NoSaint Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Someone else brought Brad Smith into the argument earlier.. I was responding.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.. Oh.. so its not absurd for you to quote generalizations like .. sooo many other teams are doing this.. yet you can't name one.. because it's a total fabrication. Yet it's absurd for me to ask you to prove your point with actual facts or evidence. kicking out of the endzone regularly. yes, many teams are doing that. thats what i was replying to as your initial post was "ZOMG we shouldnt be kicking touchbacks, we should be tackling guys inside the 20 instead." my comments about many kickers not being as good as what we have stands. if each end up top 10 in what we ask them to do, that means 2/3 of the league isnt as good at atleast one of the job functions, and probably a decent overlap there not being as good at EITHER. thats the value in this. carrying 3 kickers today? probably not so much. id guess if any others it would be only a couple any given week. I dont key in on special teams around the league very much at all with regards to that, and im not going through each roster. i know it happens occasionally. the example i gave was when Hartley was struggling in New Orleans, and they wanted him long term they carried 3 kickers for the better part of a season (2010 i think - i just know as a local as i watch pretty much all their games). its not unheard of. currently they even have their punter doing kickoffs, as he can more reliably kick touchbacks (another option that teams use around the league). There are a good number of kickers that dont handle both halves of the job function as well as could be done with alternative arrangements. further many struggle, and are still on rosters. its not like theres a huge wealth of amazing kickers just waiting to be had. lindell is very well respected in fact, and i believe in the top 25 percentage wise in the history of the nfl, despite kicking his FGs in a TOUGH stadium. fact is that lindell isnt unmanageable with kickoffs, but it was a spot we could improve and will hopefully have more of an impact than whoever we would be dressing in that 46th slot to sit on the sideline unless someone gets injured. Edited September 12, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I went through rosters of 14 teams, those with cities starting with A-H. The Bills were the only one with two kicers on the roster. Someone else can pick up the search startingwith Indianapolis.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks for doing the work to back up your points. After reading your post, I feel a lot more comfortable with the decision to keep a kickoff specialist on the roster. Also, as you pointed out earlier, if Lindell goes down with an injury, Potter can take his place. And vice versa. no prob - its not a gimme choice, but i dont think its near as crazy as a lot of us think in our gut reactions. i know i had the same "reaaally?!?!" reaction on draft day. i think it goes with being used to teams doing what teams do and assuming its probably the right thing to do. the numbers make me feel ok though. we have a solid fg kicker, and i imagine with a fresh leg, not getting beat up covering kicks, etc... he should do even better in theory. add to that not having to worry about returns - im not in love with the idea, but im cool with it. we survived many a year only dressing 45, now that we can do 46 - we have the same roster, plus an improved kicking game. I went through rosters of 14 teams, those with cities starting with A-H. The Bills were the only one with two kicers on the roster. Someone else can pick up the search startingwith Indianapolis.... its very possible we are the only one with 3. the other solution teams use is their punter picking up kickoff duties to help out sometimes. its definitely abnormal, and i dont want anyone to think that im arguing tons of teams carry 3 - i was arguing tons of teams kick the touchbacks as often as possible - as not kicking touchbacks was very core to where this thread started. i will say i think at the end of the year, you will find very few single kickers with higher percentages in both categories, and thats the value. obviously it would be nice to have one of those guys, but they dont grow on trees... Edited September 12, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You herd it hear last Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 give the kid Lindell's job already...let him try'n get better as our season deteriorates...I guarantee he'll get plenty of opportunities to kick field goals, if this keeps up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Also, the "specialists" onside kick friggin blows. You know, I don't think this was discussed a lot because there was a lot of other garbage in that game. But how about that coaching decision to let the rookie try a critical onside kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 if you can eliminate covering kickoffs its a major plus in my opinion- wearing down over the season, injuries that occur not just the ball carrier, and no one is taking one all the way. NOW how do we eliminate punt returns - speaking of getting something off your chest- with 20 seconds or under and you receive the kickoff in the field of play McKelvin ! bring it out it's a chance to take it all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meark Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 I went through rosters of 14 teams, those with cities starting with A-H. The Bills were the only one with two kicers on the roster. Someone else can pick up the search startingwith Indianapolis.... I've already gone through them all.. Buffalo is the only team with a "kick off specialist". I was super pissed they took their time outs and kicked an onside kick with 6+ minutes left. Very bad decision.. The only way to win the game would have been to keep the time outs.. kick it deep and make them earn the TD.. we folded by giving them the ball on our side of the field with that much time left.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Living baltimore I'm pretty sure the Ravens were carrying three kickers during the end of the Stover era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 If it hasn't already been posted...here's what I found http://www.blogandtackle.net/2011/11/09/comparison-of-2011-and-2010-kickoffs-returns-after-nfl-week-9/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 If it hasn't already been posted...here's what I found http://www.blogandtackle.net/2011/11/09/comparison-of-2011-and-2010-kickoffs-returns-after-nfl-week-9/ The most tangible fact being that the average drive start is past the 20 - ie keeping it at the 20 and taking all the risk out isn't a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Exactly, and that's why I asked in another thread why, after being the only team in preseason to not allow a kick to be returned, our first kick was short of the end zone... The most tangible fact being that the average drive start is past the 20 - ie keeping it at the 20 and taking all the risk out isn't a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The idea, I believe, was that our defense would be so improved this year that pinning opposing teams on the 20 would win us the field position battle throughout the game. Unfortunately, our defense appears to be another in a long line of sick jokes played on Bills fans throughout the years... I'm fine with having a kickoff specialist although why not just make him the kicker and free up a roster spot and some cash to pay a skill position player. Yes, based on the evidence of a single game, the Bills Defence appears to be awfull. Let's order the bullets for the mass suicide right away. It is hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Bronson Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Game one he was the mvp. And after 11 years we gave up a punt return touchdown, I dont trust our special team punt or kick. And anyway if we get rid of him who the hell are we going to sign thats worthy for any of these skill positions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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