Ranking Bills Last 3 Starting QBs

[truth on hold]

 

 

Good post. Even if the formatting makes my eyes blur!

 

The first stat I looked for in all that mess was yards per attempt. YPA was as follows:

Ryan Fitzpatrick: 6.7

JP Losman: 6.6

Kelly Holcomb: 6.6

Trent Edwards: 6.5

 

That's a very narrow range. Also, a QB's YPA isn't affected by just his own play only--his supporting cast matters too. Kelly Holcomb had perhaps the worst supporting cast of the guys on that list, especially along the OL. There was one game in which the defense had shut down the Bills' running game, and the offensive line provided no pass protection whatsoever. Add to that the fact that the WRs had a lot of drops that day. The offense still put up 17 points, which to me indicates that the QB may have been the only offensive player who showed up that day. Additionally, Holcomb came very close to leading the Bills to victory over the Patriots, in Foxboro, back when New England still had a good defense. But, for that one game only, the Patriots just so happened to receive some help from the refs. What should have been a first and ten was turned into fourth and long, based on a ticky tack offensive pass interference call on Eric Moulds. Then on that fourth and long play, the Bills were out-coached. Rookie Roscoe Parrish was supposed to be the primary target, but the Patriots shifted to double coverage of Parrish just before the snap. Throwing it to Parrish would have been the wrong decision. Doing what Holcomb did--throwing it to Moulds well short of the first down marker--was also the wrong decision. Had Joe Montana been playing, he probably would have stood in the pocket, waited until Sam Gash came open, and would have thrown it to Gash. Obviously, Holcomb fell short of the Montana standard, both on that play and others. But he still may have been better than the other guys on the list, including Fitzpatrick. Holcomb was considerably more accurate than Fitzpatrick; and like Fitzpatrick he was good at getting rid of the ball quickly and making the OL look better than it actually was. On the other hand, Holcomb's arm was even weaker than Fitz's, and Fitz's decision-making may be slightly better than Holcomb's.

Holcomb and Fitz had similar games, I agree. Once defenses figured out they couldn't go deep and defended short routes and screens more, they were both goners.

 

One thing you kind of the touched on is how each new QB was an attempt to address the weakness of the former one:

 

Losman with the strong arm over Holcomb

Edwards with the intelligence and full field reads losman didn't make

Fitz with the toughness to take a hit if meant making a completion, which Edwards wouldn't do

 

In each case perhaps they bypassed a better guy by focusing on that one aspect.

 

Fitz arm - both accuracy and strength - is his perceived weakness. If history is any guide we will start and/or draft the guy with the best arm, overlook his other shortcomings, and perhaps bypass a better player.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Bufcomments]

Fitzpatrick is by far the better of the 3. Not even debatable. That's how bad Losman and Edwards were

 

Fitz put up more TD's more yards better completion %

 

Just look for yourself. Edwards best year was 11 TD's, 10INT's 2700 yds

 

Losman did better the Edwards, but Losmans best year was 3000 yds 19 TD's 14 INT's

 

Fitz makes mistakes, but he is 1000 x's better then Edwards and Losman were in the redzone

 

Fitz had 3 consecutive 3000 yds seaosns, threw for over 20 TD's 3 years in a row. He has the tendenancy to make an ill times INT, but Losman and Edwards were sack machines.

 

Yes we need to upgrade our QB position, but Fitz by far was better the Edwards and Losman. Not even a close debate

true

 

but could not wins enough games. all 3 of them

[Jerry Christ]

anyone who rates fitz below edwards and losman is a retard

 

yeah i went there

please get off his jock

 

seriously.........fitz is worse....I'd rather have either than him....that's saying alot dealing with trash.

[Big Hurt]

Do I have to pick one?? What did I ever do to you?

[BuffBill]

Since Jim Kelly retired:

 

NFL Caliber players:

Doug Flutie

Drew Bledsoe

 

Should have never been in the NFL:

Everyone else

 

Boy...this thread just shows us how bad we actually were over the years. pathetic. I guess Fitz was the best of the three...but that isn't saying much.

yea, when Fitz is the best you have had for close to a decade, it is a wonder we even win 4-6 games a year. Pathetic.

[Bronc24]

Honestly, I find it humourous that this debate even happens. It's like three dog owners standing around debating which dog has the best looking pile of sh*t in the back yard. No matter what angle you approach it from, it's still a pile of dog sh*t.

 

I suppose it's all relative. If your life revolves around looking at that pile of sh*t every day, you're bound to have an opinion on it.

[T master]

My rankings of the QB's since Kelly..

 

Crap to a solid backup (Flutie)

 

WOW, sure am glad your not GM in the NFL cause you prove by this reply that you don't know talent when you see it !!

 

Don't believe it just look at the dudes stats & winning percentage while in the NFL (or with the Bills i should say) especially in the second go round !!

[silvermike]

I've been trying to get that table formatted without success, so here's a link:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pi/share/NUq8Y

 

Now it's all QBs since Kelly, minimum 10 starts. Only Flutie has a winning record (21-9). RJ has the best rating at 85.5, and leads in yards per attempt, although you have to cancel out his many sacks. But since 2002, when Bledsoe took over, we have basically no difference between these guys.

 

Bledsoe, Fitz, Edwards, and Losman all had completion percentages between 59.1 and 60.9. That's something like one extra completion every 3 games. Four points of QB rating separate them. 0.15 yards per attempt. We've had, basically, the same quality of QB play for a decade now, although I'm surprised to see Bledsoe lumped in there.

[metzelaars_lives]

I've been trying to get that table formatted without success, so here's a link:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pi/share/NUq8Y

 

Now it's all QBs since Kelly, minimum 10 starts. Only Flutie has a winning record (21-9). RJ has the best rating at 85.5, and leads in yards per attempt, although you have to cancel out his many sacks. But since 2002, when Bledsoe took over, we have basically no difference between these guys.

 

Bledsoe, Fitz, Edwards, and Losman all had completion percentages between 59.1 and 60.9. That's something like one extra completion every 3 games. Four points of QB rating separate them. 0.15 yards per attempt. We've had, basically, the same quality of QB play for a decade now, although I'm surprised to see Bledsoe lumped in there.

 

Completion % is similar but look at the games of Losman and Edwards vs. Fitzpatrick. What is the difference? Let's see... FITZPATRICK THREW THE BALL TO WIDE RECEIVERS!!! When you're chucking the ball all over the field (I think most would agree that Fitz is/was TOO much of a "gunslinger) it's going to be harder to compile as high of a completion percentage vs. two guys (especially one of them) who were infamous for dumping the ball off to their running back when they came under the slightest durress. I'm actually shocked Fitz's completion % isn't a lot lower than that of the other two. Look at his yards per game. Over 50 yards more per game than both Losman and Edwards. Or about 33% more.

[Orton's Arm]

I've been trying to get that table formatted without success, so here's a link:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pi/share/NUq8Y

 

Now it's all QBs since Kelly, minimum 10 starts. Only Flutie has a winning record (21-9). RJ has the best rating at 85.5, and leads in yards per attempt, although you have to cancel out his many sacks. But since 2002, when Bledsoe took over, we have basically no difference between these guys.

 

Bledsoe, Fitz, Edwards, and Losman all had completion percentages between 59.1 and 60.9. That's something like one extra completion every 3 games. Four points of QB rating separate them. 0.15 yards per attempt. We've had, basically, the same quality of QB play for a decade now, although I'm surprised to see Bledsoe lumped in there.

 

Good post.

 

Elsewhere, I've noted that Holcomb, Losman, Edwards, and Fitzpatrick each have very similar yards per attempt stats. After looking at your link, I see that Drew Bledsoe, while with the Bills, had a yards per attempt stat which put him right in the middle of the Edwards/Losman/Fitz pack.

 

Flutie had a higher yards per attempt stat than any of the QBs listed above, and Johnson's YPA stat was higher still. Yards per attempt overstates the quality of Rob Johnson's play, because it doesn't take sacks into account. On the one hand, the Bills had a putrid OL back in the late '90s, and many of those sacks weren't Johnson's fault. But any time you have the most sacked QB in NFL history, there's plenty of blame to go around. Much of that blame belongs to Johnson.

 

Despite the sacks, it's quite possible that both Flutie and Johnson represented better QB play than anything we've seen since. Not that either Flutie or Johnson were good enough to be long-term answers at QB.

[Iraq Vet]

Fitz makes me miss Todd Collins and Billy "playbook" Joe (who could throw a ball 80 yards and I can't remember his last name).

 

 

At this point I would call up Rob Johnson.... or even 50 year old (and now fat) Jim Kelly could do better for 5 games until the rookie "to be named later" is ready.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Iraq Vet

[Floridabillsfan1]

I'm going to this out there . How good would JP Losman be ( have been ) in this read option style of football ? He had some wheels on him .

[Bufcomments]

Trentative had the best chance of being the most complete qb of the 3; better brain than JP, better arm than Fitz. Sure looked the part in this game against jags. Nice job of making good and quick decisions; looking off DBs; mixing up short, medium and long passes. That end zone corner route to hardy in particular, that's what makes an NFL qb, and something I've never seen out of Fitz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqFTXe54WyE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Edwards was playing with some confidence that game.

 

to me he was never the same after the hit in AZ, except for that one game vs San diego at the Ralph.

 

I'm going to this out there . How good would JP Losman be ( have been ) in this read option style of football ? He had some wheels on him .

I had the same thought .

 

Losman had some skills. It might have worked , but sadly we will never know.

[Stealth]

Edwards was playing with some confidence that game.

 

to me he was never the same after the hit in AZ, except for that one game vs San diego at the Ralph.

 

 

I had the same thought .

 

Losman had some skills. It might have worked , but sadly we will never know.

 

The SD game was after the az game. Edwards sucked because just like when he was in College he took too many hits and became gun shy. He had the most "potential" out of him and Losman. JP Losman should've never been a 1st rd pick. It was a panic move to get a qb. He was just awful hope and a prayer quarterback

[metzelaars_lives]

The SD game was after the az game. Edwards sucked because just like when he was in College he took too many hits and became gun shy. He had the most "potential" out of him and Losman. JP Losman should've never been a 1st rd pick. It was a panic move to get a qb. He was just awful hope and a prayer quarterback

 

Disagree whole-heartedly. Losman had an absolute cannon and could really run. He's one of those guys like Geno Smith who wanted to be a traditional pocket passer but would have been best served if he played to his talents and took off more. I mean Losman could really run. To be honest, Losman, Edwards and Fitz were all above average scramblers. I think Edwards was suited to be a game manager. As far as physical tools, there's no question Losman had Edwards beat.

[eball]

Disagree whole-heartedly. Losman had an absolute cannon and could really run. He's one of those guys like Geno Smith who wanted to be a traditional pocket passer but would have been best served if he played to his talents and took off more. I mean Losman could really run. To be honest, Losman, Edwards and Fitz were all above average scramblers. I think Edwards was suited to be a game manager. As far as physical tools, there's no question Losman had Edwards beat.

 

I'll never forget (much to my dismay) the Bills preseason game vs. Denver after Losman was drafted. JP threw a dart to a receiver near the Denver sideline and Shanahan was miked. He said something like, "wooo, we got a player here" referring to the throw. I almost soiled myself thinking, yes, we've got a QB.

 

Losman had great athletic ability and one hell of an arm. And yes, he was a very bad QB.

[RealityCheck]

All 3 QBs suck.

[bobobonators]

dude, what in the world is the point of this?

 

The 50yd BOMB to Stevie against Pitt a couple of years ago was the best play the Bills have had in the last 15 years..until SJ dropped it

 

Stop with the nonsense. We get that Fitz isn't great, but putting a highlight real of Trent Edwards against the Jaguars?? LMAO.

Edited March 12, 2013 by bobobonators

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

anyone who rates fitz below edwards and losman is a retard

 

yeah i went there

Glad he's gone but agree 100 % with this

 

I'm going to this out there . How good would JP Losman be ( have been ) in this read option style of football ? He had some wheels on him .

His best speed was in trying to catch DB's after he's hit them in the numbers