It's not Just about Money: Why the fre ride for "Real refs&#3

[Astrojanitor]

Jeeeeze .... These guys already get paid between $300 and $600 per hour for a part time job. I'll do that job for that pay with out a pension.

 

By the way, I am 35 what is a pension? The masses of people that refuse to save their own money for their own retirement and would rather make that someone elses problem baffle me.

 

If you don't like maket volitility there are investment options available for that in 401ks too.

 

This baby boomer entitlement generation has completely bankrupted so many companies. Counties, states and countries it's absurd. Refinancing and taking cash out of their home to pay their $300/mo cable bill they must have, or their new car every five years they "deserve" along with their 3000 Sqft home they can't afford.

 

Now it's time to bankrupt football?

 

I say take that 3 million in entitlement denands and develop a state of the art training program that develops any 20/20 eyed, halfway football smart person off of the street into a capable ref. absolutely subject them to peer review of performance and fire those who don't perform.

 

Let those whiners go find some other part time gig that pays $600/hour.

 

This entire post is lunacy. Somehow the officials are too rich for making $180,000 a year, but the $9,000,000,000+ a year business is going to go bankrupt by spending less than .01% of their revenue on quality officiating. You're right, billionaires have it tough. Nice to know someone has their back. How dare an employee feel "entitled" to a comfortable retirement after loyally serving a company.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

This entire post is lunacy. Somehow the officials are too rich for making $180,000 a year, but the $9,000,000,000+ a year business is going to go bankrupt by spending less than .01% of their revenue on quality officiating. You're right, billionaires have it tough. Nice to know someone has their back. How dare an employee feel "entitled" to a comfortable retirement after loyally serving a company.

 

I don't have anyone's back. I know its easy for bloggers here to spend nfl billionaires money on refs "paultry" demands. But where does it end?

 

We all have the option to choose to dedicate our lives to building the wealth and connections to buy or build an nfl franchise. But it's hard. What is easy is sitting back casting stones and articulating why the officials who are volunteers in many leagues around the world are entitled to pensions on top of the aggregious hourly rate. I suppose if Mario Williams held out for 20 million more in pension guarantees, thats fair too? He's no billionaire. Why should he be expected to save his own money for retirement???

 

Many pensions are ponzi schemes. People are promised fixed incomes that in aggregate far exceed contributions with little explanation where the principle appreciation is coming from. I saw the first hand consequences of 50 year old retirees getting full pensions after 30 years of working at union cadence when the auto industry blew up.

 

You get paid to do a job. When your done doing that job nobody "owes" you anything more because you did it they paid you for your work at the rate of pay you agreed to.

 

The refs are not victims and have every right to save this suplimental income to fund their retirement. I'd rather pay twenty cents less for my next football ticket than guarantee refs with lavish hourly rates and regular full time jobs get additional retirement benefits just because they do something in their free time many do for free.

[Rob's House]

I love the line of thinking here: The NFL is highly profitable RIGHT NOW so the league should capitulate to whatever demands the refs make for lifetime pay & benefits. Deep thoughts, guys. Deep thoughts.

[Mr. WEO]

I don't understand this logic. Most people get a raw deal when it comes to their retirement money so everyone should get a raw deal? NFL has more than enough to take care of their employees and is choosing not to. To what end? So they save what amounts to pocket change for them? And you may consider the officials are just indulging in a hobby, but I call them skilled labor. We have seen the difference in quality over and over again. The officials are being asked to turn full time with a salary increase that does not equal the amount they earn from their second job. They are expected to lose their guaranteed pension. All so the owners can literally save pennies. $10 for a beer and suddenly there is no money to compensate their employees? NFL expects us to pay big money to experience an elite product, but they won't pay to put that quality on the field? And no one should accept that.

This entire post is lunacy. Somehow the officials are too rich for making $180,000 a year, but the $9,000,000,000+ a year business is going to go bankrupt by spending less than .01% of their revenue on quality officiating. You're right, billionaires have it tough. Nice to know someone has their back. How dare an employee feel "entitled" to a comfortable retirement after loyally serving a company.

 

Perhaps you understand the logic becuase it appears you don't understand the topic being discussed.

 

No, most people aren't "getting a raw deal when it comes to their retirement money". They have it in a fund (usually of their choice) and over the course of their career, it accrues increased value. It may take a dive curing bad times (mine did in '08 as did everyone's) and now it's back. That's how it works.

 

What "most people" don't have is any kind of pension. And those who do have one, have a 401k type plan, A very small percentage of workers in this country have a guaranteed benefit retirement plan. They are municipal workers.

 

Your "logic" that profitable companies should just give away unsustainable benefits when times are good would have qualified you to be CEO of GM about 10 years ago. That company went bankrupt and you and I had to bail it out. It never makes sense, ever, for any employer to guarantee a certain amount of money for future and current retirees. Look at all 50 states (with an unfunded employee pensiona laibility of nearly a trillion dollars) as well as GM to see how foolish this concept is.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

What is easy is sitting back casting stones and articulating why the officials who are volunteers in many leagues around the world are entitled to pensions on top of the aggregious hourly rate. I suppose if Mario Williams held out for 20 million more in pension guarantees, thats fair too? He's no billionaire. Why should he be expected to save his own money for retirement???

 

Many pensions are ponzi schemes. People are promised fixed incomes that in aggregate far exceed contributions with little explanation where the principle appreciation is coming from. I saw the first hand consequences of 50 year old retirees getting full pensions after 30 years of working at union cadence when the auto industry blew up.

 

You get paid to do a job. When your done doing that job nobody "owes" you anything more because you did it they paid you for your work at the rate of pay you agreed to.

 

The refs are not victims and have every right to save this suplimental income to fund their retirement. I'd rather pay twenty cents less for my next football ticket than guarantee refs with lavish hourly rates and regular full time jobs get additional retirement benefits just because they do something in their free time many do for free.

 

Okay so there are lots of officials in the very top of professional sports who are volunteers? Can you point out some of the sports leagues which have "volunteer officials?"

 

Also, why would "Mario Williams hold out for $20 million more in pension benefits?" He's a part of a class of people who collectively bargain for their benefits.

 

Many pensions are ponzi schemes? I assume you're trying to talk about "defined benefits." Is it possible that some pension funds are administered well and others are not?

 

There are many people who are owed money after their job is done. Are you familiar with the concept of severance pay? Have you heard of golden parachutes?

 

It's pretty simple. There is a union and there is the employer. In a perfect world, the two sides negotiate to head off a work stoppage.

 

Short of a perfect world, either the union strikes or the employer locks out the union.

 

In this case, the employer locked out the union.

 

This lockout has been detrimental to the game which includes the players (who's side do you think they're on?), the coaches (who's side do you think they're on?), the media (who's side do you think they're on?) and mostly the people upon who league benefits are generated… we the paying customers. Even in spite of the fact that only 52% of Americans have a positive view of labor unions, I'd bet that a much higher percentage is on the side of the locked out officials.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Okay so there are lots of officials in the very top of professional sports who are volunteers? Can you point out some of the sports leagues which have "volunteer officials?"

 

Also, why would "Mario Williams hold out for $20 million more in pension benefits?" He's a part of a class of people who collectively bargain for their benefits.

 

Many pensions are ponzi schemes? I assume you're trying to talk about "defined benefits." Is it possible that some pension funds are administered well and others are not?

 

There are many people who are owed money after their job is done. Are you familiar with the concept of severance pay? Have you heard of golden parachutes?

 

It's pretty simple. There is a union and there is the employer. In a perfect world, the two sides negotiate to head off a work stoppage.

 

Short of a perfect world, either the union strikes or the employer locks out the union.

 

In this case, the employer locked out the union.

 

This lockout has been detrimental to the game which includes the players (who's side do you think they're on?), the coaches (who's side do you think they're on?), the media (who's side do you think they're on?) and mostly the people upon who league benefits are generated… we the paying customers. Even in spite of the fact that only 52% of Americans have a positive view of labor unions, I'd bet that a much higher percentage is on the side of the locked out officials.

 

I didn't say top I said doing the same job for free. You chose to spin in inherent unintendend connotations.

 

Golden parachute? Ya Most recently in bloomberg. People like Nardelli or Fiorina. Is that going to be a new check box during open enrollment? What in the world does that or severance have to do with pension entitlement? Ugh... Clueless people with dsl....

 

I'd love to hear who people side with.... Assuming they get the whole picture.... Start a poll. I have watched unions do far more damage than good. They served there purpose at the turn of the century but are outmoded and obsolete.

 

My take;

 

The NFL should invest in training replacement refs and tell the union to piss off. I am tired of this leech mentality that just because you work a few years you are automatically entitled to being supported through retirement.

 

Any 401k match is more than generous for a $600/hr and 70 HOUR a YEAR part time job that a monkey could do with the right training.

 

 

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I didn't say top I said doing the same job for free. You chose to spin in inherent unintendend connotations.

 

Your exact words were "why the officials who are volunteers in many leagues around the world" and "just because they do something in their free time many do for free."

 

And you accuse me of "spin" and "unintended connotations?" If volunteer officials don't exist in pro sports, why did you conjure them up?

 

Golden parachute? Ya Most recently in bloomberg. People like Nardelli or Fiorina. Is that going to be a new check box during open enrollment? What in the world does that or severance have to do with pension entitlement? Ugh... Clueless people with dsl....

 

And now you start with the name calling ("clueless people"). What does severance have to do with pension entitlement? If I have to explain it to you maybe I'm better off letting you wallow in your own knowledge. Let me ask you this then: What does "Mario Williams held out for 20 million more in pension guarantees" have to do with the NFL officials?

 

I'd love to hear who people side with.... Assuming they get the whole picture.... Start a poll. I have watched unions do far more damage than good. They served there purpose at the turn of the century but are outmoded and obsolete.

 

You're free to start a poll… it's not that difficult for most people.

 

My take;

 

The NFL should invest in training replacement refs and tell the union to piss off. I am tired of this leech mentality that just because you work a few years you are automatically entitled to being supported through retirement.

 

Any 401k match is more than generous for a $600/hr and 70 HOUR a YEAR part time job that a monkey could do with the right training.

 

Leech mentality? It's called collective bargaining. Two sides negotiate. It appears that you're more angry about the business of business than the two parties who are actually involved are. This is a labor negotiation. You should try to leave your own bitterness and unhappiness out of the equation.

 

Your last sentence is probably your best work to date. However it's pretty hard taking away benefits that have already been granted in previous CBAs. For the record, I'm not against two-tier solutions to problems like this.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Leech mentality? It's called collective bargaining. Two sides negotiate. It appears that you're more angry about the business of business than the two parties who are actually involved are. This is a labor negotiation. You should try to leave your own bitterness and unhappiness out of the equation.

 

Your last sentence is probably your best work to date. However it's pretty hard taking away benefits that have already been granted in previous CBAs. For the record, I'm not against two-tier solutions to problems like this.

 

No anger or bitterness on this issues. I just don't think what the refs do is all that irreplaceable. The NFL failed to train an adequate replacements, but that is the clear and easy solution.

 

I do have some resentment towards the prior entitlement generation destroying the countrty with pension mentality, over consumption, materialism and irresponsible debt accumulation. The ref squabble is a microcosm of larger issues.

Edited September 28, 2012 by over 20 years of fanhood

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Well the lockout basically failed. The NFL's hard line approach didn't work. Their attempt to show that NFL officials grow on trees was disproven.

 

Thus the two sides were able to come to a fair agreement with both sides compromising… something that should have happened long ago.

 

Sometimes it takes one side (in this case the officials) having the leverage for a labor dispute to resolve.

 

And as I suggested, the new agreement is moving towards the establishment of a two-tier solution with regards to the future of the defined benefits.

[BiggieScooby]

 

Yeah, they're working just fine for New York State, aren't they? No issues there. No impact at all from decades of rampant union greed.

 

Look at the rest of my post jackass.