Clippers of Nfl Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 When is a year in which a QB has 13 TD and 20 INT a good year? Or 17/15, for that matter? And again ... who cares if he was good in college? How many PHENOMENAL college quarterbacks have sucked in the NFL? A lot. Re: his rushes whilst in the NFL ... why? Were they designed runs? Or were they broken plays - which broke because he was unable to read a defense? I've already conceded that he was a decent college QB. I still opine that he sucked in the NFL ... as a QB and as a teammate. And what's the pool of players over 40 that he beat out for that ridiculous "accolade?" I think your "suck" meter is off Gugny. If you win games you dont suck. Ask Jp, Trent, Fitz, Ej, list goes on and on. They may be ugly wins, but wins are wins. You wanted peyton numbers from him and that's just not fair. That's not who he was. I think if you just didnt like him because of xyz or personal choice, that would be understandable. But to say dumb stuff like worse bill ever or he sucked is silly. With no one (rookie Brees) to back him up. He also sucked that year and was never named a starter again. I was responding to the poster who said he was never a starter again, which is dead wrong. Kinda like you bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 When is a year in which a QB has 13 TD and 20 INT a good year? Or 17/15, for that matter? And again ... who cares if he was good in college? How many PHENOMENAL college quarterbacks have sucked in the NFL? A lot. Re: his rushes whilst in the NFL ... why? Were they designed runs? Or were they broken plays - which broke because he was unable to read a defense? I've already conceded that he was a decent college QB. I still opine that he sucked in the NFL ... as a QB and as a teammate. And what's the pool of players over 40 that he beat out for that ridiculous "accolade?" Is this something you know from a source you can share or just your opinion? You keep saying this but he was finalist for a Rhodes Scholarship I am sure he was smart enough to read defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Here's the August 2001 SI article by Tim Layden that people were referencing earlier: Calm Before the Storm. Also dug up a John Warwow articleabout the subject post-SI article. Wonder if JW has some insight on this now. EDIT: My bad, this isn't the SI article being discussed, it was a post-mortem after Flutie was gone. I'll keep digging to see if I can find it. Edited October 23, 2014 by TheLynchTrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The thing about Flutie was that he really embraced this region, and some "fans" hated on him for no reason. I think if he hadn't been criticized so much by the dorks on WGR there never would have been much of a QB controversy leading up to the '99 playoff games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I haven't read all the posts on this topic so I apologize if I'm repeating something, but keep in mind that the Bills gave up a lot in the trade for Rob Johnson, and there's always a push from the front office to make their deals work out. I think I remember that Ralph Wilson was personally involved in the trade for Johnson, after watching Johnson look incredible with his former team in ONE GAME (I think he went 22 out of 24 passing). So there was always this controversy, that by playing Flutie the Bills were holding back on developing Johnson. Flutie was a great competitor and leader, and we remember when he found ways to pull out a miracle win. We don't remember the losses or the times he didn't get the job done, when a more traditional QB like Johnson might have succeeded. We will never resolve this but the outcome was a big contributor to the disaster of the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I think your "suck" meter is off Gugny. If you win games you dont suck. Ask Jp, Trent, Fitz, Ej, list goes on and on. They may be ugly wins, but wins are wins. You wanted peyton numbers from him and that's just not fair. That's not who he was. I think if you just didnt like him because of xyz or personal choice, that would be understandable. But to say dumb stuff like worse bill ever or he sucked is silly. I was responding to the poster who said he was never a starter again, which is dead wrong. Kinda like you bud. I thought I made it pretty clear that it wasn't just how much he sucked on the field that makes me hate him. He had no respect for the game. He had no respect for his teammates. He had no respect for the organization. That's why he ... in my mind ... was the worst Bill, ever. It's my opinion. I am not stating it as fact. So call my opinion dumb, bud, all you want to. Furthermore, teams win. Teams lose. Quarterbacks do neither. I said I don't believe many games were won because of his quarterbacking. I also don't believe we lost many games because of his quarterbacking. The statistics ... Quarterback statistics - not wins/losses, which are team statistics ... clearly show that Doug Flutie was not a good quarterback. Not even a little bit. I never expected Peyton numbers from him. And that's not only because Peyton was a child at the time. It's also because I never expected Flutie to be great. You know why? Because he sucked BEFORE he got to Buffalo. I will never expect any Bills QB to be another Manning. Those kinds of QBs are the exception and not the rule. By a long shot. You're twisting my opinion into something that it isn't. It's this simple. I believe that Flutie was a horrible QB in the NFL. I believe Flutie was a horrible teammate in the NFL. I believe Flutie was concerned about one thing ... and that's Doug Flutie. Nothing more. Nothing less. Nothing about his college career. Nothing about him being a dad. Or a drummer. Or anything other than a member of the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I thought I made it pretty clear that it wasn't just how much he sucked on the field that makes me hate him. He had no respect for the game. He had no respect for his teammates. He had no respect for the organization. That's why he ... in my mind ... was the worst Bill, ever. It's my opinion. I am not stating it as fact. So call my opinion dumb, bud, all you want to. Furthermore, teams win. Teams lose. Quarterbacks do neither. I said I don't believe many games were won because of his quarterbacking. I also don't believe we lost many games because of his quarterbacking. The statistics ... Quarterback statistics - not wins/losses, which are team statistics ... clearly show that Doug Flutie was not a good quarterback. Not even a little bit. I never expected Peyton numbers from him. And that's not only because Peyton was a child at the time. It's also because I never expected Flutie to be great. You know why? Because he sucked BEFORE he got to Buffalo. I will never expect any Bills QB to be another Manning. Those kinds of QBs are the exception and not the rule. By a long shot. You're twisting my opinion into something that it isn't. It's this simple. I believe that Flutie was a horrible QB in the NFL. I believe Flutie was a horrible teammate in the NFL. I believe Flutie was concerned about one thing ... and that's Doug Flutie. Nothing more. Nothing less. Nothing about his college career. Nothing about him being a dad. Or a drummer. Or anything other than a member of the Buffalo Bills. Sounds like you dreamed up a bunch of negative stuff in your head, attributed it to Flutie, and decided to hate him for it just like you did Rush Limbaugh and Miller High Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I thought I made it pretty clear that it wasn't just how much he sucked on the field that makes me hate him. He had no respect for the game. He had no respect for his teammates. He had no respect for the organization. That's why he ... in my mind ... was the worst Bill, ever. It's my opinion. I am not stating it as fact. So call my opinion dumb, bud, all you want to. Furthermore, teams win. Teams lose. Quarterbacks do neither. I said I don't believe many games were won because of his quarterbacking. I also don't believe we lost many games because of his quarterbacking. The statistics ... Quarterback statistics - not wins/losses, which are team statistics ... clearly show that Doug Flutie was not a good quarterback. Not even a little bit. I never expected Peyton numbers from him. And that's not only because Peyton was a child at the time. It's also because I never expected Flutie to be great. You know why? Because he sucked BEFORE he got to Buffalo. I will never expect any Bills QB to be another Manning. Those kinds of QBs are the exception and not the rule. By a long shot. You're twisting my opinion into something that it isn't. It's this simple. I believe that Flutie was a horrible QB in the NFL. I believe Flutie was a horrible teammate in the NFL. I believe Flutie was concerned about one thing ... and that's Doug Flutie. Nothing more. Nothing less. Nothing about his college career. Nothing about him being a dad. Or a drummer. Or anything other than a member of the Buffalo Bills. I get what you're trying to say. But I have to point out when you're wrong HATER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) I get what you're trying to say. But I have to point out when you're wrong HATER. Provide Flutie's NFL stats prior to his arrival in Buffalo that show that he was good. Sounds like you dreamed up a bunch of negative stuff in your head, attributed it to Flutie, and decided to hate him for it just like you did Rush Limbaugh and Miller High Life. So the article that Bandit posted was made up? And Bandit hear made up things from other people in the press, too? As far as Miller High Life, I merely stated that I didn't think many people still drank it. Not going down the Limbaugh road. This thread is about an overrated, egotistical, phony former Buffalo Bill. If someone creates a thread about a blowhard, racist drug addict, then we can discuss Limbaugh. *** Clippers ... About those pre-Buffalo Bills stats ... don't bother - I just looked. You'll just embarrass yourself and I don't want that. Edited October 23, 2014 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 So the article that Bandit posted was made up? And Bandit hear made up things from other people in the press, too? That guy's just mad because Flutie wouldn't sign an autograph for him and probably made fun of him in front of other fans who laughed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Provide Flutie's NFL stats prior to his arrival in Buffalo that show that he was good. Dude you know that's not fair. He got his nfl recognition by becoming a bill. What you're asking is like asking me to show you a picture of Einsteins spaceship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 He's widely regarded as the greatest player in CFL history. And he was 37 years old in 1999 when he started for the Bills. To suggest he had no talent is just plain silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Dude you know that's not fair. He got his nfl recognition by becoming a bill. What you're asking is like asking me to show you a picture of Einsteins spaceship. Its seems the only way to prove the argument is to pull out his bad stats and to disregard anything good he did in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Its seems the only way to prove the argument is to pull out his bad stats and to disregard anything good he did in his career. He did nothing good in his NFL career. He was great in college. He was great in the CFL. He obviously had talent. Just not enough to be a good NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 He did nothing good in his NFL career. He was great in college. He was great in the CFL. He obviously had talent. Just not enough to be a good NFL QB. Keep on hatin. I really give up now. But before I go, Can you explain how Aaron Maybin is better than Flutie again ON THE FIELD? "Maybin tries hard" didnt really convince me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Provide Flutie's NFL stats prior to his arrival in Buffalo that show that he was good. So the article that Bandit posted was made up? And Bandit hear made up things from other people in the press, too? As far as Miller High Life, I merely stated that I didn't think many people still drank it. Not going down the Limbaugh road. This thread is about an overrated, egotistical, phony former Buffalo Bill. If someone creates a thread about a blowhard, racist drug addict, then we can discuss Limbaugh. *** Clippers ... About those pre-Buffalo Bills stats ... don't bother - I just looked. You'll just embarrass yourself and I don't want that. You sound like a scorned lover. Hell hath no fury and all that... http://blogs.democra...-history/?p=397 Read Marcellus Wiley's quote in there. Probably carries more weight than good ol' Bucky Gleason. If Flutie doesn't get benched, the Bills just might have won the Super Bowl that year. You'd still probably hate him, but more power to you. Edited October 23, 2014 by QB Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 In life there are certain traits that people have that may make them successful in one arena -- but unsuccessful elsewhere. In athletics it may not necessarily be physical talent -- but some special motivating factor that allows a professional athlete to excel at his preferred sport -- but fail elsewhere in life. Michael Jordan and Pete Rose are two obvious examples as their off-the-charts competitiveness made them so great at their respective sports but also hindered them in life afterwards. In the NFL, Thurman Thomas and Tom Brady are two good examples of guys who were under-appreciated coming into the league, and used that under-appreciation as an extreme chip on their shoulder to excel and defy odds. Flutie was like that too. Under-sized, mediocre arm -- but an enormous chip on his shoulder that he carries to this day. I think the fact that he was 5'9" and 175 lbs made him seem like an every-man to the masses. He was an easy guy to root for in those regards, compared to Rob Johnson, who had that prototypical NFL QB physique -- but was completely out-of-touch. Because Flutie always felt under-appreciated and underestimated, he used that to his advantage to motivate himself. At the end of the day, this turned more into paranoia than anything else -- as he devolved into being a bad teammate: Taking full credit for 13-10 style victories and imposing a You-are-either-for-me-or-against-me atmosphere in the locker room regarding the QB rivalry. It was a shame, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Keep on hatin. I really give up now. But before I go, Can you explain how Aaron Maybin is better than Flutie again ON THE FIELD? "Maybin tries hard" didnt really convince me. Yes ... Flutie was a better QB than Maybin was a LB. I'm sorry if you thought I meant otherwise. It's not so much about what Maybin did that Flutie didn't do. It's about what Maybin didn't do that Flutie did. And I'm not talking about on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 He did nothing good in his NFL career. He was great in college. He was great in the CFL. He obviously had talent. Just not enough to be a good NFL QB. Actually let's look at more stats 1998 flutie named to the pro bowl. 10-6 1999 flutie goes 10-5 and most likely would have killed the colts too. 2000 as a back up goes 4-1 So what do you mean not good enough to be an nfl qb. Rob Johnson goes 4-7 with same team in 2000. So obviosuly Flutie does make a difference. How do you challenge this Gugny? Nothing good in in his nfl career doesnt make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Pro Bowl is a joke. I don't care how many Pro Bowls anyone goes to. It's a joke. It's like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. For the last time ... WINS AND LOSSES ARE NOT QUARTERBACK STATISTICS. THEY ARE TEAM STATISTICS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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