TakeYouToTasker Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I would say that there is a causation between mental problems and suicide. You would be wrong. First of all, you haven't defined mental problems; and that's not even the argument you were making. You made an argument that mental problems were the singular cause of suicide; which is patently false. Can there be exceptions? I suppose so. You suppose that there can be exceptions? You haven't even demonstrated causation yet. Start there, then build your hypothesis; not the other way around. I would also say that there is a correlation between transgenders and mental problems. ... Data???? While transgenderism didn't cause the suicide the mental problems that caused the transgenderism was the causation of the suicide. ... So... ... So now you've expanded on your gut feelings... with no data to back them... and have catagorized transgenderism as a disease? On what authority? I have shown that 40% of transgenders have attempted suicide. No you haven't. You source is in no way affirmative. An even higher percentage have mental problems. Again, data??? You've yet to demonstrate that suicide's primary root cause is "mental problems", further, you've yet to define what "metal problems" are. At this point any reasonable reader can only believe you to have come up with a solution, and then invented a problem to suit it. Your whole approach to this has been backwards. I don't think we should expect the average serviceman to go into combat with someone who has a good chance of having mental problems. Again, show causation, define mental problems, and quit assigning group identities to individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Where do you house Private Klinger who still has his dick but identifies as a woman? There have been many more sexual assault complaints over the last few years. Assaults against males are more common place than against females. Somehow I doubt that. Private Klinger will sleep wherever his commanding officer tells him to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_suicide.php "The great majority of people who experience a mental illness do not die by suicide. However, of those who die from suicide, more than 90 percent have a diagnosable mental disorder." Somehow I doubt that. Private Klinger will sleep wherever his commanding officer tells him to sleep. The OP has a link to an article that you might want to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I take it you didn't follow through on the findings to see what's behind the number? Aarin Belkin, who heads The Palm Center, which studies gays and lesbians in the military, said “very few” male-on-male perpetrators are gay, saying such incidents are “somewhat similar to prison rape.” “It is important to try as hard as possible to eliminate sexual assaults from the military, but I don’t think that procedural reforms will do much to lower the incidence rate unless military culture changes dramatically,” said Mr. Belkin, whose 2012 book “Bring Me Men,” included a case study on male-on-male rape in the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I take it you didn't follow through on the findings to see what's behind the number? And, as I stated up-thread, this isn't a new problem. The difference is that victims are now willing to come forward without fear of being discharged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 And, as I stated up-thread, this isn't a new problem. The difference is that victims are now willing to come forward without fear of being discharged. And how would the victim of a homosexual rape be discharged? For wearing seductive clothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 But are the mental problems caused by being LGTB or the other way around? THAT is open for debate. By current thinking, the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 And how would the victim of a homosexual rape be discharged? For wearing seductive clothing? ... So you believe that homosexuals joined the Army, en masse, and began a rape crusade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 ... So you believe that homosexuals joined the Army, en masse, and began a rape crusade? How is that a answer to my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) How is that a answer to my question? Your question was used as a medium to reassertion your premise. I've skipped a step to save us time. See my above posts about the reason for the increase in reported sex assaults. The only refutation of what I've posited, is what I've asked you in my last post. Edited March 22, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Your question was used as a medium to reassertion your premise. I've skipped a step to save us time. See my above posts about the reason for the increase in reported sex assaults. The only refutation of what I've posited, is what I've asked you in my last post. so we all must accept increased reporting as the cause of the higher rape numbers as fact? No real increase, just more reporting? Says who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 so we all must accept increased reporting as the cause of the higher rape numbers as fact? No real increase, just more reporting? Says who? Again: So you believe that homosexuals joined the Army, en masse, and began a rape crusade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Again: So you believe that homosexuals joined the Army, en masse, and began a rape crusade? Ah liberal exaggerations. En masse. rape crusade. Perfect. Do you really find it hard to believe that homosexual rape went up when the number of homosexuals increased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Ah liberal exaggerations. En masse. rape crusade. Perfect. Do you really find it hard to believe that homosexual rape went up when the number of homosexuals increased? ... You haven't read anything posted here... Read, you !@#$ing retard. Given the massive increase in reporting of male on male rape, one of two senarios is possible. 1) huge masses of homosexuals joined the military and immediately set themselves to rape. 2) the rape problem already existed, and a change in the law made reporting those rapes easier on the victims Choose. Edited March 22, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 " you !@#$ing retard." OK Gregg you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 " you !@#$ing retard." OK Gregg you win. In this thread, I'll take that as an easy compliment. Choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) In this thread, I'll take that as an easy compliment. Choose. Well there you go. Romney put his dog on the car. Case closed. You know you are not as brilliant or insightful as you think. You go the personal insult angle and present your opinion as facts. Edited March 22, 2014 by Jim in Anchorage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Well there you go. Romney put his dog on the car. C I've presented you with a choice. Choose or volunteer an additional possibility. I'm waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I've presented you with a choice. Choose or volunteer an additional possibility. I'm waiting. I think I did that. You choose not to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I think I did that. You choose not to answer. No, liar. You haven't. Try now: Given the massive increase in reporting of male on male rape, one of two senarios is possible. 1) huge masses of homosexuals joined the military and immediately set themselves to rape. 2) the rape problem already existed, and a change in the law made reporting those rapes easier on the victims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 No, liar. You haven't. Try now: Given the massive increase in reporting of male on male rape, one of two senarios is possible. 1) huge masses of homosexuals joined the military and immediately set themselves to rape. 2) the rape problem already existed, and a change in the law made reporting those rapes easier on the victims What law? Victims reporting forcible rape? You need to fill me in on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 No, liar. You haven't. Try now: Given the massive increase in reporting of male on male rape, one of two senarios is possible. 1) huge masses of homosexuals joined the military and immediately set themselves to rape. 2) the rape problem already existed, and a change in the law made reporting those rapes easier on the victims Either way, doesn't that point to allowing gays in the military as a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What law? Victims reporting forcible rape? You need to fill me in on that one. please forgive my bringing a little levity into the discussion, but if intentional, that pun was well timed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Either way, doesn't that point to allowing gays in the military as a problem? I fail to see how increased willingness to report rape is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 No, liar. You haven't. Try now: Given the massive increase in reporting of male on male rape, one of two senarios is possible. 1) huge masses of homosexuals joined the military and immediately set themselves to rape. 2) the rape problem already existed, and a change in the law made reporting those rapes easier on the victims Who in their right mind would choose an answer in this false dichotomy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 I fail to see how increased willingness to report rape is a problem. Is rape a problem? Who is wrong here, the rapist or the rapee? Would the rapee have been disciplined for being raped prior to the new rules allowing openly gay personnel? Why would the new rules encourage such an increase in assault reports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Who in their right mind would choose an answer in this false dichotomy? Why? What else would explain the rise in the assault cases? Plus, the data that the OP was misusing was from an extrapolated survey,not from reported numbers. The reported assaults are still overwhelmingly male on female. The surveyed assaults show more male on male assaults, but the underlying cause of most of those is not a gay on straight assault. That's why I go berserk when people don't go to the data sources. So, the question is valid, what is behind the rise in surveyed assaults? If the proportion of gays in military is very small now, why is there a higher incidence of surveyed male on male assaults? Is there a rogue gay brigade that goes out raping & pillaging in the barracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Why? What else would explain the rise in the assault cases? Plus, the data that the OP was misusing was from an extrapolated survey,not from reported numbers. The reported assaults are still overwhelmingly male on female. The surveyed assaults show more male on male assaults, but the underlying cause of most of those is not a gay on straight assault. That's why I go berserk when people don't go to the data sources. So, the question is valid, what is behind the rise in surveyed assaults? If the proportion of gays in military is very small now, why is there a higher incidence of surveyed male on male assaults? Is there a rogue gay brigade that goes out raping & pillaging in the barracks? So what you are saying is that just because a man sticks his dick up another man's butthole doesn't make him gay? Or are you speculating that it might be gay on gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Is rape a problem? Who is wrong here, the rapist or the rapee? Would the rapee have been disciplined for being raped prior to the new rules allowing openly gay personnel? Why would the new rules encourage such an increase in assault reports? The accuser has to first admit that they have been involved in a homosexual sex act, then has to prove that it wasn't consensual, which is a very difficult thing to do. If, as in most cases, it cannot be proven, all that is left is the admission of participation in a homosexual sex act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Why? What else would explain the rise in the assault cases? Plus, the data that the OP was misusing was from an extrapolated survey,not from reported numbers. The reported assaults are still overwhelmingly male on female. The surveyed assaults show more male on male assaults, but the underlying cause of most of those is not a gay on straight assault. That's why I go berserk when people don't go to the data sources. So, the question is valid, what is behind the rise in surveyed assaults? If the proportion of gays in military is very small now, why is there a higher incidence of surveyed male on male assaults? Is there a rogue gay brigade that goes out raping & pillaging in the barracks? Why can't it be both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Why can't it be both? You find it likely that huge masses of homosexuals joined the military and immediately set themselves to rape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Why can't it be both? It is very likely both. But given the very small percent of gays in the military, you have to assume that the preponderance of male on male assaults are not gay on straight. You know, Johnnie, ever been to a Turkish prison? So what you are saying is that just because a man sticks his dick up another man's butthole doesn't make him gay? Or are you speculating that it might be gay on gay? The numbers don't bear out gay on straight assaults. Do the math, Sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 It is very likely both. But given the very small percent of gays in the military, you have to assume that the preponderance of male on male assaults are not gay on straight. You know, Johnnie, ever been to a Turkish prison? The numbers don't bear out gay on straight assaults. Do the math, Sue. So, if it's not gay on straight assaults it's either gay on gay assaults or straight on gay assaults? I guess it could be straight on straight assaults though. Where do we draw the line on calling something a homosexual act? Is it sticking your dick up someone's ass or sticking your dick up someone's ass? I don't get how you can portray the conditions in the military with a Turkish prison. Could you show me the math on that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It is very likely both. But given the very small percent of gays in the military, you have to assume that the preponderance of male on male assaults are not gay on straight. You know, Johnnie, ever been to a Turkish prison? The numbers don't bear out gay on straight assaults. Do the math, Sue. I'm pretty sure if you participate in homosexual acts, you're gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'm pretty sure if you participate in homosexual acts, you're gay. Our newest Seal Team member: "Say fella, I just want you to know that I'm perfectly straight, but would you mind bending over so I can show you how else I'm straight? I'm so straight that I can feel comfortable in my skin pushing in your stool. Thanks. That was fun. Tiddle dee!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'm pretty sure if you participate in homosexual acts, you're gay. And there's the disconnect right there. Our newest Seal Team member: "Say fella, I just want you to know that I'm perfectly straight, but would you mind bending over so I can show you how else I'm straight? I'm so straight that I can feel comfortable in my skin pushing in your stool. Thanks. That was fun. Tiddle dee!" And there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 And there's the disconnect right there. And there. Basically. I guess it's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 You find it likely that huge masses of homosexuals joined the military and immediately set themselves to rape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) And there's the disconnect right there. And there. Is that wrong? I mean, you can try to explain it away. I'll listen. Edited March 22, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Is that wrong? I mean, you can try to explain it away. I'll listen. Rape is rarely (if ever) about sexuality. It's about power. Gay, straight, anywhere in between is not a motivating factor in the overwhelming majority of sexual assaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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