Overrated Owner and Organization

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

So Brady was a HOFer in the 6th round? The logic is baffling. They picked a guy with questionable ability and brought out the best in him. Why wouldn't they get credit for that?

 

Sorry it's baffling. Most people seem to grasp it pretty quickly. Brady was a winning lottery ticket. There were zero people outside of the Brady household that ever imagined him doing anything other than potentially making a Roster.

 

And New Englend gets all the credit there is for randomly buying that winning lottery ticket and managing not to cut him the first year.

 

If this was about NE's ability to develop QBs and not the fact that Brady was stacked with all the intangibles and desire that it took to get where he is, then Mallet, a MUCH better collegiate prospect should beat out Brady for an even better career or become a slam dunk first round draft pick trade candidate any time now. He's been "under development" a lot longer then Tommy boy was.

 

There is no Magical secret potion or script to develop scrubs into HOF QB's. Maybe Brady's success is as much as 10% Belicheck, 90% Brady. Even that seems a discredit to Tommy, who's existence immensely annoys me, just not enough to fallaciously claim him a subordinate to his own success.

Edited June 17, 2013 by over 20 years of fanhood

[OCinBuffalo]

This all sounds very petty. The Patriots are an excellent organization, from top to bottom, with excellent mgmt, marketing, coaching, and players that win. They are the winningest team in the NFL in the last 13 years.

 

With that said I want to destroy them on opening day. I've been praying in church after family etc, and ask God this year, let my Bills kill the Pats this year. Every once in awhile I start to daydream maybe this team pulls a Jim Harbaugh turnaround like the 49ers in one year.

 

Now an overrated organization is the Cowboys. I am so sick of hearing on NFL Radio about the Cowboys. Jerry Jones is a bloviating ass, who is not smart enough to know he needs to fire himself, and pick up a real GM. If he stuck to the marketing end of the organization, his team would be in much better shape. And he hates organizations like the Bills as he hates the revenue sharing.

Not nearly as petty as Kraft feeling the need to say "I don't answer to Tom Brady", publicly. If a "leader" has to go around reminding people who is in charge: he ain't.

 

Frankly I don't see much difference between Kraft and Jones, in terms of football acumen. The only real difference is: one has a HOF QB, the other has an ESPN-hyped clown(only slightly better than Sanchez, another ESPN-hyped clown), who is only considered "good" because there's a lot of Cowboy fans in 7 states that want to hear that.

 

Or, you can go here: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php get an account, like a certain message board troll who will remain nameless has, and ask "what do you guys think about the Patriot Way". The responses will range from apoplectic to hilarious. However NOBODY in Chiefs Nation thinks that the Patriots organization, is anything but a QB.

 

They should know, as they've hired, and then fired, multiple people from that organization, including their GM. Thus, to them, the Patriot Way is a joke.

 

Also, I wouldn't call Belechick's body of work in the draft, for the last 8 years: "excellent". I would call it the opposite of excellent, with some maybes at the end of that time frame. Just imagine if we had drafted DBs as many times as they have over the same amount of time. There are posters on this board that would literally go nuts. (Of course, the fact that they've drafted DB so many times, and still won, is something to consider as well)

 

These are the inconvenient facts that you will never hear ESPN or NFL Network talk about, because it is not in their financial interest to do so.

[Mr. WEO]

Sorry it's baffling. Most people seem to grasp it pretty quickly. Brady was a winning lottery ticket. There were zero people outside of the Brady household that ever imagined him doing anything other than potentially making a Roster.

 

And New Englend gets all the credit there is for randomly buying that winning lottery ticket and managing not to cut him the first year.

 

If this was about NE's ability to develop QBs and not the fact that Brady was stacked with all the intangibles and desire that it took to get where he is, then Mallet, a MUCH better collegiate prospect should beat out Brady for an even better career or become a slam dunk first round draft pick trade candidate any time now. He's been "under development" a lot longer then Tommy boy was.

 

There is no Magical secret potion or script to develop scrubs into HOF QB's. Maybe Brady's success is as much as 10% Belicheck, 90% Brady. Even that seems a discredit to Tommy, who's existence immensely annoys me, just not enough to fallaciously claim him a subordinate to his own success.

 

There is no logic at all in your Mallett analogy. Anyway, yeah, Brady is a very bright guy who had unforseen talent, but your inference that when Bledsoe went down that BB just looked down the bench, pointed at Brady and, presto!--unwrapped a HOF caliber QB is laughable.

 

Here's a simple question, would Brady been a HOF QB if picked by the Bills in round 6?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

There is no logic at all in your Mallett analogy. Anyway, yeah, Brady is a very bright guy who had unforseen talent, but your inference that when Bledsoe went down that BB just looked down the bench, pointed at Brady and, presto!--unwrapped a HOF caliber QB is laughable.

 

Here's a simple question, would Brady been a HOF QB if picked by the Bills in round 6?

 

Well since we are being honest, now you have baffled me. I don't know the answer to your simple question; in a parallel universe would a surely first ballot hall of famer have had a commensurate career if drafted by the Bills? I'll add he certainly might have.

 

 

I suppose you know the right answer or have some Analytics model than can provide a high confidence projection?

Edited June 17, 2013 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Bagel]

One additional fact may be instructive. The Krafts have also owned the MLS New England Revolution since their inception in 1995. There the Krafts have not found their Belichick or Brady. The Revolution’s aggregate record is 194-231-102. They have had 6 winning seasons in 17 years and have never won the MLS Championship. Perhaps post-Belichick/Brady the Patriots will revert to similar mediocrity.

[Mr. WEO]

Well since we are being honest, now you have baffled me. I don't know the answer to your simple question; in a parallel universe would a surely first ballot hall of famer have had a commensurate career if drafted by the Bills? I'll add he certainly might have.

 

 

I suppose you know the right answer or have some Analytics model than can provide a high confidence projection?

 

The answer is an opinion, obviously, and it is intuitive, not baffling. During Brady's tenure, the Bills have employed Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, and Gailey as HC. You can pretend you don't know how to answer this question if it helps your argument hold weight with you, but you aren't very convincing.

 

Just give me your opinion, that's all.

[Webster Guy]

Brady wasn't that great his first few years. He became great over time. And he did it within the culture of belichick (and Krafts) team. NE made Brady. Few other teams would have done anything with him. Least of all the Bills, who were stumbling through one awful HC after another during this time.

You can't be serious. Did you say Brady wasn't that great his first few years? His completion percentage in his first full year was higher than his career average. Oh and he won a championship. Obviously QB's get better over time but your statement is ridiculous.

 

So exactly what is the "culture of Belichick" that developed him? BIll's whopping 36-44 head coaching record at Cleveland? His last season there and his first one in NE he went 5-11. And that was WITH pro bowl QB Drew Bledsoe. Man that culture was really something.

 

You said "Few other teams would have done anything with him". You mean throw him into the game because your franchise QB just sheared a blood vessel in his chest. Yeah that's real genius strategic planning. Here you go Tom, good luck.

 

Their defense was ranked 24th in the league that year too. What a culture. He's done a great job with the defense lately too, as you can tell by their bottom of the league rankings.

 

Yeah Brady didn't do anything. Its was all Kraft and Belichick.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

The answer is an opinion, obviously, and it is intuitive, not baffling. During Brady's tenure, the Bills have employed Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, and Gailey as HC. You can pretend you don't know how to answer this question if it helps your argument hold weight with you, but you aren't very convincing.

 

Just give me your opinion, that's all.

 

I can see we are not advancing.

 

Brady was going to succeed no matter where he landed, because he has the fire and drive to do so and worked relentlessly to perfect his game in and off season. Bellicheck is a good coach too and yes together there are synergies that were complimentary. Would they have been independently successful? I think Brady more than Belicheck, but its conjecture. All the coaches at this level are pretty good, relentless workahaulics and super detail oriented.

 

 

The Pats were incredibly lucky and not at all aware of what they had in the 6th round pick they stumbled in to. And yes I think Brady would be Canton bound in any number of different scenario's coaching, team and otherwise, maybe even buffalo, who may not have cycle through so many coaches had a franchise QB succeeded Kelly earlier.

[Mr. WEO]

You can't be serious. Did you say Brady wasn't that great his first few years? His completion percentage in his first full year was higher than his career average. Oh and he won a championship. Obviously QB's get better over time but your statement is ridiculous.

 

So exactly what is the "culture of Belichick" that developed him? BIll's whopping 36-44 head coaching record at Cleveland? His last season there and his first one in NE he went 5-11. And that was WITH pro bowl QB Drew Bledsoe. Man that culture was really something.

 

You said "Few other teams would have done anything with him". You mean throw him into the game because your franchise QB just sheared a blood vessel in his chest. Yeah that's real genius strategic planning. Here you go Tom, good luck.

 

Their defense was ranked 24th in the league that year too. What a culture. He's done a great job with the defense lately too, as you can tell by their bottom of the league rankings.

 

Yeah Brady didn't do anything. Its was all Kraft and Belichick.

 

Completion percentage is nice. And yes, the pats won the SB his first year. He threw for over 25 TDs (mediocre benchmark) twice in his first 6 years as a starter. He didn't cross 4000 yards until his 5th year starting. Solid numbers but not "great".

 

Countering your theme of selecting stats that seem to prop up your argument, in 2011 the pats offense was ranked 6th in points allowed--which is obviously all that mattered except in your fantasy league. In fact, the pats D has ranked in the top 10 in fewest points allowed in 8 of Brady's 11 seasons as a starter--including 5 out of his last 6.

 

I never said Brady didn't do anything. I said he benefitted from his association with BB. Are you going to claim he would have done just as well on the Bills during the past 11 seasons?

 

"you can't be serious".