Alphadawg7 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I have to respectfully disagree on CJ we have seen exactly what he is. We need a power back that can be a 20+ carry per game guy, but again my opinion. I still say Spiller is nothing but Percy Harvin and would thrive for us in that role. But as for as the rest, TE, OT, WR, RB, its all good and I agree Offense should be the priority in this draft initially, then fill in with D. No offense, I don't get the "he can't stay healthy" myths about Spiller. People need to understand his injury. He got a HIGH ankle sprain, one that most RBs would sit out several weeks at least because of the pain, especially guys who depend on speed and elusiveness, it's kryptonite for RBs. But Spiller did something remarkable and played through it, and it wasn't until Marrone made him sit for a game did Spiller even miss a game. Our record wasn't good, it was not a contract year...he did it SOLELY for the team and people crap all over him for that and now complain he can't stay healthy. He was only hurt most the year because he played through it instead of letting it heal because the team was decimated with injuries and needed help. And for the record, Freddy has been hurt waaaay more than Spiller and missed more games. Spiller had no problem carrying the load when Freddy missed half of the season before and Spiller DOMINATED over that period and averaged 6ypc. But one high ankle sprain (that lingered because he played through it for the team) and now he's suddenly injury prone and can't make it as a full time back, lol. I just don't get the people on this board and how they come up with some of the theory's they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 So you'd be fine with drafting Watkins if he falls to us? I have to say Mark I would be really hard pressed to trade down at that point. Now I grant you if someone really wanted him and ponied up more than one pick, you gotta listen to the offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 No offense, I don't get the "he can't stay healthy" myths about Spiller. People need to understand his injury. He got a HIGH ankle sprain, one that most RBs would sit out several weeks at least because of the pain, especially guys who depend on speed and elusiveness, it's kryptonite for RBs. But Spiller did something remarkable and played through it, and it wasn't until Marrone made him sit for a game did Spiller even miss a game. Our record wasn't good, it was not a contract year...he did it SOLELY for the team and people crap all over him for that and now complain he can't stay healthy. He was only hurt most the year because he played through it instead of letting it heal because the team was decimated with injuries and needed help. And for the record, Freddy has been hurt waaaay more than Spiller and missed more games. Spiller had no problem carrying the load when Freddy missed half of the season before and Spiller DOMINATED over that period and averaged 6ypc. But one high ankle sprain (that lingered because he played through it for the team) and now he's suddenly injury prone and can't make it as a full time back, lol. I just don't get the people on this board and how they come up with some of the theory's they have. He has a lengthy history of limping off the field and calling for a breather after only a snap or two. I don't think the fact that he hasn't blown an ACL yet takes away from the fact that he isn't an everydown back. He's very quick and fast but he has a number of negatives and not being capable of carrying a heavy workload is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 No offense, I don't get the "he can't stay healthy" myths about Spiller. People need to understand his injury. He got a HIGH ankle sprain, one that most RBs would sit out several weeks at least because of the pain, especially guys who depend on speed and elusiveness, it's kryptonite for RBs. But Spiller did something remarkable and played through it, and it wasn't until Marrone made him sit for a game did Spiller even miss a game. Our record wasn't good, it was not a contract year...he did it SOLELY for the team and people crap all over him for that and now complain he can't stay healthy. He was only hurt most the year because he played through it instead of letting it heal because the team was decimated with injuries and needed help. And for the record, Freddy has been hurt waaaay more than Spiller and missed more games. Spiller had no problem carrying the load when Freddy missed half of the season before and Spiller DOMINATED over that period and averaged 6ypc. But one high ankle sprain (that lingered because he played through it for the team) and now he's suddenly injury prone and can't make it as a full time back, lol. I just don't get the people on this board and how they come up with some of the theory's they have. I don't get where you say people crap on him, I just say he is what he is and don't drink the Koolaid and make him into more than he is. He is a specialist back, a guy you put into space NOT a 20+ carry per game guy. As for injuries etc, his history is right there as fact, and as Bado says he pulls himself every few plays. No one is 'crapping' on the guy, but this is business and we need to get into the business of see what players are or aren't and getting the players in the right positions to get to the playoffs and win a superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmoove Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Trade down. Every year trade down. You still need to answer the question regardless. Who do you draft if there is no trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 So you'd be fine with drafting Watkins if he falls to us? I just don't see how you could pass up that talent if he's sitting there at #9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) I don't get where you say people crap on him, I just say he is what he is and don't drink the Koolaid and make him into more than he is. He is a specialist back, a guy you put into space NOT a 20+ carry per game guy. As for injuries etc, his history is right there as fact, and as Bado says he pulls himself every few plays. No one is 'crapping' on the guy, but this is business and we need to get into the business of see what players are or aren't and getting the players in the right positions to get to the playoffs and win a superbowl. Well then you don't read threads on this board. There have been whole threads dedicated to crapping on him. Threads mocking him for setting a goal for 2000 yards coming off a season where he avg 6ypc. Etc etc. And plenty of threads not about him where people bring him up and start crapping on him. And the recalls of him limping off the field were this year and because he played through a HIGH ankle sprain. That hasn't been his whole career. But people here like to portray that over his whole career which is a myth. Yet somehow Freddy gets a pass from the same people despite missing tons of games and being injury prone for a while now. Only RB who can't handle a full time load on this team is Freddy. And I love Freddy, but that's just the facts. Edited March 17, 2014 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well then you don't read threads on this board. There have been whole threads dedicated to crapping on him. Threads mocking him for setting a goal for 2000 yards coming off a season where he avg 6ypc. Etc etc. And plenty of threads not about him where people bring him up and start crapping on him. And the recalls of him limping off the field were this year and because he played through a HIGH ankle sprain. That hasn't been his whole career. But people here like to portray that over his whole career which is a myth. Yet somehow Freddy gets a pass from the same people despite missing tons of games and being injury prone for a while now. Only RB who can't handle a full time load on this team is Freddy. And I love Freddy, but that's just the facts. As is the fact CJ can't either. Facts are we need an every down back and it isn't on this roster unless Dixon can fill the role. Trade down. Every year trade down. You still need to answer the question regardless. Who do you draft if there is no trade? I lean TE, then WR then LT. And I say that because its believed by pretty much all experts you can get a starting RIGHT tackle (which is what we need) in the 3rd. But it depends on what TE and what WR are there between the two. I am not thrilled the top TE has hired 'Cash money' or whoever the hell that group is to manage him. I can see in 5 years the guy splitting for the Cash money instead of giving us any discount at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) I think WR...You have to give EJ a big target. We're set at LT, do you really draft a RT at #9? NO! I'm all for the big play maker! Ebron or Evans! If Mack or Clowney drops...Sure! And in free agency...Make a move for Strief...Give New Orleans a little payback! Edited March 17, 2014 by swede316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) As is the fact CJ can't either. Facts are we need an every down back and it isn't on this roster unless Dixon can fill the role. Why can't Spiller? Because he had a high ankle sprain which can happen to any RB? Because he played through it instead of sitting so it lingered last year? Just curious...Where were you when he was dominating as a full time RB when Fred was knocked out for the season? My point is, there is NO proof he isn't an every down back. One high ankle sprain and suddenly he can't take the pounding even though he was fine the year before and dominated. This past year he played most the season with a bad injury for a RB on half a leg, he had a terrible run blocking OL, a decimated offense, 5 QBs, a 2nd RB splitting carries, and most importantly a OC who had no clue how to use him...yet he still damn near hit 1000 yards. Getting rid of him is ridiculous. This guy have his all on a bad let for a team not contending and it wasn't a contract year. We need MORE guys like him, not less. Not to mention he can take it to the house on 1 and a half legs better than most RBs can in two. Edited March 17, 2014 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGUNBILLS Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I am all for the big run game. The reason being is that I just can't see EJ being an elite QB. I am in hopes that he can prove me wrong, but based on what I saw from him last year, I feel he is mediocre at best. I understand that he was a rookie, but not even once did he complete a pass that just made me say wow, that was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) I am all for the big run game. The reason being is that I just can't see EJ being an elite QB. I am in hopes that he can prove me wrong, but based on what I saw from him last year, I feel he is mediocre at best. I understand that he was a rookie, but not even once did he complete a pass that just made me say wow, that was awesome. You didn't watch many games then cuz I saw several and I know a lot of other people saw them as they talked about them. Jury is still out on EJ, but he did make quite a few impressive throws last year...and some bad ones too. Again, not saying he's gonna be this or that, but kid impressed me several times. Edited March 17, 2014 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 There is proof, he gets injured, he gets tired, he pulls himself out of games. We need a guy to carry the rock about 270-315x per season and he isn't it. He has proven he isn't the guy. Now I get you love CJ, but the reality is he isn't that guy. You are basing your entire argument on off every once in a while he can inflate his stats with long runs when the proof is there he has major issues reading defenses and blocks. BEFORE hurt the guy wasn't as effective and looked lost to be honest. You are also basing your entire argument off ONE season, one in which sure he had a 6.0 average, BUT didn't have more than 207 carries. Whereas his first full season where he was in 16 games he had 107. This year he had 300 less yards on just 5 less carries than his top year. Bottom line he is a percy harvin type player that has his role on a team, split him out and get him in space, let him return kicks and watch this guy go off I am all for the big run game. The reason being is that I just can't see EJ being an elite QB. I am in hopes that he can prove me wrong, but based on what I saw from him last year, I feel he is mediocre at best. I understand that he was a rookie, but not even once did he complete a pass that just made me say wow, that was awesome. In all fairness I am one of the harshest on EJ but I have to disagree my friend he had some really solid throws. Was he inconsistent.... yeah. But lets get a good running game going, lets not play from behind as much, upgrade TE, WR and RT now that we have worked on LG and lets see how he does. If after an entire offseason of practice, and a full season in 2014 lets see where he is at that point. I will say another injury or so to his knees then that shows there is a major issue there and we might want to go ahead and draft a QB next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I have to say Mark I would be really hard pressed to trade down at that point. Now I grant you if someone really wanted him and ponied up more than one pick, you gotta listen to the offer I agree with you. Watkins is a player I would take in a heartbeat, however if there was a team that made an offer we couldn't refuse, then I would consider making a trade. Oh it's going to take forever for May to get here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Well then you don't read threads on this board. There have been whole threads dedicated to crapping on him. Threads mocking him for setting a goal for 2000 yards coming off a season where he avg 6ypc. Etc etc. And plenty of threads not about him where people bring him up and start crapping on him. And the recalls of him limping off the field were this year and because he played through a HIGH ankle sprain. That hasn't been his whole career. But people here like to portray that over his whole career which is a myth. Yet somehow Freddy gets a pass from the same people despite missing tons of games and being injury prone for a while now. Only RB who can't handle a full time load on this team is Freddy. And I love Freddy, but that's just the facts. Was I wrong for mocking the people who were predicting a 2,000 yard season? He didn't even get HALF of that. You guys need to face the fact that just because a player can make a great play doesn't mean he is a great player. In that August thread I talked about his lack of durability/stamina so the issue precludes his ankle sprain. After 7 years of watching CJ not be able to get more than the 1200 yard area in any season I think it's safe to say he isn't going to be carrying the rock 330-400 times in any individual season and subsequently NOT getting 2,000 yards rushing. Being able to physically take the punishment is far from his biggest issue. The guy is simply not smart enough to maximize his numbers. He is a mental liability on the field in both the run and pass game and that is very limiting to his touches. Edited March 17, 2014 by BADOLBEELZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckywarriors Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 TRADE STEVE JOHNSON HE IS A LOSER AND DO NOT WANT HIM RUBBING OFF ON THE YOUNG GUYS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) There is proof, he gets injured, he gets tired, he pulls himself out of games. We need a guy to carry the rock about 270-315x per season and he isn't it. He has proven he isn't the guy. Now I get you love CJ, but the reality is he isn't that guy. You are basing your entire argument on off every once in a while he can inflate his stats with long runs when the proof is there he has major issues reading defenses and blocks. BEFORE hurt the guy wasn't as effective and looked lost to be honest. You are also basing your entire argument off ONE season, one in which sure he had a 6.0 average, BUT didn't have more than 207 carries. Whereas his first full season where he was in 16 games he had 107. This year he had 300 less yards on just 5 less carries than his top year. Bottom line he is a percy harvin type player that has his role on a team, split him out and get him in space, let him return kicks and watch this guy go off In all fairness I am one of the harshest on EJ but I have to disagree my friend he had some really solid throws. Was he inconsistent.... yeah. But lets get a good running game going, lets not play from behind as much, upgrade TE, WR and RT now that we have worked on LG and lets see how he does. If after an entire offseason of practice, and a full season in 2014 lets see where he is at that point. I will say another injury or so to his knees then that shows there is a major issue there and we might want to go ahead and draft a QB next year. You are basing your opinion on one year, not me. And last year he had all the issues I listed above and you just ignored them while criticizing last year. 1. Hackett was a complete idiot in how he was trying to use CJ early in the year. 2. CJ got a high ankle sprain early in the season by the way. 3. CJ played through it all season after that except the one game (which isn't long enough to recover) where Marrone finally made him sit. And truthfully, this is where Marrone needs to be a better HC and force his best offensive weapon to sit earlier when it was clear playing on it was not going to let it heal. 4. We had scrubs at QB half the year while EJ was out. 5. Our OG position was a joke. 6. Our OL was ravaged from losses in FA and injuries. 7. ALL of our top 4 WRs missed significant time. 8. We had a rookie QB in and out of the lineup to go with our rookie coaching staff too. I mean come on bro, he still ran for 933 yards for 4.6 ypc and had 33 catches in less than 15 games while SPLITTING carries on top of all that above. Probably more like 13 games when you factor the times trying to play through it made it worse and had to come out of games. I mean what's a guy gotta do? I can't think of many RBs that could have accomplished that in the NFL even if they were fully healthy all year, let alone slowed by a high ankle sprain (which is a horrendous injury to a RB). Edited March 17, 2014 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I agree with the OP to an extent. The team needs a big back. Like Marshawn Lynch. A Beast (Ironic that he was once a Bill). Somebody who can pound and move the pile, block, catch the ball, out run most linebackers, etc. CJ is quick and versatile and a great weapon to have, but I don't think CJ is that move the pile kind of guy. Fred could do it five years ago, but now he's getting old and every time he gets gang tackled I cringe and I'm afraid to look. I don't know if that guy is drafted or a UDFA, but I think there is a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 And for the record, I like having 2 backs, and I like having an explosive and a power guy. So sure, let's draft one as Freddy is close to done. I'm just saying its crazy to get rid of our best offensive player in CJ at this point. He's a stud who unfortunately played on a an injury filled team struggling to find a scheme while suffering through a high ankle sprain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Alphadog, again.... drop the one season high ankle sprain stuff. He pulls himself out of games, he is hurt in other games and the reality is CJ spiller is not, never has been and never will be an every down back. I like the guy too, but it is what it is. But I can see you are going to Champion him to be what he isn't until the cows come home so there is no more reason to discuss it. This team needs to draft a bigger, every down back and hopefully its in this draft and we can start trying to make the switch to a more traditional offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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