Simmons article questioning Ray Lewis

[J-E-T-S-L-O-L]

For something not worth reading, you seemed to take a lot of interest in what Barnwell wrote. I enjoy the site, despite Simmons' fawning over all things Boston.

I did. And it was painfully obvious to me at once, that since the Steelers defense allow fewer points then the Ravens, and score fewer points, not to mention won fewer games, that this was not gonna make Big Ben look good. Yet it was used as ammo by Steeler fans, to bash Flacco. I also was interested in comparing several QBs, but they didn`t mention anyone interesting except Matt Ryan.

But Ryan is a bad example, because he plays in a division with no defense, while the Ravens play in a very tough defensive division, especially in 2011, when all 4 teams had a top 10 defense.

The premise was interesting. But Barnwell had his mind set on writing a negative article about Flacco which ruined the whole thing.

[Mr. WEO]

The Pats are known juicers as well. Rodney got busted for HGH and obviously wasn't alone, given the number of older players they had who suddenly found the fountain of youth while there.

 

And Simmons claims that AP was clean when rehabbing. And that's based on what? A gut feeling? Yes, real objective there.

 

No he doesn't. Take a step closer to the screen, doc.

 

 

Then again, I like Adrian Peterson. I thought watching him carry footballs was just about the most exciting thing that happened last year. I liked living in something of a sports-movie fantasy world in which our hero gets maimed, defies the odds, and returns better than ever (and sooner than we ever imagined). I wanted to believe in the notion that someone could be noticeably better at playing running back than anyone else. I loved the thought of telling my grandkids someday, "Yes, I was there for Adrian Peterson."

Will I look back at Peterson's remarkable season someday and say, "God, how did we NOT know? How stupid were we?" I say no.

But I don't know for sure. And that's the problem. There is no such thing as "the benefit of the doubt" anymore. Not in sports. Too many people took advantage. All the benefits are gone.

 

Anyway, you say Simmons makes his claim "based on what? A gut feeling? Yeah rel objective there." Yet you tell that there was widespread dpoing on the pats because Harrison got busted and they had a bunch of older guys on the team playing well. To use your often misused tag line "oh, the irony".

 

Anyway, if there is a medical benefit to HGH in recovery, why on earth should it be illegal to use for this purpose? It makes no sense to withhold beneficial mdical therapy to a patient. Perhaps they should start labeling it "performance restoring drugs".

 

The problem with ol Ray Lewis is that he has made such a clown of himself denying the use of these substances. Just tell us you used them and didn't know they were banned substances instead of insulting our intelligence with crazy references to God and the devil.

[Bronc24]

 

I did. And it was painfully obvious to me at once, that since the Steelers defense allow fewer points then the Ravens, and score fewer points, not to mention won fewer games, that this was not gonna make Big Ben look good. Yet it was used as ammo by Steeler fans, to bash Flacco. I also was interested in comparing several QBs, but they didn`t mention anyone interesting except Matt Ryan.

But Ryan is a bad example, because he plays in a division with no defense, while the Ravens play in a very tough defensive division, especially in 2011, when all 4 teams had a top 10 defense.

The premise was interesting. But Barnwell had his mind set on writing a negative article about Flacco which ruined the whole thing.

 

That's the beauty of the site though, isn't it? Writer A pens an article which Reader B takes exception to and elicits an emotional response or starts a debate? That's why we are on this board, for God's sake. I question Simmons' motives in the article, especially in light of the Pats* loss to the Ravens, but he makes many valid and interesting points I agree with.

 

To dismiss an entire site based on your disagreeing with one article's premise is, IMO, a fairly shallow take.

[J-E-T-S-L-O-L]

The problem with ol Ray Lewis is that he has made such a clown of himself denying the use of these substances. Just tell us you used them and didn't know they were banned substances instead of insulting our intelligence with crazy references to God and the devil.

Ray is obviously lying. But when did he use it? The "proof" that he got it, is over 2 years old. And it`s possible to return from a triceps injury after 2 months. It`s not like Ray Lewis has been a beast physicly the last couple of years, to suggest he is using something. He plays the game like an old man. If it wasn`t for his leadership skills and experience, he could`ve been replaced by a practise squad player.

Edited February 3, 2013 by J-E-T-S-L-O-L

[Doc]

No he doesn't. Take a step closer to the screen, doc.

 

 

Then again, I like Adrian Peterson. I thought watching him carry footballs was just about the most exciting thing that happened last year. I liked living in something of a sports-movie fantasy world in which our hero gets maimed, defies the odds, and returns better than ever (and sooner than we ever imagined). I wanted to believe in the notion that someone could be noticeably better at playing running back than anyone else. I loved the thought of telling my grandkids someday, "Yes, I was there for Adrian Peterson."

Will I look back at Peterson's remarkable season someday and say, "God, how did we NOT know? How stupid were we?" I say no.

But I don't know for sure. And that's the problem. There is no such thing as "the benefit of the doubt" anymore. Not in sports. Too many people took advantage. All the benefits are gone.

 

Anyway, you say Simmons makes his claim "based on what? A gut feeling? Yeah rel objective there." Yet you tell that there was widespread dpoing on the pats because Harrison got busted and they had a bunch of older guys on the team playing well. To use your often misused tag line "oh, the irony".

 

Anyway, if there is a medical benefit to HGH in recovery, why on earth should it be illegal to use for this purpose? It makes no sense to withhold beneficial mdical therapy to a patient. Perhaps they should start labeling it "performance restoring drugs".

 

The problem with ol Ray Lewis is that he has made such a clown of himself denying the use of these substances. Just tell us you used them and didn't know they were banned substances instead of insulting our intelligence with crazy references to God and the devil.

Gee, how'd I know the part about the Patriots would get you to respond? It's like your dinner bell.

 

"I believe Adrian Peterson came back naturally." You were saying?

 

And my position has been that most players are using HGH because it helps and it's not tested for. So there's no irony regarding the Pats or Lewis. Whether it should be banned or not is another debate. And whether deer antler spray should be banned when there is no proof it works is even another debate.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Doc

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

"I believe Adrian Peterson came back naturally." You were saying?

 

Doc, from an immediate standpoint you're right; Simmons does think that Peterson is clean. However, that misses the point of his article. He's arguing that every quick recovering athlete, every athlete who's playing beyond his supposed prime, needs to be questioned as a possible cheater. Given a gamut of variables -- age, general health, past medical/drug history, comorbidities, speed of recovery, position played, relationship with the press/general demeanor -- we can adjust our index of suspicion for a given athlete. Taken all these things together, Simmons is in a position to say that Peterson is most likely clean, but we can't rule out foul play. Conversely, someone like Lewis will garner more suspicion.

 

On a continuum, from 0-10, with 5-10 being "I believe you range," Simmons probably puts Peterson around a 7 -- saying that "hey, his recovery time was a bit quick, but James Andrews has a good alibi for it". For what it's worth, I would place someone like Barry Bonds (old, expanding head, adversarial toward the press) at 0; someone like Mariano Rivera at 10 (honestly if Mo ever cheated there would be nothing holy in this world and I would reflexively punch out my eardrums if I ever heard "Enter Sandman" again).

 

And I would say that Lance precipitated this argument just as much as Lewis, with an assist to the guy who was fired for his comments about RGIII (as it relates to the omertà around controversial topics in the sports world). So I'm not wholly convinced this is sour grapes on the part of a Pats fan.

Edited February 3, 2013 by OvrOfficiousJerk

[Mr. WEO]

Gee, how'd I know the part about the Patriots would get you to respond? It's like your dinner bell.

 

"I believe Adrian Peterson came back naturally." You were saying?

 

And my position has been that most players are using HGH because it helps and it's not tested for. So there's no irony regarding the Pats or Lewis. Whether it should be banned or not is another debate. And whether deer antler spray should be banned when there is no proof it works is even another debate.

 

My dinner bell? It's the only meal on your menu!

 

I was just pointing that you were taking him to task (misguidedly) for going exactly what you have done.

 

Anyway, he says he's not sure if AP is clean, that's what I was saying. It's the theme of his whole piece that you missed.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

My dinner bell? It's the only meal on your menu!

Oh, the irony.

I was just pointing that you were taking him to task (misguidedly) for going exactly what you have done.

 

Anyway, he says he's not sure if AP is clean, that's what I was saying. It's the theme of his whole piece that you missed.

Okay, I see where we're having the disconnect. I said Simmons claimed AP is clean, when he really said he believes he is. Fair enough. It's mostly a semantic argument since it's going off what he believes, and he chooses to believe one player is clean and another player is not, based on what he perceives to be expected rehab times. My point is that what one believes is colored by his/her inherent biases (in his case, being a Pats fan), while there is no reason to believe anyone is clean, given the advantages of taking HGH and the virtual undetectability of using it. I think the question he should be asking is "does deer antler spray do a damned thing?"

[Prickly Pete]

Sometimes I think the Bills just don't have a well enough connected medical/conditioning staff. That might be one of the most important ingredients for a successful NFL team.

[Mr. WEO]

Oh, the irony.

 

Okay, I see where we're having the disconnect. I said Simmons claimed AP is clean, when he really said he believes he is. Fair enough. It's mostly a semantic argument since it's going off what he believes, and he chooses to believe one player is clean and another player is not, based on what he perceives to be expected rehab times. My point is that what one believes is colored by his/her inherent biases (in his case, being a Pats fan), while there is no reason to believe anyone is clean, given the advantages of taking HGH and the virtual undetectability of using it. I think the question he should be asking is "does deer antler spray do a damned thing?"

 

I believe there is a retraction in there somewhere. Anyway, AP isn't on the roster, last I checked. Is he a fishing buddy of BB too?

 

You need to look up "irony"..

Edited February 3, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

I believe there is a retraction in there somewhere. Anyway, AP isn't on the roster, last I checked. Is he a fishing buddy of BB too?

 

You need to look up "irony"..

You need to follow threads better.

[C.Biscuit97]

If your referring to roids, it can't be said until he comes out and admits it or fails a test.

 

I dare say that (without any knowledge or proof) that over 90% of the league (leaving out the kickers) are on roids.

 

I hate this but I guess it's the culture we're living in. But honestly, there are people who are just physical freaks and don't need to do roids. I could put up 300+ lbs. bench weighing 185 lbs. and never did a supplement in my life. And I couldn't sniff the NFL. The main thing I think players do is take things to help them recover, which I really don't have a problem with.

 

And I love Simmons and Grantland but he comes across as a bitter, whiny Pats here. The Pats were filled with cheaters (Harrison, Bruschi, etc.). Yet, I never saw those articles from him. He's a really good writer though, jsut a bit of a homer.

[todzilla]

I hate this but I guess it's the culture we're living in. But honestly, there are people who are just physical freaks and don't need to do roids. I could put up 300+ lbs. bench weighing 185 lbs. and never did a supplement in my life. And I couldn't sniff the NFL. The main thing I think players do is take things to help them recover, which I really don't have a problem with.

 

And I love Simmons and Grantland but he comes across as a bitter, whiny Pats here. The Pats were filled with cheaters (Harrison, Bruschi, etc.). Yet, I never saw those articles from him. He's a really good writer though, jsut a bit of a homer.

He's a huge homer, and never shys away from that. He's made references to the fact that he turns a blind eye to the Red Sox and their probable cheating. I think it would be great to ask him if he would have written the article if Lewis was a patriot and they were in the bowl. If he was from Buffalo and became one of the most prominent sports writers in the country, we would love his unabashed love for the home team. He just happens to cheer for teams we hate. Anyway, I've been a Simmons fan for years and still think he is a great writer, especially an article like this one.

[mrags]

 

Oh, it most definitely can be said before then. If we have learned anything about PEDs, it is "where there is smoke, there is fire".

i wouldn't doubt that over 80% of the league used some form of roids.