Buftex Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Like I said in aother thread, this board gets dumber with the passing of each losing season.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Good grief... JJ Watt is a hybrid defense tackle who gets moved around the line, exactly like... wait for it... Kyle Williams. As for what the job of interior linemen is, that depends, like everything else in football, on the scheme. Kyle Williams' coaches, after evaluating Kyle, have decided not to use him to soak up blockers. This is a concious decision his coaches have expressed in many interviews. The reason for this being that the ability to consistantly dominate a man 1-1 in a gap is so rare, that when you find a player who can to exactly that, you create schemes which free him up to do so. You don't waste the talents of a Kyle Williams, and turn him into Tony Siragusa, who's only "skill" was being fat and strong. As for the things I have listed having no impact? Really? Pressuring the quarterback has no impact? Being among the best in the league at stoping running plays in your gap assignment has no impact? His Career Weighted Approximate Value ranks him 41st amongst all players in the NFL over the course of his career. So here's what it boils down to: I have the advanced metrics you were clamoring for earlier in the thread. When examinded they decimate your argument. Your argument is based on feelings rather than numbers. Those metrics are god awful then. How can say he is an impact player when he has 3 forced fumbles in 8 years of playing? JJ Watt had 4 forced fumbles just last year and 4 the year before. How do those 2 even compare? THey don't, and no, Watt does not play DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Kyle Williams is one of the 20 best defensive players in all of football, and has been for the better part of this decade. Deal with it, troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Interestingly (not really), Kyle Williams is the only one of our "overrated" Pro Bowlers taken on the first day of the Pro-Bowl draft...team Rice: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000316381/article/2014-pro-bowl-draft-gets-underway-in-hawaii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Those metrics are god awful then. How can say he is an impact player when he has 3 forced fumbles in 8 years of playing? JJ Watt had 4 forced fumbles just last year and 4 the year before. How do those 2 even compare? THey don't, and no, Watt does not play DT. I see that your argument has changed. Now it all hinges on Williams only having three forced fumbles over the course of eight seasons; as if the forced fumble stat is what makes defensive tackles great. For reference: Vince Wilfork has 5 FF in 10 seasons Ted Washington had 8 FF in 17 seasons Ndamukong Suh has 2 FF in 4 seasons Tommie Harris had 6 FF in 8 seasons Richard Seymour had 4 FF in 12 seasons Gerald McCoy has 3 FF in 4 seasons Jason Hatcher has 4 FF in 8 seasons Marcell Dareus has 1 FF in 3 seasons Haloti Ngata has 4 FF in 8 seasons And yes, Watt does play Defensive Tackle, though it's not his primary position. Like Williams, Watt gets moved along the line, and is asked to play both DE as well as DT throughout the course of the game, in order to create 1-1 matchups, which both Watt and Williams dominate. Edited January 22, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Analyst Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 49-79 is the Bills record in 8 years Kyle Williams has been here. That is 6 wins a year. He is not a valuable player at all. The Bills average being 28th against the rush during that time. The Bills are 40-60 (40%) when he plays and 9-19 (32.1%) when he doesn't play. So if we are going to assign the whole teams W/L to him, then they are a better team when he is in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I see that your argument has changed. Now it all hinges on Williams only having three forced fumbles over the course of eight seasons; as if the forced fumble stat is what makes defensive tackles great. For reference: Vince Wilfork has 5 FF in 10 seasons Ted Washington had 8 FF in 17 seasons Ndamukong Suh has 2 FF in 4 seasons Tommie Harris had 6 FF in 8 seasons Richard Seymour had 4 FF in 12 seasons Gerald McCoy has 3 FF in 4 seasons Jason Hatcher has 4 FF in 8 seasons Marcell Dareus has 1 FF in 3 seasons Haloti Ngata has 4 FF in 8 seasons And yes, Watt does play Defensive Tackle, though it's not his primary position. Like Williams, Watt gets moved along the line, and is asked to play both DE as well as DT throughout the couse of the game, in order to create 1-1 matchups, which both Watt and Williams dominate. I knew you would go there. The Bills run defense still stinks, right? Does it not? Has it for 8 straight seasons? The answer is yes, and there is one constant smallish DT throughout the whole time. The Bills are 40-60 (40%) when he plays and 9-19 (32.1%) when he doesn't play. So if we are going to assign the whole teams W/L to him, then they are a better team when he is in the game. That is hilarious. You just created an informal WAR stat. It is 1. Kyle Williams is worth 1 game a year. OVERRATED!!! Hahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I knew you would go there. The Bills run defense still stinks, right? Does it not? Has it for 8 straight seasons? The answer is yes, and there is one constant smallish DT throughout the whole time. I see... You knew I would go with focused data. Conversely you've gone with generalized statements about a team game, ignoring individual success metrics, and focused instead on your feelings. Yet, you don't account for Williams ranking second in the league for all defensive linemen (this accounts for 4-3 DEs, 3-4 DEs, NTs, and DTs, as well as 3-4 rush LB) in defending the run within his gap assignment. Which, ironically, is the thing you are saying he's bad at, while analysis says he's the second best in the entire league. I have enjoyed watching you change your argument as I shoot each shift of your goal posts down, however, so by all means, keep it up. That is hilarious. You just created an informal WAR stat. It is 1. Kyle Williams is worth 1 game a year. OVERRATED!!! Hahahahaha I see... So, examining a "WAR" of 1 over a 16 game season; if we extrapolated that out over a 162 game season, such as the one baseball uses in order to make an apples-to-apples comparison (lets just call it 160, to make the math easily visible), Williams would have a WAR of 10. Do you know how many baseball players had a WAR of 10 or higher in 2013? Zero. Do you know how many times a baseball player has ever recorded a single season WAR of 10 or higher in the entire history of the game? 55. Ever. In the history of baseball. So, once again, you've made my argument for me. Kyle Williams, according to your own argument, has a career average WAR of 10, while only 55 times has an individual ever produced at that absurdly high level for a single season in baseball. Edited January 22, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Haha, Football is only 16 games. Why are you manufacturing a lie? You can't use football WAR in baseball WAR terms!! You suck at logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Haha, Football is only 16 games. Why are you manufacturing a lie? You can't use football WAR in baseball WAR terms!! You suck at logic. ... 1:16 = 10:160, or "the value of a single game in football is roughly the same as 10 games in baseball". And I suck at logic? Keep em' coming, Einstein. Edited January 23, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 For all that you say,he still has NO impact at all on a game, He is an insignificant player for the Bills. He means nothing at all in reality on the field when it comes to stopping the run and winning. Longest tenured player, and a representative of a losing history. Might as well trade him or cut him, and I know he would not be a starter elsewhere. If you wanna argue a point you can do so w/o going to an absolute extreme. Because the second you do, all credibility is lost. ... 1:16 = 10:160, or "the value of a single game in football has roughly the same value as 10 games in baseball". And I suck at logic? Keep em' coming, Einstein. Man, you should stop wiping the floor w this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Stop sucking on that lemon & put your teeth back in. LOLZ Haha, Football is only 16 games. Why are you manufacturing a lie? You can't use football WAR in baseball WAR terms!! You suck at logic. you smell like poop . I haven't posted in quite some time but after reading about Dareus making the Pro Bowl as the 4th Bill to do so I can't help but to daydream about the good times that is about to come down the pike for all the long suffering Bills' fans! I just hope that we retain Byrd and have a strong draft/FA period so that we can add whatever players that are necessary to making this one of the best defenses in the NFL for the 2014 season! i forgot to mention , i like your post sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Man, you should stop wiping the floor w this guy. I can't take 100% of the credit. I mean, look what he's trying to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 i forgot to mention , i like your post sir Thanks. It's too bad though, I tried to post something and positive and man did this thread ever get ugly! It's too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Thanks. It's too bad though, I tried to post something and positive and man did this thread ever get ugly! It's too bad. Agreeing with the prior poster, I enjoyed your post as well. I believe the pieces are finally in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Thanks. It's too bad though, I tried to post something and positive and man did this thread ever get ugly! It's too bad. Dont worry about that.We in the know respect your thoughts. Even if they may be incorrect ... Just kiddin brother and TYTT . Your are a good strong soldier for us. I salute you . Buffalo Bills style of course . ; ) really what did happen to Spags ? Edited January 23, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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