Is EJ's mild injury a blessing in disguise?

[Reddy Freddy]

I think the pressure is off him for a couple of weeks. There should be no reason to rush EJ back into the line up now. If Lewis bombs, then the Bills would be out of playoff contention. If Lewis does well, then you can also ease EJ back on a slower schedule. I think over the long term, this mid-season break will work to EJ's favor.

 

What if Lewis is just ok but we somehow manage to stay in contention in the next few weeks?

[PolishDave]

 

the most important issue to resolve this year is QB.

 

so far, all EJ has shown is mediocrity with huge potential upside.

This ^^

 

In my opinion, the most important thing to get out of this experiment (cuz that is exactly what it is) is whether or not EJ is going to be a good enough Quarterback to lead this team for years to come.

 

What I am fearful of happening is that he will miss enough games where the coaches will say "well, we didn't get to see a full season from him" and use that as an excuse to experiment with him again next year.

 

I want EJ to excel and I want him to be my QB next year and going forward, but only if he proves he can do it this year. If his performance improves enough as the year plays out, then he is the guy. If his performance does not improve, I would be looking to bring in someone better IF there is someone available that would be better.

[l< j]

Help EJ? Maybe. Help the Bills decide if EJ is a potentially Elite/Franchise QB or if they should go back to the well in round 1 of a strong QB draft? No.

 

To me, EJ playing 8-10 games this year is the worst case scenario for the Bills organization going forward.

 

This post (all of it, including what I deleted) is exactly, 100% right. Nail on the head, can't be anymore spot on. (The only way this is NOT the worst case scenario is if Thad Lewis is a Tom Brady in waiting. Which appears unlikely.) We need to know, or have a pretty good idea, if EJ is the guy. Now we are likely going to be left guessing if he is.

 

kj

[CodeMonkey]

A knee injury will never, ever, be a blessing of any kind.

[PolishDave]

What if Lewis is just ok but we somehow manage to stay in contention in the next few weeks?

 

The coaches should be playing whichever quarterback they feel gives the Bills the best chance of winning the game that Sunday regardless of whose name is on the jersey. Who cares whose name is on the jersey? Play your best guy period. whoever that is. Anything else is stupid unless you are intentionally trying to lose. If it was a dead heat or too close to call then they are going to play EJ because they have so much money invested in him. If Lewis is clearly better though, then you play Lewis until you reach a point where you feel EJ is better than him.

[Homey D. Clown]

What the kid would benefit most from would be an offensive line that could hold the pocket for more than 32 milliseconds... they look like **** this year.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Help EJ? Maybe. Help the Bills decide if EJ is a potentially Elite/Franchise QB or if they should go back to the well in round 1 of a strong QB draft? No.

 

To me, EJ playing 8-10 games this year is the worst case scenario for the Bills organization going forward. If he had just blown out his knee in preseason it would have been a much easier decision to take a chance on another prospect than EJ giving you just a few good and bad performances in s shortened season.

 

I wanted to see Manuel play a full season and see if he progresses and how he reacts to teams gameplanning for him. Specifically divisional opponents in their second meeting.

 

The last part is critical, because game footage allows opponents to identify weaknesses in an opposing player and attack them accordingly. We have seen intially successful starts for Bills QB's get turned into nightmares repeatedly.....ever since Bill Belichick showed teams that if you keep Doug Flutie in the pocket he can't beat you...effectively dooming his late blooming NFL career. JP Losman, Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitzpatrick all had similarly encouraging beginnings turn to mush when opponents took away what they did well and forced them to play to their weaknesses that they had identified on film.

 

When EJ returns, there won't be much of a sample size for teams to game plan for......and thus even if he learned more from the sideline......which is highly debatable......the Bills organization(and us as fans) will not get a complete look at him to help make a decision going forward on their QB situation. Maybe EJ's long ball accuracy issues will sink him? Maybe he won't be able to read disguised defenses? Maybe he will be a guy who makes bad decisions late in games? We have seen these things sink previous Bills QB's and we had no idea they were issues until there was a good full season of film on those guys.

I understand your concerns, Badol, but if there is an elite QB where the Bills pick next season, they can either draft him anyway and have an embarrassment of riches at the position, or they're in a high-leverage situation to collect some valuable picks in trade. They can afford to be selective. I know it's very much a short-term league now but I think the Bills have never been looking at 2013 as the year in which they have to have all the answers on EJ. Is that a bad thing? Better question. But I sincerely believe it was not their hope that he would be the best option left standing, and that he would win it outright.

 

If Tajh Boyd or even Murray, maybe McCarron are there, and they like everything about them, I think you just bite the bullet and deal with it. You're gonna get a lot of talent one way or another.

[Boatdrinks]

Hold on there QB expert. When EJ's throws have been poor, his "footwork" has been scattershot due to immense pressure up the middle from our weak G spot. You "climb in the pocket" when the pressure is from the edges, not the middle. Go ahead and put Geno in the HOF if you want, but a close examination of his throws shows great protection on most of them. Also extremely wide open WR's on the vast majority. (he had a couple throws in tight spaces). EJ has not struggled when he's had a "clean pocket". The Jets have done a pretty good job of that. They've also used a creative scheme to get guys open and give Geno easy throws. Listen to Gruden and others' analysis. Good game by Geno and a nice step forward, but the fact is he flat out blew just one game earlier. Typical rookie stuff. The Jets staff has done a better job with Smith than our guys have with Manuel. That's what I see. You can throw around all the QB jargon you want, but Manuel has been praised by the talking heads when he's done good things too. Take a look at what has caused the poor "footwork" at times -usu. pass pro breakdowns, he hasn't had issues when the protection has been there. We can also do a lot more to get WR's open vs coverages than run on 1st, run on 2nd, throw in obvious passing situations. Jets staff has balls to run their offense. Our staff is timid and overly conservative. That has been the difference between Manuel/ Smith to this point.

[GG]

But that's the thing, EJ's performance hasn't been conclusive and if he had played out the whole season, I don't think that it would provide a definitive answer either for Bills to consider drafting another QB early. Like it or not, teams do not give up on first round QB picks within one season. So from that standpoint, I think sitting out a bit will be helpful in his development

[Ronin]

I know that it's the fans' nature to expect immediate results from players, but the main knock on EJ coming in was that he perhaps was not ready to be an NFL quarterback, and that sitting and learning for a year would be a good move for his development. To me, there's no doubt Bills had that in mind with whichever QB they were going to draft, and I firmly believe their plan was to have Kolb start the year.

 

You don't draft a player 16th overall to sit and learn. At that spot you expect them to play, either to prep for the next season in the case of QBs, or contribute right away, more often the case for D players.

 

I'm not sure that time is what Manuel needs, he needs reps. Can he shake the problems and issues that plagued him at FSU? Right now he has the same ones with little progress. If nothing else they need to ascertain whether or not he's the long-term solution.

 

A lot of fans' patience has run out, a while ago in many cases.

 

But that's the thing, EJ's performance hasn't been conclusive and if he had played out the whole season, I don't think that it would provide a definitive answer either for Bills to consider drafting another QB early. Like it or not, teams do not give up on first round QB picks within one season. So from that standpoint, I think sitting out a bit will be helpful in his development

 

You touched on a good point, this year's Draft is much more QB rich, perhaps one of the best ever. Will we participate? I doubt it, for the very reason that you cite.

 

That's why IMO it was stupid to draft a QB in round 1 last year. But hey, OBD is full of stupid moves.

 

Hold on there QB expert. When EJ's throws have been poor, his "footwork" has been scattershot due to immense pressure up the middle from our weak G spot. You "climb in the pocket" when the pressure is from the edges, not the middle. Go ahead and put Geno in the HOF if you want, but a close examination of his throws shows great protection on most of them. Also extremely wide open WR's on the vast majority. (he had a couple throws in tight spaces). EJ has not struggled when he's had a "clean pocket". The Jets have done a pretty good job of that. They've also used a creative scheme to get guys open and give Geno easy throws. Listen to Gruden and others' analysis. Good game by Geno and a nice step forward, but the fact is he flat out blew just one game earlier. Typical rookie stuff. The Jets staff has done a better job with Smith than our guys have with Manuel. That's what I see. You can throw around all the QB jargon you want, but Manuel has been praised by the talking heads when he's done good things too. Take a look at what has caused the poor "footwork" at times -usu. pass pro breakdowns, he hasn't had issues when the protection has been there. We can also do a lot more to get WR's open vs coverages than run on 1st, run on 2nd, throw in obvious passing situations. Jets staff has balls to run their offense. Our staff is timid and overly conservative. That has been the difference between Manuel/ Smith to this point.

 

Good stuff.

 

Here's a quote from a Draft review of him:

 

Manuel's long legs give me concern. He struggles to take the short, choppy steps that are required to move around in the pocket. He also has much better long speed than he does quickness, which hurts his ability to escape the rush and quickly scramble to pick up yards. Manuel's highlight tape contains some very impressive runs, and once he gets going he is very good at picking up yards in the open field. But his acceleration isn't great, and for being such a great athlete, his ability to avoid pressure was sorely lacking. How often does a quarterback run 40 yards in the NFL? It's a cool skill, but the greater skill, and one that Manuel doesn't seem to have, is the ability to consistently avoid pressure, avoid losing yards, and pick up first downs.

 

More -

 

Will Manuel run in the NFL? If so, how much? Will he do it only in the beginning? If he is close to his second contract, will he sell out for his team, or stop running and try to avoid injury? These are questions an NFL team must ask, because if he did it to Florida State, he could do it to your NFL team. And the running is so important because Manuel is really not much of an NFL prospect as a pure pocket passer.

The reasons for this are many. He really doesn't have a good feel for the game. Manuel is very slow to recognize and react on the field. He doesn't recognize blitzes well, doesn't sense pressure (making it too late to use his athleticism to avoid it), is often slow to get through his reads, and struggles to read coverage in general, both pre and post-snap.

 

More -

 

Manuel also struggles to throw with anticipation. The next time he bangs the post route before the receiver breaks open will be the first. He is very much a rudimentary "see it, throw it" player. That doesn't work well in the NFL. In the league, certain routes demand that the ball comes out before the receiver is open or out of his break.

Throwing with anticipation and the ability to quickly recognize and react to things happening on the field aren't physical tools, but rather are the power cords attached to the physical tools. Without them, the tools don't matter all that much.

 

We've seen all of that here and it has not improved as the season has gone one giving me cause for concern.

Edited October 9, 2013 by TaskersGhost

[GG]

You don't draft a player 16th overall to sit and learn. At that spot you expect them to play, either to prep for the next season in the case of QBs, or contribute right away, more often the case for D players.

 

I'm not sure that time is what Manuel needs, he needs reps. Can he shake the problems and issues that plagued him at FSU? Right now he has the same ones with little progress. If nothing else they need to ascertain whether or not he's the long-term solution.

 

A lot of fans' patience has run out, a while ago in many cases.

 

 

 

You touched on a good point, this year's Draft is much more QB rich, perhaps one of the best ever. Will we participate? I doubt it, for the very reason that you cite.

 

That's why IMO it was stupid to draft a QB in round 1 last year. But hey, OBD is full of stupid moves.

 

Whether EJ was worth drafting at #16 is a completely different topic. The reality is that Bills drafted a project QB at #16, but fans expect him to be an effective immediate contributor. There are many cases where QBs' development is hampered by being thrown into live action too early. There are many things to focus on in game day preparation to also deal with fixing the mechanics. Very few QBs come into the league fully NFL-ready. There's a reason coaches were loath to start rookie QBs in the past. If anything, the game is faster and more complex now. So why the sudden expectation that rookie QBs with less college experience than in the past would have more success when thrown into the fire now?

 

I understand that the roster compositions and free agency drive the urge to play youngsters a lot more. But the complexity of the game hasn't changed, and the basic fact remains that many young QBs would benefit from sitting out their rookie years.

[RuntheDamnBall]

You don't draft a player 16th overall to sit and learn. At that spot you expect them to play, either to prep for the next season in the case of QBs, or contribute right away, more often the case for D players.

 

I'm not sure that time is what Manuel needs, he needs reps. Can he shake the problems and issues that plagued him at FSU? Right now he has the same ones with little progress. If nothing else they need to ascertain whether or not he's the long-term solution.

 

A lot of fans' patience has run out, a while ago in many cases.

 

 

 

You touched on a good point, this year's Draft is much more QB rich, perhaps one of the best ever. Will we participate? I doubt it, for the very reason that you cite.

 

That's why IMO it was stupid to draft a QB in round 1 last year. But hey, OBD is full of stupid moves.

And if EJ succeeds?

 

I think it's possible that EJ will benefit from some time away to be able to see things from the box in ways that he can't on the field.

 

Anything that can slow this game down for him will be a plus, as far as I'm concerned.

 

That said, will that be balanced out by the reps he's missing? Debatable, and unknowable.

[RCOHEN13]

I agree with the topic, and was actually going to start this but for a different reason.

 

Most of us don't expect them to make the playoffs, let alone make a deep run.

But with a back-up QB, they may lose more games giving them possably a top 5-10 draft pick, while the rest of the team gets more experience.

Also gives coaches a year to evaluate the talent they have.

 

Yes, but if we do land a top 5-10 pick.... With this years crop of QB's coming out and EJ missing good chunk of yr with very few games going to be left for him to impress. We would be nuts not consider a QB. I love EJ, but really felt they should have waited for this upcoming draft for a QB cuz even in mid 1st round, there will be better QB talents than EJ.

 

If some of these underclassmen declare, this will be deepest pool of QB's probably ever. There are 9-10 QB;s that could all make a case for being a 1st round pick.

[PolishDave]

Whether EJ was worth drafting at #16 is a completely different topic. The reality is that Bills drafted a project QB at #16, but fans expect him to be an effective immediate contributor.

 

Fact of the matter is that when you make a round one pick then you are making a major statement. Round one pick means that “We believe this guy is going to be one of the best at his position in the NFL.” (not immediately, but reasonably soon) If he is not at least average by the end of his first year, then you screwed up. Fans will give him time to prove himself, but not more than one season. And they shouldn't be expected to give him more than one season to look average or better. If he has greatness in him (as everyone says), then he should look pretty good (with more upside potential yet) by the end of this season. If he doesn't look at least average (with more upside potential yet), then I would declare him to be “too big of a project” and try very hard to find someone else to quarterback this team.

 

Waiting for more than one season for your most important position player to prove himself to be average or slightly above average is nuts unless you literally have no better options.

[bonechiller]

Yes, but if we do land a top 5-10 pick.... With this years crop of QB's coming out and EJ missing good chunk of yr with very few games going to be left for him to impress. We would be nuts not consider a QB. I love EJ, but really felt they should have waited for this upcoming draft for a QB cuz even in mid 1st round, there will be better QB talents than EJ.

 

If some of these underclassmen declare, this will be deepest pool of QB's probably ever. There are 9-10 QB;s that could all make a case for being a 1st round pick.

 

Thats Ok, because as stated above by Runthedamnball, it puts them in a good position to either take that QB, another need, or best trade offer.

Thats the "blessing", it presents many favorable options. Best case is EJ comes back with enough games to know if he is the one.

[Maury Ballstein]

Only "blessing in disguise" would be the better draft pick from the extra losses.

 

[Boatdrinks]

We've seen all of that here and it has not improved as the season has gone one giving me cause for concern.

 

Hmm. I believe he hit a nice post route to Woods vs Baltimore, no? Hasn't taken too many sacks, seems he has sensed the pressure just fine. As the season has gone on? They just finished the 1st month. Until we have a proven franchise QB there will be "cause for concern". It's just too early. I feel our inexperienced OC is hurting the development as well. EJ has to fight through it. We just aren't going to know for sure until at least a couple of seasons are played.