Ray Rice Wins His Appeal; Immediately Eligible to Play

[NoSaint]

 

Well, for one, the argument is being put forth that he has paid his dues (I feel he skated by and I think the optics of a very selective pre-trial intervention for a star athlete are suspect at best). For two, I don't want him on the Bills. Look, if it's ok for people to not want Mike Vick on the team for his crimes, it's ok for me to hold this opinion. You don't have to like it any more than I have to appreciate the need for a few people to be contrarian on all matters no matter how ludicrous.

 

If these are the kinds of guys you want on the Bills, be my guest. If you don't think they'd face a big PR problem were they to bring him on, I'll be happy to make that bet. OJ also ended up having the law on his side but you can guarantee that neither the league nor the Bills would be going out of their way to showcase him after what happened. It would have been financial suicide. Obviously the magnitudes of the crimes are far different, but the risks are similar for any billion dollar business that deals in public perception. I hope Rice never hits another woman again and pulls his life together, and does good in the world. But I refuse to be ridiculed for not wanting him as a representative of Buffalo or the Bills.

 

I think there's a big difference between not wanting him on your team, and thinking he should be banned for life from the sport. I don't particularly want to cheer for a Vick or rice but I don't think rice is in the top 50 (semi-random number) players that should be banned for conduct of we went down that road.

Edited November 29, 2014 by NoSaint

[Mr. WEO]

The commissioner changed his punishment based on a bald face lie. He stated that his original sentencing was based on testimoney that was incomplete and that his more severe re-sentencing was based on the fact the Rice was not forthcoming in all the details. That is simply not true. The commissioner changed his punishment due to public pressure and not because what he originally learned from Rice was anything different later on.

 

It doesn't matter what others think or what the public's attitude is in this matter. The process in which Rice was punished was tainted because the commissioner who had the unfettered authority to make a ruling blatantly lied. The issue isn't about a thug and his mongrel behavior; the issue is about the person who sits atop the multi-billion $$$$ institution is unethical. The process being corrupt, and not the reprobate involved in the elevator incident, is the central issue here.

 

There is no doubt that the commissioner is not going to be fired because the business is still making an extraoridinary amount of money for the owners. But that doesn't change the fact that Goodell is fully exposed as a liar and a person who lacks integrity.

 

 

 

I challenge you to find any clause in his job description that allows him to lie and act without integrity.

 

You said he was a hack who prostrates himself to the desires of the owners. I told you that was his job. They told him to handle this. When the video came out and the public went wild, screaming for Rice's blood, the owners no doubt told Goodell to respond to the outcry and serve up Rice on a platter, which he did. So I really don't know what your beef is with Goodell. No one cares that he lied when he said he was misinformed--we ALL knew what happened in the elevator after we saw him dragging his KO'd wife out of the elevator. The video was his excuse to increased the penalty because that's what everyone wanted to happen. He lied? Yeah, but so what? In the end, everyone got what they wanted: the public got it's pound of flesh, the NFL (briefly) looked like they considered domestic violence a serious matter, and Ray Rice got back in the league and the owners got to remain above it all--letting Goodell take every shot to the head throughout. All right on script for our entertainment.

 

The irony of course is the guy who beat his wife unconscious looks like the sympathetic figure to a certain type of football fan who reserve their ire instead for the guy who tried to punish him.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I think there's a big difference between not wanting him on your team, and thinking he should be banned for life from the sport. I don't particularly want to cheer for a Vick or rice but I don't think rice is in the top 50 (semi-random number) players that should be banned for conduct of we went down that road.

I never said he should be banned and I don't believe he should be.

[NoSaint]

 

I never said he should be banned and I don't believe he should be.

I think quite a few here do believe that though. Which muddies the discussion some as I also think quite a few are chalking the discussion up as either pro rice or anti with little of the grey area. I have no problem with your take (probably pretty close to mine)....

[Talley56]

Seems a bit of an overreaction.

 

No, not at all, people go to prison for doing it, and well-deserved to.

 

No. No way. He did what dozens of other sports athletes have done.

 

And he got caught, just like dozens of other sports athletes. The video didnt show anything new.

Just because other athletes have done it doesn't make it okay.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Talley56

[FireChan]

No, not at all, people go to prison for doing it, and well-deserved to.

 

 

Just because other athletes have done it doesn't make it okay.

 

But it does make the sceaming masses hypocrites for caring about this one case over the dozens of others, no?

 

Well, for one, the argument is being put forth that he has paid his dues (I feel he skated by and I think the optics of a very selective pre-trial intervention for a star athlete are suspect at best). For two, I don't want him on the Bills. Look, if it's ok for people to not want Mike Vick on the team for his crimes, it's ok for me to hold this opinion. You don't have to like it any more than I have to appreciate the need for a few people to be contrarian on all matters no matter how ludicrous.

 

If these are the kinds of guys you want on the Bills, be my guest. If you don't think they'd face a big PR problem were they to bring him on, I'll be happy to make that bet. OJ also ended up having the law on his side but you can guarantee that neither the league nor the Bills would be going out of their way to showcase him after what happened. It would have been financial suicide. Obviously the magnitudes of the crimes are far different, but the risks are similar for any billion dollar business that deals in public perception. I hope Rice never hits another woman again and pulls his life together, and does good in the world. But I refuse to be ridiculed for not wanting him as a representative of Buffalo or the Bills.

 

I believe the argument is that he paid his dues from the NFL, not the legal system, no?

 

That's fine if you don't want him on the Bills. I get that it'd be hard to cheer for him. The crux of the issue for many is why there'd be PR retaliation.

Edited November 29, 2014 by FireChan

[Rob's House]

 

 

No, not at all, people go to prison for doing it, and well-deserved to.

 

 

It's rare that anyone goes to prison for hitting someone once unless they've got a long record or cause permanent injury or death. Neither of those is present. A lifetime ban from the NFL for hitting one person one time is grossly disproportionate to consequences for similar actions.

 

 

Well, for one, the argument is being put forth that he has paid his dues (I feel he skated by and I think the optics of a very selective pre-trial intervention for a star athlete are suspect at best). For two, I don't want him on the Bills. Look, if it's ok for people to not want Mike Vick on the team for his crimes, it's ok for me to hold this opinion. You don't have to like it any more than I have to appreciate the need for a few people to be contrarian on all matters no matter how ludicrous.

 

If these are the kinds of guys you want on the Bills, be my guest. If you don't think they'd face a big PR problem were they to bring him on, I'll be happy to make that bet. OJ also ended up having the law on his side but you can guarantee that neither the league nor the Bills would be going out of their way to showcase him after what happened. It would have been financial suicide. Obviously the magnitudes of the crimes are far different, but the risks are similar for any billion dollar business that deals in public perception. I hope Rice never hits another woman again and pulls his life together, and does good in the world. But I refuse to be ridiculed for not wanting him as a representative of Buffalo or the Bills.

 

Regardless of how you feel,you'd be hard pressed to find people in America who Have lost as much for similar crimes under similar circumstances.

[RuntheDamnBall]

It's rare that anyone goes to prison for hitting someone once unless they've got a long record or cause permanent injury or death. Neither of those is present. A lifetime ban from the NFL for hitting one person one time is grossly disproportionate to consequences for similar actions.

 

 

 

Regardless of how you feel,you'd be hard pressed to find people in America who Have lost as much for similar crimes under similar circumstances.

I'm certain he had a lot to lose. As would anyone in a high-profile, high-earning position of power. I do ask: whose fault is that? The media did not make the guy punch his GF. And if a fortune 500 exec decked his wife on camera and dragged her outdoors I would also hope he wouldn't get preference for a pre-trial intervention program any more than a poor person would. If I did all of this, I'd surely go to trial, lose my job, and more.

 

You're right, there are two different courts weighing in, here, and I don't think the NFL should have gone any further -- or perhaps as far -- as they did. But if Rice were in jail or at least awaiting trial for this, it would be a moot point, no? This secondary judgment about "how much he had to lose" is pretty meaningless. The person who lost the most is the person who got their skull crushed by a pro athlete in a tight space.

 

If any NFL team wants him because they feel he's served his time and it won't look like a black eye on the franchise, more power to them. If and when this happens, I think plenty of women will feel like abusers are enabled, because they see a shining example of abuse coming back to Jesus and his millions. You're a bright guy and I have to believe you would be skeptical of Rice's redemption story, or that he would be one of the few reformed abusers who never ever does it again.

 

That's fine if you don't want him on the Bills. I get that it'd be hard to cheer for him. The crux of the issue for many is why there'd be PR retaliation.

For me, it's because he really hasn't paid his dues from the legal system, end of story. Goodell is fickle and bends with the wind. Whatever punishment he dishes out is not because of any strongly held belief, IMO.

[JohnC]

You said he was a hack who prostrates himself to the desires of the owners. I told you that was his job. They told him to handle this. When the video came out and the public went wild, screaming for Rice's blood, the owners no doubt told Goodell to respond to the outcry and serve up Rice on a platter, which he did. So I really don't know what your beef is with Goodell. No one cares that he lied when he said he was misinformed--we ALL knew what happened in the elevator after we saw him dragging his KO'd wife out of the elevator. The video was his excuse to increased the penalty because that's what everyone wanted to happen. He lied? Yeah, but so what? In the end, everyone got what they wanted: the public got it's pound of flesh, the NFL (briefly) looked like they considered domestic violence a serious matter, and Ray Rice got back in the league and the owners got to remain above it all--letting Goodell take every shot to the head throughout. All right on script for our entertainment.

 

The irony of course is the guy who beat his wife unconscious looks like the sympathetic figure to a certain type of football fan who reserve their ire instead for the guy who tried to punish him.

 

You elevate the concept of cynicism to a very high level.

 

Sure the owners wanted Goodell to handle this tawdry incident and make it go away with the least public response. What they didn't want to happen is that their flunky puppet be exposed as a craven liar who reacted in a manner that severely damaged his credibility. What good is a puppet if the veneer of fairness is lost. As evidence by this correct judgment by the arbitrator (very easy call) the players are better positioned to challenge not only further rulings but challenge the puppet's authority to make judgments on other labor issues.

 

In my view, maybe not yours, the owners are not happy that their fully bought representative of their lucrative entreprise is exposed as a feckless sheriff with no bulletts in his guns. His authority to act on their behalf has been diminished. It is difficult for someone who is a self-serving liar to issue moral proclamations about the integrity of the game when his cloak of integrity has been stripped away.

 

The central issue isn't about Ray Rice and his disgusting behavior. The main issue is that the process of adjudicating/resolving labor issues, not just disciplinary matters, is tainted to the point that the players are moe empowered because their bought for lackey is fully exposed. You can be very sure that the owners are not happy about the slight tilt in balance toward the players.

Edited November 29, 2014 by JohnC

[NoSaint]

 

I'm certain he had a lot to lose. As would anyone in a high-profile, high-earning position of power. I do ask: whose fault is that? The media did not make the guy punch his GF. And if a fortune 500 exec decked his wife on camera and dragged her outdoors I would also hope he wouldn't get preference for a pre-trial intervention program any more than a poor person would. If I did all of this, I'd surely go to trial, lose my job, and more.

 

You're right, there are two different courts weighing in, here, and I don't think the NFL should have gone any further -- or perhaps as far -- as they did. But if Rice were in jail or at least awaiting trial for this, it would be a moot point, no? This secondary judgment about "how much he had to lose" is pretty meaningless. The person who lost the most is the person who got their skull crushed by a pro athlete in a tight space.

 

If any NFL team wants him because they feel he's served his time and it won't look like a black eye on the franchise, more power to them. If and when this happens, I think plenty of women will feel like abusers are enabled, because they see a shining example of abuse coming back to Jesus and his millions. You're a bright guy and I have to believe you would be skeptical of Rice's redemption story, or that he would be one of the few reformed abusers who never ever does it again.

The incident was a single punch coming up on a year ago- truly I'm not sure how many guys would still be tangled in the legal system with an otherwise clean record. I can't speak to the jersey system beyond commenting that I've read articles that as first time offenders go, he was pretty standard issue in his he was handled. But even there I'll say who knows how accurate reporters are - it does make me feel like he's in the same ballpark there though.

 

The thing that gets me thinking reading this post this morning is that there's a strong sentiment that the being an nfl player is a privilege and by proxy a guy that excels at the skill set should be kept out because he'd be well paid and an abuser shouldn't be well paid for a job they excel at. I get the PR question marks and that being enough to reduce a guys pay, but I don't know that him being employed outside a gas station empowers abusers.

 

As to recidivism- Id venture surely it's high but I also think it's dangerous to treat anyone convicted as if it's 100% repeated. Why even let them out in the first place if it's incurable and guaranteed to happen again and again....

[RuntheDamnBall]

The incident was a single punch coming up on a year ago- truly I'm not sure how many guys would still be tangled in the legal system with an otherwise clean record. I can't speak to the jersey system beyond commenting that I've read articles that as first time offenders go, he was pretty standard issue in his he was handled. But even there I'll say who knows how accurate reporters are - it does make me feel like he's in the same ballpark there though.

 

The thing that gets me thinking reading this post this morning is that there's a strong sentiment that the being an nfl player is a privilege and by proxy a guy that excels at the skill set should be kept out because he'd be well paid and an abuser shouldn't be well paid for a job they excel at. I get the PR question marks and that being enough to reduce a guys pay, but I don't know that him being employed outside a gas station empowers abusers.

 

As to recidivism- Id venture surely it's high but I also think it's dangerous to treat anyone convicted as if it's 100% repeated. Why even let them out in the first place if it's incurable and guaranteed to happen again and again....

Fair enough. I have a problem with the legal system treating it that way, if that's truly the case. If someone assaulted my mom, wife, or daughters, with ironclad evidence to the fact -- and to the pretty cold-hearted nature of the incident -- I'd want him to face some prison time, period.

 

But your points are well-enough made.

 

I simply want society to look at this differently than it apparently does, whether it's the gas station attendant or the high-profile athlete.

[26CornerBlitz]

[Kellyto83TD]

Sign him now. We need him. He can be a positive example if he chooses to be.

[NoSaint]

 

Fair enough. I have a problem with the legal system treating it that way, if that's truly the case. If someone assaulted my mom, wife, or daughters, with ironclad evidence to the fact -- and to the pretty cold-hearted nature of the incident -- I'd want him to face some prison time, period.

 

But your points are well-enough made.

 

I simply want society to look at this differently than it apparently does, whether it's the gas station attendant or the high-profile athlete.

 

I get it- and know that if it were my mom or daughter Id want to kill the guy. I think we aren't terribly far off in our feelings on the issue, simply looking at it from slightly different angles for today's discussion.

 

As always though - I appreciate you being a thoughtful poster on issues like this and being willing to have the discussions.

[Maury Ballstein]

Sign him now. We need him. He can be a positive example if he chooses to be.

 

Hows his footwork ?

[JohnC]

The incident was a single punch coming up on a year ago- truly I'm not sure how many guys would still be tangled in the legal system with an otherwise clean record. I can't speak to the jersey system beyond commenting that I've read articles that as first time offenders go, he was pretty standard issue in his he was handled. But even there I'll say who knows how accurate reporters are - it does make me feel like he's in the same ballpark there though.

 

The thing that gets me thinking reading this post this morning is that there's a strong sentiment that the being an nfl player is a privilege and by proxy a guy that excels at the skill set should be kept out because he'd be well paid and an abuser shouldn't be well paid for a job they excel at. I get the PR question marks and that being enough to reduce a guys pay, but I don't know that him being employed outside a gas station empowers abusers.

 

As to recidivism- Id venture surely it's high but I also think it's dangerous to treat anyone convicted as if it's 100% repeated. Why even let them out in the first place if it's incurable and guaranteed to happen again and again....

 

It's interesting to note how many people are upset that a person involved in a criminal act who acknowledges his transgression, changes his behavior for the good and works to recapture the family unit are upset that he will be allowed to go back to work if given the opportunity. It seems few people are bothered by the corrupt process that changed his punishment and kept him from going back to work.

 

The legal system worked marvelously well in this case. Someone involved in a crime was punished and held accountable. Then the person worked to redeem himself. Still many people (the moralists) believe that the system didn't work. It's ridiculous!

[26CornerBlitz]

Another Blemish For Goodell

Former Ravens running back Ray Rice has won his appeal for reinstatement and is eligible to sign with any team.

 

Roger Goodell had this coming to him, this damning 17-page report that hit him like a linebacker blitzing from the blind side. The commissioner of the National Football League came up so small and weak in initially handing Ray Rice a two-game suspension that he deserved to have a former federal judge reinstate the running back and announce to the world that Goodell was full of it.

 

The commissioner indefinitely suspended Rice in September for his violent assault on the woman who would become his wife because, he said, Rice had given him an account at odds with what appeared in the video TMZ aired of the February incident inside an Atlantic City, New Jersey, casino elevator. Goodell said Rice "misled" him in June before the first penalty was announced, and that's why he gave himself a do-over and lowered the boom.

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

You elevate the concept of cynicism to a very high level.

 

Sure the owners wanted Goodell to handle this tawdry incident and make it go away with the least public response. What they didn't want to happen is that their flunky puppet be exposed as a craven liar who reacted in a manner that severely damaged his credibility. What good is a puppet if the veneer of fairness is lost. As evidence by this correct judgment by the arbitrator (very easy call) the players are better positioned to challenge not only further rulings but challenge the puppet's authority to make judgments on other labor issues.

 

In my view, maybe not yours, the owners are not happy that their fully bought representative of their lucrative entreprise is exposed as a feckless sheriff with no bulletts in his guns. His authority to act on their behalf has been diminished. It is difficult for someone who is a self-serving liar to issue moral proclamations about the integrity of the game when his cloak of integrity has been stripped away.

 

The central issue isn't about Ray Rice and his disgusting behavior. The main issue is that the process of adjudicating/resolving labor issues, not just disciplinary matters, is tainted to the point that the players are moe empowered because their bought for lackey is fully exposed. You can be very sure that the owners are not happy about the slight tilt in balance toward the players.

 

"Adjudicating labor disputes", such as they are, is clearly spelled out in the CBA and all power Goodell has is given willingly to him by the NFLPA.

 

Let me ask you this: what would her been the outcome if Goodell stuck with 2 games no matter that the video would later come out. You know, let's say he ignored the public outcry and even more monumental PR disaster for the owners if he just said "hey, sorry everyone, but this is a 2 game offense in the NFL, that's how we view spousal abuse".

 

You cannot be serious that that is how the owners wanted him to represent them-- but that was his only other choice when the video came out. There is no doubt that they told him to sacrifice Rice. They know it would put Goodell in a bind. they had to know (the owner of the Ravens absolutely knew) Goodell would have to lie to justify the increase in suspension.

 

And now you're pretending the owners are shocked, shocked! That Goodell has been caught in a lie? Come on, John..

 

And I don't care if Rice gets 2 games, 6 or every game as a suspension. sure, let him come back to the NFL, he's hardly the worst man playing the game right now. But your overwrought attack on Goodell fails to acknowledge the big picture. This will quickly fade away-- and I bet this will be a bonus for Goodell and the league. In the future, these violent domestic abuse cases in the future will be handled by some blue ribbon panel of individuals picked by the NFL and no doubt will be stacked with people who would not be inclined to give the next abuser the usual 2 games. I would such a panel filled with women's rights advocates and spousal abuse experts would take the next Ray Rice and put him straight out of the league--and there won't be any crying over the "imperious" Goodell at that point. Ol' Rog (and his bosses) will just kick back and let that side show do its thing, completely relieved.

 

No owner has even suggested Goodell should be or even might be fired over this. The obvious reason is that they know all of what went on and they understand that it costs $44 million a year to pay for their bodyguard.

[Tintonfallsbillsfan]

If Mike Vick is playing Rice will get a shot.

[Mr. WEO]

If Mike Vick is playing Rice will get a shot.

 

Vick repaid his debt to society for his crimes.