JPS Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Just when you peg a guy based on measurables, someone picks him later and is a genius. I can't say it should rule him out, but I agree that it is a concern. But Russ Wilson is too short. Montana can't throw. Flacco is too slow. I wouldn't just dismiss the guy. Is he a leader? Is he a gamer? Can he play QB? Do we have someone on the staff who knows what that looks like? More important questions to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 If everything else checks out, he should be drafted. It's not the be-all end-all, but it's a concern, IMHO. totally get that, and it is a valid concern. However, if you watch the tape, it isnt an issue, not with fumbles, or the velocity he throws with, accuracy, nothing. The only times it may be a factor would be throwing on the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Is this REALLY a concern? For the majority of the season cold weather isn't even an issue. And recently, it hasnt been an issue late in the season either. Plus, they make these things called gloves now, they help to grip the ball in bad weather. if everything else checks out, and HAND SIZE is what keeps us from drafting a good player, that is sad. I'm not saying by itself its a reason to reject him. With any player you have +'s and -'s, and this one definitely goes in the "-" column. If and when you draft a player depends on how you assess the net of them. And yes playing in an outdoor crappy weather stadium matters. Gloves can only go so far (lot of QBs don't even like them), there's really nothing you can do to compensate for hands that are as much as 1&1/2" shorter than other QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) 1 fumble every 3 games is alot? losing 1 fumble every 5 games is alot? The difference between the two is statistically insignificant--- although this is only total fumbles, not fumbles lost: Tyler Wilson - 0.008% of total touches Geno Smith - 0.013% of total touches totally get that, and it is a valid concern. However, if you watch the tape, it isnt an issue, not with fumbles, or the velocity he throws with, accuracy, nothing. The only times it may be a factor would be throwing on the run. I definitely like Wilson, although I can't say for certain how often he was stripped from behind while still in the pocket. You're right, he doesn't seem to have any issues throwing accurately on the run. Edited January 23, 2013 by Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I'm not saying by itself its a reason to reject him. With any player you have +'s and -'s, and this one definitely goes in the "-" column. If and when you draft a player depends on how you assess the net of them. And yes playing in an outdoor crappy weather stadium matters. Gloves can only go so far (lot of QBs don't even like them), there's really nothing you can do to compensate for hands that are as much as 1&1/2" shorter than other QBs. again, I think this gets overplayed, esp recently. How many bad weather games have we had in the last 5 -7 yrs. I think the number is amazingly low. Like many of you, i've watched virtually, if not every game for a long time and I can't honestly remember more than a handful of "bad weather" games recently. Does it snow in Buffalo, of course but not on gameday lately. The difference between the two is statistically insignificant--- although this is only total fumbles, not fumbles lost: my stats were based on total fumble vs. fumbles lost for Wilson only. basically he lost 1 fumble every 5 games. thats not alot in the grand scheme of things, esp with such "small" hands. Factor in the AWFUL oline play and that number may be less with a competent front 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Let's expand a little more: 2012 stats only Wilson - 401 passing attempts 40 runs - 2 fumbles 8 5/8 inch hands Smith - 512 passing attempts 69 runs - 8 fumbles Jones - 664 passing attempts 14 runs - 2 fumbles 9 hand Glennon 564 passing attempts 68 runs - 13 fumbles 9 3/8 hand Dysert - 480 passing attempts 108 runs - 0 fumbles 9 hand Nassib - 481 passing attempts 85 runs - 6 fumbles 10 hand Bray - 451 passing attempts 15 runs - 3 fumbles Manual - 387 passing attempts 104 runs - 6 fumbles 10 1/8 hand Barkley - 387 passing attempts 26 runs - 2 fumbles These are the guys coming out, some with huge hands who fumble a lot and other with small hands who don't. Wilson doesn't fumble more than others and in fact has shown pretty good ball security, even with a bad Oline in front of him. again, I think this gets overplayed, esp recently. How many bad weather games have we had in the last 5 -7 yrs. I think the number is amazingly low. Like many of you, i've watched virtually, if not every game for a long time and I can't honestly remember more than a handful of "bad weather" games recently. Does it snow in Buffalo, of course but not on gameday lately. my stats were based on total fumble vs. fumbles lost for Wilson only. basically he lost 1 fumble every 5 games. thats not alot in the grand scheme of things, esp with such "small" hands. Factor in the AWFUL oline play and that number may be less with a competent front 5. Exactly, Fitzpatrick had 8 fumbles in 16 games for us. That's 1 every two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 This is the one reason why I don't buy the "he had a horrible line and was running for this life the whole time" argument. He's not going to have a pristine line in the NFL, so he needs to learn to hang tough in the pocket. The last time we heard this excuse was when we drafted Losman. He could make all the throws, but his college success was stifled due to the poor line he played behind. Right. You overlooked the second part of that argument, which is, and he still had a pretty good year stat wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Let's expand a little more: 2012 stats only Wilson - 401 passing attempts 40 runs - 2 fumbles 8 5/8 inch hands Smith - 512 passing attempts 69 runs - 8 fumbles Jones - 664 passing attempts 14 runs - 2 fumbles 9 hand Glennon 564 passing attempts 68 runs - 13 fumbles 9 3/8 hand Dysert - 480 passing attempts 108 runs - 0 fumbles 9 hand Nassib - 481 passing attempts 85 runs - 6 fumbles 10 hand Bray - 451 passing attempts 15 runs - 3 fumbles Manual - 387 passing attempts 104 runs - 6 fumbles 10 1/8 hand Barkley - 387 passing attempts 26 runs - 2 fumbles These are the guys coming out, some with huge hands who fumble a lot and other with small hands who don't. Wilson doesn't fumble more than others and in fact has shown pretty good ball security, even with a bad Oline in front of him. Exactly, Fitzpatrick had 8 fumbles in 16 games for us. That's 1 every two games. Fitzpatrick? I thought we were talking about players that played QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbillsfan Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Head injuries scare me. Jones or Glennon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I want Wilson small hands,1964 haircut and all. Just when you peg a guy based on measurables, someone picks him later and is a genius. I can't say it should rule him out, but I agree that it is a concern. But Russ Wilson is too short. Montana can't throw. Flacco is too slow. I wouldn't just dismiss the guy. Is he a leader? Is he a gamer? Can he play QB? Do we have someone on the staff who knows what that looks like? More important questions to me. Thank you! Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 totally get that, and it is a valid concern. However, if you watch the tape, it isnt an issue, not with fumbles, or the velocity he throws with, accuracy, nothing. The only times it may be a factor would be throwing on the run. How about when the ball is slick/wet due to the rain or snow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 How about when the ball is slick/wet due to the rain or snow? Other thing is 2 of 3 divisional rivals are outdoor cold weather teams, and the 3rd is outdoors in Miami where they can get a lot of rain. While the Toronto series is in effect, that's a minimum 7 outdoor games, 5 cold weather, 2 often rains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 How about when the ball is slick/wet due to the rain or snow? Hasnt been an issue so far in rain. Snow? How many snow games do we play a yr.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 One thing that might help, arent they doing something different with the balls these days, like keeping them warm and more dry so guys can get a better grip than when a small hand fumble-prone Krieg played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 One thing that might help, arent they doing something different with the balls these days, like keeping them warm and more dry so guys can get a better grip than when a small hand fumble-prone Krieg played? Yeah, they keep their balls warm and soft so they're easier to grip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Let's expand a little more: 2012 stats only Wilson - 401 passing attempts 40 runs - 2 fumbles 8 5/8 inch hands Smith - 512 passing attempts 69 runs - 8 fumbles Jones - 664 passing attempts 14 runs - 2 fumbles 9 hand Glennon 564 passing attempts 68 runs - 13 fumbles 9 3/8 hand Dysert - 480 passing attempts 108 runs - 0 fumbles 9 hand Nassib - 481 passing attempts 85 runs - 6 fumbles 10 hand Bray - 451 passing attempts 15 runs - 3 fumbles Manual - 387 passing attempts 104 runs - 6 fumbles 10 1/8 hand Barkley - 387 passing attempts 26 runs - 2 fumbles These are the guys coming out, some with huge hands who fumble a lot and other with small hands who don't. Wilson doesn't fumble more than others and in fact has shown pretty good ball security, even with a bad Oline in front of him. Exactly, Fitzpatrick had 8 fumbles in 16 games for us. That's 1 every two games. Gee, a lot of work there. Too bad the hand size argument is about having the ability to put RPMs on ball when throwing, rather than having the dropsies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 By almost all accounts, he's been the best QB at the Senior Bowl. We should draft him at #8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yeah, they keep their balls warm and soft so they're easier to grip... How do they do this? Do they keep 'em in a sack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMan Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 How do they do this? Do they keep 'em in a sack? No, they hire somebody to just keep rubbing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 No, they hire somebody to just keep rubbing them. Isn't that Levitre's job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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