mrags Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Is this some kind of joke? Passing statistics have increased exponentially over the past decade. Fitz' stats in 2011-12 would have been top 10 or even top 5 in 2002-05. Tom Brady was not considered a game manager in 2003-04. Ben Roethlisberger was not a game manager. Your point is what exactly? my point is these 2 quarterbacks that have won a total of 5 Superbowls and been to more had thier best seasons statistically and Didnt win the Super Bowl. Yet thier worst years of thier careers they won the big game. They were game managers at the time of winning these Suoer Bowls. Anybody that wants to argue that point clearly Didnt watch them play those seasons. Since the Pats have won a Super Bowl Tom Brady has statistically destroyed passing records in the NFL and yet they haven't win a Super Bowl with all of that success. They were cheaters and on top of that, they had strong defenses and relied much more on the run than they do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) my point is these 2 quarterbacks that have won a total of 5 Superbowls and been to more had thier best seasons statistically and Didnt win the Super Bowl. Yet thier worst years of thier careers they won the big game. They were game managers at the time of winning these Suoer Bowls. Anybody that wants to argue that point clearly Didnt watch them play those seasons. Since the Pats have won a Super Bowl Tom Brady has statistically destroyed passing records in the NFL and yet they haven't win a Super Bowl with all of that success. They were cheaters and on top of that, they had strong defenses and relied much more on the run than they do now. You're insane. It is possible you are suggesting that they were not able to win all by themselves, which is obviously true. The most complete team wins, and any team relying on the passing game alone will not win. That is the extent of the benefit of the doubt I will give you. Tom Brady's statistics were amongst the league leaders in every year since 2002. As the NFL passing game has evolved, so have his statistics (and those of other top QBs) improved. In 2005 Ben Roethlisberger started only 12 games due to injury. His cumulative statistics were not amongst the league leaders, however, he led the league in the following categories: Yds/Pass Att - 8.9, Yds/ Pass Comp. - 14.2, Passing TD% - 6.3% and was 3rd in Passer Rating - 98.2 I don't know what else to say. "Game manager" is a term reserved for the likes of Trent Dilfer, Alex Smith & Christian Ponder. There is no corroborative evidence or commentary that suggests either of them were considered "game managers" of the vintage you offer. Yes, the Patriots are cheaters. And the Seahawks were perhaps cheated out of a competitive chance at a Super Bowl victory. Edited January 21, 2013 by Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) You can believe what you want. Ill believe the facts that 3 out of 4 of Tom Brady's worst statistical years he won the Super Bowl. Bens worst 2 seasons were also Super Bowl wins. The teams that win those games were highly defense and heavily run orientated teams. There is really nothing more for me to say. I've given factual evidence to support my argument. It's up to you to decide if you want to believe it or not. I'm done. Gnight Edited January 21, 2013 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 no. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in Syracuse Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Let history show that their cheating was the sole cause of their Superbowl success. The NFL will never allow their ethics to taint the brand that is the NFL but we as fans are proven time and time again that although NE is an excellent team over the past decade they can not legitimately win a title and I believe Brady will never win another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) You can believe what you want. Ill believe the facts that 3 out of 4 of Tom Brady's worst statistical years he won the Super Bowl. Bens worst 2 seasons were also Super Bowl wins. The teams that win those games were highly defense and heavily run orientated teams. There is really nothing more for me to say. I've given factual evidence to support my argument. It's up to you to decide if you want to believe it or not. I'm done. Gnight Wow. Hardly. The point you've "proven" is not the point you were making. Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger were not game managers no matter how tightly you close your eyes and click your heels. I've never heard anyone suggest such a thing. The average statistics for a top tier QB from 2002-05 would be considered slightly below average today. In later seasons, the passing game came to the forefront in both New England and Pittsburgh, statistics became exaggerated across the NFL and the team's offenses became arguably less balanced. I've already agreed that the versions of the Pats and Steelers with more sparkling passing numbers and shoddier defenses have had difficulty winning in the postseason, but this is obvious and also not the point you were making. There is ample evidence that both Brady and Roethlisberger were responsible for several dramatic comebacks and winning performances during that stretch. Their "legend" was born out of such performances. Not from "game managing" as other players led the way. Edited January 21, 2013 by Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 i should hope the Bills had this type of dynasty questioned, no? jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 i should hope the Bills had this type of dynasty questioned, no? jw If it is at the expense of a scumbag coach and destroyed cheating evidence, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Big Time Tarnished. In the History Books, they cheated like Lance Armstrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Big Time Tarnished. In the History Books, they cheated like Lance Armstrong. The entire team took PEDS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Wow. Hardly. The point you've "proven" is not the point you were making. Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger were not game managers no matter how tightly you close your eyes and click your heels. I've never heard anyone suggest such a thing. The average statistics for a top tier QB from 2002-05 would be considered slightly below average today. In later seasons, the passing game came to the forefront in both New England and Pittsburgh, statistics became exaggerated across the NFL and the team's offenses became arguably less balanced. I've already agreed that the versions of the Pats and Steelers with more sparkling passing numbers and shoddier defenses have had difficulty winning in the postseason, but this is obvious and also not the point you were making. There is ample evidence that both Brady and Roethlisberger were responsible for several dramatic comebacks and winning performances during that stretch. Their "legend" was born out of such performances. Not from "game managing" as other players led the way. again, believe what you want man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoutbox Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 i should hope the Bills had this type of dynasty questioned, no? jw No. I'd rather my favorite sports team not resort to cheating. But Marc Miller is the kind of guy that values integrity. I'm weird like that, I know. Maybe it's a Western NY thing. The 2001-2012 Patriots will forever be known as a really good AFC team that dominated a pathetically weak division, padded their stats on the bad/mediocre teams, held their own with the other AFC giants, but couldn't win the big one without cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Perhaps, but Brady is getting old too. He's not the same guy at 30 whatever as he was in 2002. No matter how much ESPN and the rest of the media jerk him off... I thought Brady look old today. A few years ago he would have ran for a couple of those first downs. He is just a dropback QB now. Plus this is 2 straight AFC title games he was outplayed by the younger Flacco. I know hard to believe right? He may have a couple of years left. At the most. Hopefully because I am so damn tired of him kicking the Bills ass every year. We maybe seeing the end of a fantastic career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) No. I'd rather my favorite sports team not resort to cheating. But Marc Miller is the kind of guy that values integrity. I'm weird like that, I know. Maybe it's a Western NY thing. The 2001-2012 Patriots will forever be known as a really good AFC team that dominated a pathetically weak division, padded their stats on the bad/mediocre teams, held their own with the other AFC giants, but couldn't win the big one without cheating. and in my book, i think Bill Belichick is the most innovative and best game-preparers in the business. ... how he beat the Broncos by conceding a safety in the final minute a few years back had nothing to do with cheating, and everything to do with playing the long odds left before him. how the Patriots dismantled the Bills 56-10 on that Sunday night game was the best offensive display of football i've ever seen. how Belichik went for it on fourth down time and time again to keep Peyton off the field was his only recourse. it didn't ultimately work, but it was to his credit that he kept going for it. how he stockpiled draft picks to add value and overcome having to pick late in the first round was ingenious. how he went after not one but two tight ends because he saw how they could fit his system was smart, and something any team -- including the Bills -- should be faulted in their failure to adapt. jw's the kind of guy that values a free drink and a good whiskey at any time of day. i'm weird like that. couldn't tell you if it's a western new york thing, but it's better than overpriced beer in toronto. jw Edited January 21, 2013 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 again, believe what you want man. Yes. Reality, logic, facts, etc. Enjoy the tin foil hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Yes. Reality, logic, facts, etc. Enjoy the tin foil hat. touche Again, facts: Tom Brady: First 6 years of his career starting his highest TD total per season was 28. Since then, his lowest TD total per season 28. With a 50 burger in there and a few high 30s as well. First 6 seasons highest yards per season just over 4,100. Since then, his lowest yards per season 3,900 with two 4,800 yard seasons and a 5,200 yard season. Again, facts!!! I might have gotten a little over exaggerated with the term "Game Manager" but his best years of his career he hasn't won a Super Bowl. When he was in a more balanced offense he won his rings. Those are the facts and they are indisputable. Edited January 21, 2013 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Defending the Pats makes me feel gross but I will not bash them like some butt hurt child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) The Pats legacy is solid but it's curious that they don't pull games out of their asses like they did before Spygate. I'm convinced some of those "miracle" wins were from cheating. PTR Most likely it's because they miss guys whose names are Bruschi, Seymour, Harrison, Law, Samuel, McGinest, Vrabel, and Colvin more than anything. Keep in mind that this years Pats team has been totally re-built and bears very little resemblance to their (01-04) dynasty team. The only players on this years Pats team that were on that dynasty team are Brady, Wilfork and Branch. Edited January 21, 2013 by Pneumonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Most likely it's because they miss guys whose names are Bruschi, Seymour, Harrison, Law, Samuel, McGinest, Vrabel, and Colvin more than anything. Keep in mind that this years Pats team has been totally re-built and bears very little resemblance to their (01-04) dynasty team. The only players on this years Pats team that were on that dynasty team are Brady, Wilfork and Branch. Woah, don't let facts get in the way of this long running joke that explains the Pats (no asterisk) success . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Woah, don't let facts get in the way of this long running joke that explains the Pats (no asterisk) success . Not sure what you mean but that Pats dynasty team has almost zero association with this years Pats team and really all Pats teams dating back to '07. It would be like associating Marv's SB teams with Williams' teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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