OMFG - Zel Miller!

[Rich in Ohio]

And the best part of it is its True

15335[/snapback]

 

 

So you were one of the 14 people who watched MSNBC's coverage.

[VABills]

Zel Miller:

 

"People who do you want!?"

 

"People who DO YOU WANT!?"

RNC (People):

 

"Barabus, BARABUS, BARABUS!!!"

 

 

15508[/snapback]

Okay Exiled you usually are okay, but based on your post you are now comparing Kerry to Jesus. This is maybe your most inane post ever.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Okay Exiled you usually are okay, but based on your post you are now comparing Kerry to Jesus.  This is maybe your most inane post ever.

15511[/snapback]

 

No I never said that... I am comparing GWB to Barabus. That's the only DIRECT correlation.

[VABills]

No I never said that... I am comparing GWB to Barabus.  That's the only DIRECT correlation.

15514[/snapback]

But with one comes the other. You can't seperate the relationship at only half. Otherwise you get a hanging chad.

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

Okay Exiled you usually are okay, but based on your post you are now comparing Kerry to Jesus.  This is maybe your most inane post ever.

15511[/snapback]

 

I caught that, but I said nothing...

 

I would have preferred...

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, PLEASE mark your ballots.

The choices are:

 

Charles X. Let's go to war. We want blood... I don't care.

Napoleon III. Money and prestige. I have a name. I AM somebody. My plans? umm

 

OR

 

Cromwell. Listen to what I say.. I am a true leader. I am never wrong.

Charles II. I am the rightful leader... I have a great bloodline. The past is past..

 

Just some tempting choices in the year of the inane Election of 2004!!

[ExiledInIllinois]

But with one comes the other.  You can't seperate the relationship at only half.  Otherwise you get a hanging chad.

15518[/snapback]

 

A hanging chad is still hanging... Was it intent or error in the system?

 

My point is that the people will choose the wrong guy all the time when they get riled up.

 

The chanting, the repeat phrases, etc... And they mock Dean out? Go figure?

 

ZM brainwashing... He was a Marine?...

 

Hide behind patriotism, nationalism, fear... That is what I viewd it as. People are scared of change, doing the right thing.

 

[Alaska Darin]

Live in fear? Shill the fear baby!  I hope my kids never grow-up fearing the unknown and looking for some protectorate.

 

You better not wake up tommorrow in fear of a terrorist attack?  Better yet, I shouldn't get in my car and drive to work, I am in more danger of getting hurt.

 

What changed ZM's mind?  911?  Come on.

15493[/snapback]

Yeah, the Democrats don't pray on fear. Not at all. Especially in the race department. Sure.

[IDBillzFan]

Holy crap, reading the left's response to Miller is like reading Bills fan responses when we cut Marcellus Wiley.

 

"Oh, he sucked anyway and he was just a bitter football player and we didn't need him anyway."

 

Remember, this is strategic from a sales standpoint, which means this isn't about anything more than what the Hot Pockets crowd can absorb when they're not watching American Idol, and what they will hear and see out of last night's speeches are the soundbites coming from a Vice President "John Kerry says there are two Americas, and it's mutual because America sees two John Kerrys" and a guy with a (D) next to his name suggesting John Kerry would fight terrorism with "spitballs."

 

No one really gives a crap when or why Nell decided to do what he did. As you heard from Matthew's panel last night, "The Democrats must've taken away Nell's parking spot."

 

Maybe Matthews wasn't talking over his own questions, but again, that's perception because anyone who watches Matthews knows that is what he does, and Nell hammered him on it, got in his face, made the news, and now Kerry is in deeper trouble today than he was yesterday. And I'd suggest that by the time Bush gets done tonight, you will have seen the same man who took charge in his Sept. 20th speech and the only dust left will be a bunch of Democrats praying he doesn't kill himself in the debates and wishing Kerry would fire his head coach, Gregg Williams.

[RuntheDamnBall]

BTW, if you get a chance read the Washington Post from today, they are basically saying this race is over and Kerry is lost.  They said he and his compaign team do not how to respond to anything or move forward.  They said the Repubs have basically ignored anything bad said about them and rolled on, but Kerry and crew (pun intended) still have figured out how to let it ride.

15482[/snapback]

If there is any hope for this country at all, the undecideds will be focusing on the debates, and not the one-sided grandstanding and talk-show defense going on at either convention. Only when these guys are face-to-face and not in the comfort zone of their supporters can we hope to get any real moments out of them.

 

Until then, people should take all this convention stuff at face value. The converted are going to agree already with just about everything being said. The undecideds (what I don't get is how one can still be undecided by now!?) will either drift back and forth like a crowd from a Simpsons episode ("program for kids!" "oh yeah, the taxes..." "but what about the kids" "taxes"), or, if they haven't heard enough, expect real vision from somebody at the debates.

 

That said, the Dems absolutely HAVE to go after Zell and point out that his views new and old are full of, ahem, complexities.

[IDBillzFan]

If there is any hope for this country at all, the undecideds will be focusing on the debates, and not the one-sided grandstanding and talk-show defense going on at either convention.  Only when these guys are face-to-face and not in the comfort zone of their supporters can we hope to get any real moments out of them.

 

Until then, people should take all this convention stuff at face value.  The converted are going to agree already with just about everything being said.  The undecideds (what I don't get is how one can still be undecided by now!?) will either drift back and forth like a crowd from a Simpsons episode ("program for kids!" "oh yeah, the taxes..." "but what about the kids" "taxes"), or, if they haven't heard enough, expect real vision from somebody at the debates.

 

That said, the Dems absolutely HAVE to go after Zell and point out that his views new and old are full of, ahem, complexities.

15685[/snapback]

Did you see on MSNBC the panel of 17 "undecided" voters in between the Hardball segment, where they were each given a device that allowed them to agree or disagree with the statements being made by Miller and Cheney? I wonder to what extent it really represents more than just 17 people, but aside from the one woman who clearly was NOT undecided, the rest of the group was very interesting as they gave their thoughts about the speeches.

 

At the end, the moderator-of-sorts asked the 17 people "After hearing these speeches tonight, how many of you have decided you will vote for George Bush?"

 

Eleven hands went up. To be fair, he should have also asked how many of you decided you would vote for Kerry and how many of you are still undecided, but he didn't do that.

 

Still, I thought that was one of the most interesting segments. When they got to Miller's "spitball" comment, all 17 people spiked the charts with "positive" responses, which in essence was saying "Yeah, Miller's right. Spitballs."

[jimshiz]

Zel Miller:

 

"People who do you want!?"

 

"People who DO YOU WANT!?"

RNC (People):

 

"Barabus, BARABUS, BARABUS!!!"

 

 

15508[/snapback]

 

That was disgusting and pretty offensive to this Christian. MoveOn thinks Bush is Hitler. A.N.S.W.E.R. thinks Bush is worse than Hussein. You think Bush is Barabas.

 

Just a metaphore I guess. Kind of like "spit balls", right?

 

JimKrazy

(the neo-con, racist, bigoted, lying, hypocrite, white, Republican, "not" compassionate Conservative, Fundamentalist Christian, heterosexual, anti-abortion, big business, gun owner who is no longer in vogue)

[Mickey]

http://www.gopconvention.com/cgi-data/spee...2y6q7930j.shtml

 

"Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations.

 

Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide.

 

John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.

 

That's the most dangerous outsourcing of all."

 

JimKrazy

15363[/snapback]

 

If you have a link to any statement by Kerry at any time where he stated that military force could only be used if approved by the UN no matter what the circumstances were, please provide it and if you fail to find one, I hope you will report back and tell us that it turns out Miller was lying.

[IDBillzFan]

If you have a link to any statement by Kerry at any time where he stated that military force could only be used if approved by the UN no matter what the circumstances were, please provide it and if you fail to find one, I hope you will report back and tell us that it turns out Miller was lying.

15756[/snapback]

Shouldn't you be asking Zell Miller that question?

[jimshiz]

If you have a link to any statement by Kerry at any time where he stated that military force could only be used if approved by the UN no matter what the circumstances were, please provide it and if you fail to find one, I hope you will report back and tell us that it turns out Miller was lying.

15756[/snapback]

 

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030721-103628-1890r.htm

 

"He said he voted for it with the expectation that the United States would build an international coalition and exhaust other remedies before attacking. He said he was not voting to give Mr. Bush permission "to make an end run around the United Nations.""

 

""We need to internationalize this. We need to do it now. We need to do it openly," he said."

 

""I know for a fact that there are countries prepared to be helpful" if they were acting under the United Nations, he said."

 

JimKrazy

(the neo-con, racist, bigoted, lying, hypocrite, white, Republican, "not" compassionate Conservative, Fundamentalist Christian, heterosexual, anti-abortion, big business, gun owner who is no longer in vogue)

[Mickey]

Shouldn't you be asking Zell Miller that question?

15770[/snapback]

 

The poster quoted him and apparently approves of the quote. I have never heard Kerry say any such thing and I am not the only one who thinks so:

 

"Kerry has never said that any other country should decide when the United States is entitled to defend itself." Imperial President, William Saletan, Slate

 

 

Unfortunately, Zell doesn't post here that often so I don't expect to get the chance to call him on it. I would think that before posting a lie like that, the poster would make an effort to check its accuracy. If you think it is accurate, please post a link, and if it turns out that Kerry never did say any such thing, I am sure you too will denounce him as a liar.

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

That was disgusting and pretty offensive to this Christian.  MoveOn thinks Bush is Hitler.  A.N.S.W.E.R. thinks Bush is worse than Hussein.  You think Bush is Barabas.

 

Just a metaphore I guess.  Kind of like "spit balls", right?

 

JimKrazy

(the neo-con, racist, bigoted, lying, hypocrite, white, Republican, "not" compassionate Conservative, Fundamentalist Christian, heterosexual, anti-abortion, big business, gun owner who is no longer in vogue)

15751[/snapback]

 

I already spoke with him about that... he realized it wasn't a good choice of post.

 

Who cares what MoveOn and ANSWER think? What matters most is the voting public.. they will decide, not some crazy ultra-liberal website!

 

(the hopelessly moderate, prejudiced, sinning, hyperactive, white, French-Canadian-American, "sometimes compassionate" Orthodox Christian, heterosexual, who DOESN'T care about abortion, properly regulate big business, gun owner who is NEVER in vogue, and will NEVER be cause everyone loves extremist, loud, whiz-bang name callers)

 

YES!!

[don_of_manhattan]

I've got to say that Miller was unbelievable in that speech. I had no idea he was going to come out like that. I honestly feel that his speech will have a very big impact on any undecided voters who are still on the fence (not that there are many of those).

 

And you can debate whether he's a true Dem or not, but in this age of the sound bite, just having that 'D' listed in front of his name will probably serve to sway some voters.

 

It's way too early to predict this horse race, but unless something drastic happens between now and Nov. 2nd, I sense the momentum heavily favoring Bush the rest of the way.

15385[/snapback]

It was stinging, but where was the substance - I have yet to hear anyone talk about what he will do - granted, it was a lot of bravado - but we don't live in this world alone - Bush is no tougher than anyone else - any President would have gone into Afghanistan after Al Queda - in fact, they probably would still be there instead of wasting resources in Iraq. With respect to Kerry not voting for the additional body armour - I understand that he voted against it because he wanted to pay for it with the tax cut given to the top 2% of income makers. But the question that I don't hear being asked nearly enough is - WHY THE HELL DID THEY SEND THEM OVER THERE (IN AN ELECTIVE WAR) WITHOUT THE ARMOUR IN THE FIRST PLACE???? Would they have sent their own kids over there without it? I find that unconscienable.

[RuntheDamnBall]

MoveOn thinks Bush is Hitler.

15751[/snapback]

Apparently this notion hasn't been de-bunked enough. The ad featuring footage of Hitler was not commissioned by MoveOn.org, rather it was entered in a contest that MoveOn sponsored and did not win. Once it reviewed the situation and received complaints, MoveON pulled the ad from being viewed on its site. It has only since been available on sites attacking MoveOn and, I might add, in a Bush ad, strangely enough.

 

It was not MoveOn-sponsored or approved, and no one representing the organization is equating Bush with Hitler. It's just another talking point to distract people from a discussion about the state this country is in and how to best move forward.

 

That said, anyone see the MoveOn ads featuring Republicans who are voting for Kerry? I think there is a lot of content there if people are willing to suspend their willingness to shoot the messenger.

[Mickey]

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030721-103628-1890r.htm

 

"He said he voted for it with the expectation that the United States would build an international coalition and exhaust other remedies before attacking. He said he was not voting to give Mr. Bush permission "to make an end run around the United Nations.""

 

""We need to internationalize this. We need to do it now. We need to do it openly," he said."

 

""I know for a fact that there are countries prepared to be helpful" if they were acting under the United Nations, he said."

 

JimKrazy

(the neo-con, racist, bigoted, lying, hypocrite, white, Republican, "not" compassionate Conservative, Fundamentalist Christian, heterosexual, anti-abortion, big business, gun owner who is no longer in vogue)

15794[/snapback]

 

I don't see a quote there where Kerry said that he would only use military force if approved by the UN, do you? I don't see those word there. I do see that he thought we should exhaust all other remedies before going it alone, a position not unlike that of the administration. I see that at present he wants more international participation and in a number of speeches he has talked about involving NATO, again, postions not unlike the administrations.

 

I just don't see how you convert "I know there are countries prepared to help" into "we should never use force unless the UN approves" unless you are just being hysterical and willing to misrepresent your opponents views beyond reason. I don't see how "We need to internationalize this..." means to you that same as "we should only use force if approved by the UN". Do I really have to go over it word by word with a dictionary to show that they do not mean the same? Lastly, how does wanting the President to go to the UN first and make a legitimate attempt at securing their support before attacking translate into a statement by Kerry that if in the end that support was lacking, the US shouldn't act anyway? This is essentially the President's opinion as well. The only difference is in whether one believes the President made a legitimate attempt at securing their help or just went through the motions.

 

Both sides want an alliance, as big an alliance as possible and both sides would, in general, agree that the US should go it alone if it has to. The only real difference is which man, Kerry or Bush, is more likely to be successful in securing as big an alliance as possible. We have seen what Bush was able or rather not able to achieve. As for Kerry, we can only speculate that he would have done better and will do better in the furture.

 

That is the issue to debate, not lying or twisting Kerry's words or Bush's for that matter.

[IDBillzFan]

The ad featuring footage of Hitler was not commissioned by MoveOn.org, rather it was entered in a contest the MoveOn sponsored and did not win.

 

Strictly and honestly asking out of curiousity; the ad must've made the rounds somehow. Was it ever posted on Moveon's website? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but you can probably tell why I'm asking it.