Spiderweb Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Win a game by himself. That is something he has NEVER done as a QB. He has ALWAYS had a good team around him. Manning, Vick, Culpepper, Farve, McNair and McNabb have all done this. I challenge you to find a game where Brady put the team on his shoulders and carried them to victory without the defense making a big play or a miracle bounce. 216831[/snapback] He does have numerous comebacks (see other posts). Do you ever stop to think that he might play a full game so that it doesn't come down to having to pull them out week after week in the 4th? What I see is a QB who puts the ball in very catchable places for his receivers, and a receiving corp that doesn't drop very many. The system crap is just that, crap. Was Montana a "system QB"? That was the argument against him while he played (until the end of his career anyway). Was Steve Young a "system QB", Unitas, Starr, Fouts, Marino, Kelly? Everyone of these guys had the opportunity to play in systems that allowed them to excel, but they were all outstanding in their own right as well. I've always despised the Pats and hope their fall starts against the Eagles, but I won't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 He does have numerous comebacks (see other posts). Do you ever stop to think that he might play a full game so that it doesn't come down to having to pull them out week after week in the 4th? What I see is a QB who puts the ball in very catchable places for his receivers, and a receiving corp that doesn't drop very many. The system crap is just that, crap. Was Montana a "system QB"? That was the argument against him while he played (until the end of his career anyway). Was Steve Young a "system QB", Unitas, Starr, Fouts, Marino, Kelly? Everyone of these guys had the opportunity to play in systems that allowed them to excel, but they were all outstanding in their own right as well. I've always despised the Pats and hope their fall starts against the Eagles, but I won't hold my breath. 217011[/snapback] I hate when coaches put players in a position to succeed by playing to their strengths instead of their weaknesses. Baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I hate when coaches put players in a position to succeed by playing to their strengths instead of their weaknesses. Baffling. 217021[/snapback] Exactly.... I might add that Mularkey showed a bit of this which was a pleasant surprise after the Williams-Gilbride "my system or die" philosphy. I believe we'll be stronger next year with or without the Drewster. Optimist? You bet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alg Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Manning is a system QB too. Chump. Look: if a QB executes a "system" to near perfection, does that make him a bad QB? Montana was the perfect WCO QB- couldn't throw the deep ball but was very accurate. Does that tarnish his image? The Brady bashers are loco. The guy is like a friggin' robot- he's one of the most disciplined QBs I've ever seen, and seemingly can't be rattled by a mistake. 216885[/snapback] Manning IS the system. Chump. Really, why do people have to call someone names to make a point. Does it have to do with a lack of gray matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I hate when coaches put players in a position to succeed by playing to their strengths instead of their weaknesses. Baffling. 217021[/snapback] What I want to know is what exactly people think Brady's weaknesses are. He doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, but as his TD to Branch showed, he can put the deep ball on the money. He's not mobile, but he can move around well in the pocket. And of course, the short- to medium-range passing game is his forte. So what exactly are people basing it on when they say he wouldn't succeed in a different system? Maybe he wouldn't, and I'm overlooking something, but I wish there were a better argument than "Brady sucks. Look how much better Manning's stats are!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash2Burn Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Win a game by himself. That is something he has NEVER done as a QB. He has ALWAYS had a good team around him. Manning, Vick, Culpepper, Farve, McNair and McNabb have all done this. I challenge you to find a game where Brady put the team on his shoulders and carried them to victory without the defense making a big play or a miracle bounce. 216831[/snapback] Uh...why do you think he has those two SB MVPs...could it have something to do with putting together two of the greatest winning drives ever, the second one with less than 2:00 to play. What's wrong with all the "rookie" class posters today? I keep seeing all these posts dishing Brady. Anybody who'se watched the NFL for more than few years (as an adult, anyway) has to give the guy credit for being a great clutch perfomer. Enough with the "system" crap. The Pat's don't do anything exotic (west coast, offense, etc.). If anything, they're one of the most basic offenses in the league...way less complex/tricky than the Bills, I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 But would you say better than Montana or Brady? (seriously) 216630[/snapback] Unitas was better than both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundy249 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Yup. Both QBs would succeed in spite of what system they played in. Some systems would make them more successful, but they would still be great QBs. You can't say the same for Brady. 216807[/snapback] I dont know what game you watched yesterday? Vick sucks...When he plays a good team he gets schooled every time. We will see how Donavan does against a real team in the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATBNG Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Top Ten is a stretch. He REALLY IS a system QB gang. To some degree all players are. Give the guy credit for hard work and improvement, but please, its the system. You don't think Belichek would be winning SBs with Manning? With Manning they would simply do next day delivery and cancel the game. Flame away, but in my mind Montana is the same animal. Is it a coincidence that he is HOF, and that Steve Young will be voted in this year? No coincidence. Heh, give these guys credit for sure, but lets stop the B.O.A.T. cr@p if you don't mind. 216676[/snapback] Belichick's career record as a HC broken in two: Before Brady: 42-58 (inc. 1-1 playoffs) After Brady: 56-14 (inc. 8-0 playoffs) If "the system" is responsible for Brady's success, then why the above numbers? Why didn't Kosar, Vinnie and Drew garner victories at an 80% clip? BTW, I don't think it is right to put Brady in the top three, ten or whatever, nor should you discount him now. I think you should evaluate careers when they are over. He has the opportunity to win championships like no other QB before him because of his age and accomplishments thus far, but let's see how it plays out first (starting with the game 13 days from now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 BTW, I don't think it is right to put Brady in the top three, ten or whatever, nor should you discount him now. I think you should evaluate careers when they are over. He has the opportunity to win championships like no other QB before him because of his age and accomplishments thus far, but let's see how it plays out first (starting with the game 13 days from now). 217095[/snapback] Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Get over it dude....Brady is the best QB in football right now. It seems like so many people are jealous, they are blinding themselves to some really fine football. Right on. I think the Brady/Patriot bashers on this board are ridiculously jealous of their success. The Pats are the model for how to run and sustain a successful NFL team. They've managed to position themself with good draft choices (including multiple 1st rounders), kept their cap numbers within reason, not let the injury bug slow them down, and are about to be in (and probably win) their 3rd Superbowl in four years. They have shown nothing but class. They preach a team effort, and have done what they've done in a very humble way, without a lot of foolish showboating. The over-envious Brady bashers on this board would be the first to be drooling over his greatness if the Bills were ever in a position to gain the use of his services. The Patriots are a top-notch team in just about every way. Yeah, too bad they happen to be in our team's division, but that shouldn't diminish anyone's view of what they are. Not recognizing it is babyish and shows true lack of sportsmanship. Hopefully, our Bills will rise to challenge them in the near future, keeping the same degree of class on the way there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Hooks Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I think it's a combination of the right system, the right coach, and the right talent. BB's system relies on a QB that is extremely accurate, highly intelligent in making their reads, and calm in the pocket. Not many QB's in the league have all three facets in their game. Brady has the best pocket awareness of any QB in the league right now, bar none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 BTW, I don't think it is right to put Brady in the top three, ten or whatever, nor should you discount him now. I think you should evaluate careers when they are over. He has the opportunity to win championships like no other QB before him because of his age and accomplishments thus far, but let's see how it plays out first (starting with the game 13 days from now). 217095[/snapback] Yeah, you can't make a firm judgment without a little bit of distance. It is interesting to ask though, if Brady were to retire after the Super Bowl, assuming the Pats win, how would he be ranked in NFL history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Belichick's career record as a HC broken in two: Before Brady: 42-58 (inc. 1-1 playoffs) After Brady: 56-14 (inc. 8-0 playoffs) If "the system" is responsible for Brady's success, then why the above numbers? Why didn't Kosar, Vinnie and Drew garner victories at an 80% clip? BTW, I don't think it is right to put Brady in the top three, ten or whatever, nor should you discount him now. I think you should evaluate careers when they are over. He has the opportunity to win championships like no other QB before him because of his age and accomplishments thus far, but let's see how it plays out first (starting with the game 13 days from now). 217095[/snapback] I'd say it's more because "success breeds success" than Tom Brady. I'm not discounting Brady's accomplishments at all but the Pats win and lose as a team, getting contributions from virtually every facet of their team each week. Yesterday's first 2 drives were a perfect example. A tipped pick, an end around on the first offensive play that changed the game, and the longest FG in the history of the stadium. Fug, I hate the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I disagree. Only Manning is a better QB than Brady right now. Culpepper and McNair have been overrated their whole careers. Vick looks pretty, but he doesn't lead his team. Farve is done....he's not even top ten in the leauge any more. 216964[/snapback] I disagree. Brady is better than Manning. Manning put up some great stats, but it takes more than stats to win, as proven by his playoff performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alg Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Belichick's career record as a HC broken in two: Before Brady: 42-58 (inc. 1-1 playoffs) After Brady: 56-14 (inc. 8-0 playoffs) If "the system" is responsible for Brady's success, then why the above numbers? Why didn't Kosar, Vinnie and Drew garner victories at an 80% clip? BTW, I don't think it is right to put Brady in the top three, ten or whatever, nor should you discount him now. I think you should evaluate careers when they are over. He has the opportunity to win championships like no other QB before him because of his age and accomplishments thus far, but let's see how it plays out first (starting with the game 13 days from now). 217095[/snapback] I am in agreement with you in that his career should be viewed in hindsight. As to the before and after stats, you should also consider that coaches grow as well. As to Kosar, he was at the end of his career, and who knows if the OL was as well coached then as now. I used to hear every year how they needed to improve their line, but Brady stands unscathed the majority of time. My disagreement is not with people who say Brady is a "great" (or good) QB, it is with those who wish to annoint him and lay palm leaves down for him as he walks by... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I disagree. Brady is better than Manning. Manning put up some great stats, but it takes more than stats to win, as proven by his playoff performances. 217109[/snapback] Hard to argue with 2 rings and a shot at a third vs. zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Hooks Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I am in agreement with you in that his career should be viewed in hindsight. As to the before and after stats, you should also consider that coaches grow as well. As to Kosar, he was at the end of his career, and who knows if the OL was as well coached then as now. I used to here every year how they needed to improve their line, but Brady stands unscathed the majority of time. My disagreement is not with people who say Brady is a "great" (or good) QB, it is with those who wish to annoint him and lay palm leaves down for him as he walks by... 217115[/snapback] I think it lies somewhere in between. I am not ready to anoint him anything other than to say up to this point, he has been great and clutch. He is only 27 years old and by all rights just entering his prime. This does not mean he is a first ballot hall of famer. I would take him over any QB in the league right now because of the total package, but that's just me. The bottom line is the QB position is not about stats, it is about making the right decision as often as possible, and Brady has mastered this. I think he is the only truly indispensable player on New England's roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I think he is the only truly indispensable player on New England's roster. 217124[/snapback] You're probably right but all of NE took a collective deep breath when Harrison went down yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I disagree. Brady is better than Manning. Manning put up some great stats, but it takes more than stats to win, as proven by his playoff performances. 217109[/snapback] I think the mismatch is on the sidelines and defenses when the Colts and Pats play. Dungy is badly overrated, he couldn't get Tampa over the hump and now he's stuck in the same place with the Colts. And, as we've learned on the board today, BB = Vince Lombardi. But you gotta give Brady his due, he has earned his accolades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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