BarleyNY Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Because that makes our QB look worse, not better. (but seriously, there's flaws with every QB metric out there, if you dig hard enough) Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Why not just use ESPN's QBR since it accounts for both rushing and passing as well as adjusts for garbage time, etc? QBR has a subjective component. I don't discount the value of subjectivity in evaluating QBs, I am just not qualified to add that piece. The purpose of the original post is just point out that a huge part of Seattle's success is attributable to Russell Wilson, not in spite of him. Their seems to be a consistent meme in Bill's world that somehow Seattle's success is a model of how to win with average QB play. But Wilson's productivity lands him among the leagues elite QBs. Seattle is a model of a complete team including an excellent QB. Edited April 1, 2015 by PlayoffsPlease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Has anyone mentioned that he needs sliding lessons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Seattle installed Malzahn's play-option-pass (POP) to their playbooks as an third option to hang off the read option run.. linemen run block.. QB options the DE.. and if the LB has force on the QB run, they sneak a receiver behind him as he gives up coverage. just something extra you can threaten the D with when your QB's got wheels. Roman ran some with Kap.. and i think i even saw EJ hit Spiller in a little go route last year - but that was probably just a roll-out that the LB bit on.. you'll see us run it this year, no doubt.. trick is, to make that decision before your linemen get downfield enough to draw a flag.. Seattle lateral ZBS lends itself to that better than a power scheme.. but there's a great quote somewhere that goes something like , "you can't sell the play-action pass without pulling a guard" - meaning, you have to give the defenders the 'key' they're reading to get them to step up. the play-option pass takes that to a new level, because it's a called run first.. so the linemen's assignments are run block all the way. EJ's pocket passing days aren't over - but he'll run enough to keep Ds honest.. if not him, then Taylor.. frankly, i still don't know why we picked up Cassel.. he's not a threat to execute the whole playbook.. and please don't compare him to Alex Smith.. Smith was a great r/o QB for Meyers at Utah.. far more athletic than Cassel. http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/5/6110155/pop-pass-seahawks-pete-carroll-auburn http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/8/20/6044003/read-option-pass-play-football-xs-os-diagrams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) A statement like this makes me question how much you know. I recommend you watch some of EJ's college videos here: http://draftbreakdown.com/players/ej-manuel/ They are not just highlights, but every passing play he was involved in. You'll notice that running is actually one of his (relatively few) strengths. I normally support Marrone on a lot of things he did, but he and Hackett overreacted to EJ's injuries. They trained him to avoid contact which led to his scared running last season. EJ is strong at escaping the pocket, running the football, size and strength, short and intermediate throws, not causing TOs. When you take one of his strengths away from him (running), he becomes a less efficient QB. He has improved his muscle definition in the right areas since his rookie year to prevent injuries, this means he can start running again. If he does not, he will never reach his full 2016 potential, much less his career ceiling. Edited April 1, 2015 by Beerball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Seattle installed Malzahn's play-option-pass (POP) to their playbooks as an third option to hang off the read option run.. linemen run block.. QB options the DE.. and if the LB has force on the QB run, they sneak a receiver behind him as he gives up coverage. just something extra you can threaten the D with when your QB's got wheels. Roman ran some with Kap.. and i think i even saw EJ hit Spiller in a little go route last year - but that was probably just a roll-out that the LB bit on.. you'll see us run it this year, no doubt.. trick is, to make that decision before your linemen get downfield enough to draw a flag.. Seattle lateral ZBS lends itself to that better than a power scheme.. but there's a great quote somewhere that goes something like , "you can't sell the play-action pass without pulling a guard" - meaning, you have to give the defenders the 'key' they're reading to get them to step up. the play-option pass takes that to a new level, because it's a called run first.. so the linemen's assignments are run block all the way. EJ's pocket passing days aren't over - but he'll run enough to keep Ds honest.. if not him, then Taylor.. frankly, i still don't know why we picked up Cassel.. he's not a threat to execute the whole playbook.. and please don't compare him to Alex Smith.. Smith was a great r/o QB for Meyers at Utah.. far more athletic than Cassel. http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/5/6110155/pop-pass-seahawks-pete-carroll-auburn http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/8/20/6044003/read-option-pass-play-football-xs-os-diagrams Your posts are really helpful to the casual fan, especially having no football exp besides my sons Pop Warner days : ). To your last comment about Cassel. Its obvious why they have him. I think you have just made the point that EJ is who the play calling will cater to. A semi-mobile run threat QB. If Cassel plays its a different game altogether , much as Orton was ? Ej needs to learn to move in the collapsing pocket better more than he needs to learn how to slide. and the spin move? he better learn counter clockwise too if he wants to pull that crap. Roman wants to have the threat of run. I want the threat of the deep ball. we all want a Reese's peanut butter chocolate cup! A statement like this makes me question how much you know. I recommend you watch some of EJ's college videos here: http://draftbreakdown.com/players/ej-manuel/ They are not just highlights, but every passing play he was involved in. You'll notice that running is actually one of his (relatively few) strengths. I normally support Marrone on a lot of things he did, but he and Hackett overreacted to EJ's injuries. They trained him to avoid contact which led to his scared running last season. EJ is strong at escaping the pocket, running the football, size and strength, short and intermediate throws, not causing TOs. When you take one of his strengths away from him (running), he becomes a less efficient QB. He has improved his muscle definition in the right areas since his rookie year to prevent injuries, this means he can start running again. If he does not, he will never reach his full 2016 potential, much less his career ceiling. I hear you. But that type of play is much more difficult in the NFL. and the risk is higher too. But I think he was drafted with consideration of his mobility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I hear you. But that type of play is much more difficult in the NFL. and the risk is higher too. But I think he was drafted with consideration of his mobility Good point. You're right. The previous poster just made such an absolute negative statement that I had to say something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 To me I always look at a guy like Big Ben... he's not a world beater when it comes to running, but he's mobile enough to move around and get out of trouble, while strong enough to shake off certain tackles.... EJ has shown both, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Good point. You're right. The previous poster just made such an absolute negative statement that I had to say something. Understood. i was not criticizing you : ) To me I always look at a guy like Big Ben... he's not a world beater when it comes to running, but he's mobile enough to move around and get out of trouble, while strong enough to shake off certain tackles.... EJ has shown both, imo. If the line can get some consistency in play this year. and EJ can trust his pocket, even if it is collapsing he will go a long way. The way the line played it was hard to get feel i imagine. Especially with his lack of experience. Once he know his guys are going to do everything they can to take care of him he should be able to show some patience and watch the receivers more than the linebackers and edge rushers coming free wanting to take his head off. Ben is a great example of pocket presence, Dorkington. EJ would do well to watch his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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