really to blame? The individual who took perfermance enhancing drugs (which, weren't outlawed by the sport until recently), or the league that allowed that loophole to exist? It's easy to critize players for using the drugs from the cheap seats...but honestly, could you say you wouldn't do the same? If you had the opportunity to financially secure future generations of your family by taking drugs that may drastically shorten your life and AREN'T against the rules, wouldn't you have to at least consider it? Obviously not everyone would do it...and I am not condoning Bonds...but I find it hard to place all the blame on him (or anyone who roided). But in the end, what's worse...not allowing blacks to play (and thus affecting the record books...) or allowing individuals to use performance enhancing drugs (and thus affecting the record books...)? Yet, no one ever questions the records from the "old days". Kind of hypocritical if you ask me. 250316[/snapback] Hank Aaron has the record, not Babe Ruth. As far as I know his record's athenticity not in dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Hank Aaron has the record, not Babe Ruth. As far as I know his record's athenticity not in dispute. 250723[/snapback] Hank Aaron is 1, Babe is 2. But people here want to wipe out Bonds' personal stats and place in the record books...but not Babe's. Why not? How is one better than the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Hank Aaron has the record, not Babe Ruth. As far as I know his record's athenticity not in dispute. 250723[/snapback] Ok just for the record you people are stupid. First of all our country is based on a system where everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Second of all when he was accused of using steroids they were not designated as illegal by the league. Plus even after all of this bs the league still does not have a testing policy in place. So who is to blame? Circumstantial evidence does not stand up in court so why does it stand in your minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Like some of the "old time " players would not have cut some corners if given the chance. Yeah the beloved babe ruth would have done whatever it took as long as he could spend more time getting laid and drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Circumstantial evidence does not stand up in court so why does it stand in your minds? 250821[/snapback] so the fact he admitted to using them in a court of law means nothing to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 so the fact he admitted to using them in a court of law means nothing to you? 250830[/snapback] No the comparison of his or other players stats to the possible use of steriods bothers me. Only the people in his hearing have heard bond's testimony. Anything that was leaked can be taken with a grain of salt. Regardless, the league did not designate whatever he is accused of taking until now, so basically they have allowed it until now, and any records that have been established before this season shall stand forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Ok just for the record you people are stupid. First of all our country is based on a system where everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Second of all when he was accused of using steroids they were not designated as illegal by the league. Plus even after all of this bs the league still does not have a testing policy in place. So who is to blame? Circumstantial evidence does not stand up in court so why does it stand in your minds? 250821[/snapback] Stupid? Take the unconditional blinders off. Bonds has been juiced since 2000, I will never recognize him as the home run king should he break the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Stupid? Take the unconditional blinders off. Bonds has been juiced since 2000, I will never recognize him as the home run king should he break the record. 250854[/snapback] But you still never answered the question. If you are going to ignore Bond's stats are you going to ignore the Babe's and others from the old days as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 he's such a pompous a$$......he should just retire before breaking the record and save himself the humiliation........ i wonder why he was taking steriods if they don't help you "hit the ball better"? must be for the other enjoyable side-effects...... 249649[/snapback] You're incorrect, he's not a pompous ass. Some of his answers to the questions were indirect about the steroids, but for the most part he was speaking his mind and telling it how it is. You don't respect him for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Ok just for the record you people are stupid. First of all our country is based on a system where everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Second of all when he was accused of using steroids they were not designated as illegal by the league. 250821[/snapback] And just for your record, steroids are and have been an illegal substance in the US for years. So while pro baseball has never said they were bad, US law already did. Unless a sports league can overrule US law???? You can't circumvent this. Bonds was a cheater. So were a lot of other baseball players. MLB is a sham league, and has now moved the once national pastime into a ranking right below basketball and just above hockey. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 And just for your record, steroids are and have been an illegal substance in the US for years. So while pro baseball has never said they were bad, US law already did. Unless a sports league can overrule US law???? You can't circumvent this. Bonds was a cheater. So were a lot of other baseball players. MLB is a sham league, and has now moved the once national pastime into a ranking right below basketball and just above hockey. The end. 250940[/snapback] Sure they have been illegal. Just like drinking under age, or smoking weed, or any other sort of illicit substances. But how many people here partook in those very things when they were younger? And none of us did it to improve our careers...I'm not saying Barry is right, just that the league let it go on under their nose, and you can't fault Barry (or any others) for taking advantage to secure their futures. Still, it drives me nuts to hear people calling for Bonds to be erases from the record books yet the same people get mad if others call for Babe to have an astriks next to his name... I'm not a big race card guy, but if Bonds were white, this wouldn't be as big an issue. It wasn't for McGwire, and Giambi seems to be doing okay since he came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo in Pa Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Barry Bonds is a piece of crap. He emits a foul and disgusting odor. I loath him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Barry Bonds is a piece of crap.He emits a foul and disgusting odor. I loath him. 251394[/snapback] I'm not a fan either...but it has more to do with his personality than the roids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 In the midst of all of this, Bud "The Boob" Selig is sitting in a corner somewhere rocking back and forth and drooling on himself while the game of baseball dies. 250157[/snapback] This is a classic Moose post. Thanks, I nearly spit water all over my keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 So, should Ruth's records not count either? Afterall, in his time MLB excluded an entire segment of the population from EVEN PLAYING THE GAME. How can we ever tell what "might have been" had blacks been allowed to play? Maybe Babe never gets the record because he has to face the likes of Paige, or get competition from Gibson, Robinson or the countless other players who were excluded because of the color of their skin. "His records will be scarred forever already." I don't think so. Baseball has a long history with plenty of skeletons in the closet. The "Steroid Era" is certainly a black eye for the sport, but who's really to blame? The individual who took perfermance enhancing drugs (which, weren't outlawed by the sport until recently), or the league that allowed that loophole to exist? It's easy to critize players for using the drugs from the cheap seats...but honestly, could you say you wouldn't do the same? If you had the opportunity to financially secure future generations of your family by taking drugs that may drastically shorten your life and AREN'T against the rules, wouldn't you have to at least consider it? Obviously not everyone would do it...and I am not condoning Bonds...but I find it hard to place all the blame on him (or anyone who roided). But in the end, what's worse...not allowing blacks to play (and thus affecting the record books...) or allowing individuals to use performance enhancing drugs (and thus affecting the record books...)? Yet, no one ever questions the records from the "old days". Kind of hypocritical if you ask me. 250316[/snapback] It's the players union. They, way back in the dark days of the strike, REFUSED to allow ANY kind of drug testing to take place amongst their players. Ah, yes, unions. Good for baseball and good for America! [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Sure they have been illegal. Just like drinking under age, or smoking weed, or any other sort of illicit substances. But how many people here partook in those very things when they were younger? And none of us did it to improve our careers...I'm not saying Barry is right, just that the league let it go on under their nose, and you can't fault Barry (or any others) for taking advantage to secure their futures. Still, it drives me nuts to hear people calling for Bonds to be erases from the record books yet the same people get mad if others call for Babe to have an astriks next to his name... I'm not a big race card guy, but if Bonds were white, this wouldn't be as big an issue. It wasn't for McGwire, and Giambi seems to be doing okay since he came out. 251351[/snapback] McGuire and Giambi aren't imminently going to break the HR record, either. Let's put it to you this way, since you can't seem to understand the obvious. Barry Bonds is goig to FOREVER have his name in the record books BECAUSE he used steroids. Because he cheated. That and he's a grade-A arsehole to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 It's the players union. They, way back in the dark days of the strike, REFUSED to allow ANY kind of drug testing to take place amongst their players. Ah, yes, unions. Good for baseball and good for America! [/sarcasm] 251406[/snapback] Absolutely true. But the league was just as guilty. The league understood: More HRs = higher ratings. While the union understood: More HRs = Bigger contracts and endorsement deals. So neither side saw a reason to really dig their noses into it... It's a shame. But I stand by my belief that the "Steroid Era" will be just that, an era in the game that people will forget about. The records will stand (without astriks) and the game will move forward...hopefully for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Absolutely true. But the league was just as guilty. The league understood: More HRs = higher ratings. While the union understood: More HRs = Bigger contracts and endorsement deals. So neither side saw a reason to really dig their noses into it... It's a shame. But I stand by my belief that the "Steroid Era" will be just that, an era in the game that people will forget about. The records will stand (without astriks) and the game will move forward...hopefully for the better. 251413[/snapback] Will people forget? Not if Bonds ends up with the record they won't. Here's to hoping something happens that keeps him from making it. He doesn't deserve it, the cheating bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Will people forget? Not if Bonds ends up with the record they won't. Here's to hoping something happens that keeps him from making it. He doesn't deserve it, the cheating bastard. 251416[/snapback] But why does Babe deserve to be remembered as the second best HR king ever? He had similar advantages himself...What Barry did was illegal, but not against the rules (how's that for whacky). I don't like the guy, but he's going to get the record, and he will be a HOFer. And 50 years from now, no one will care about the Roids, just like no one cares that all the old time records are scewed by having segregated leagues. It will be a footnote, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 But why does Babe deserve to be remembered as the second best HR king ever? He had similar advantages himself...What Barry did was illegal, but not against the rules (how's that for whacky). I don't like the guy, but he's going to get the record, and he will be a HOFer. And 50 years from now, no one will care about the Roids, just like no one cares that all the old time records are scewed by having segregated leagues. It will be a footnote, nothing more. 251425[/snapback] One minor point here: We'll never know IF Babe would have done what he did if leagues were desegregated. We DO know for a fact that steroids will have helped Bonds get to where he is today. Ya dig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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