bbb Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Schopp on GR has been talking about this for a long time, and tweeted this article an hour or so ago. I saw the high school team mentioned on Real Sports last year. Easterbrook here adds in a timely (with our other thread) remark about Super Bowl XXV would not have come down to Norwood if Levy had not punted a few times.........What do you guys think?: http://espn.go.com/espn/playbook/story/_/id/8307736/tmq-praises-coach-punt-celebrates-innovative-mind-football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 From the article: "Consider that the Giants-versus-Bills Super Bowl in 1991 came down to a 47-yard field goal attempt on grass as the clock expired. When the kicker missed, he was blamed for the loss, though 47 yards on grass is 50/50 for the best place-kickers. Earlier in the game, Buffalo punted on fourth-and-1 from midfield and on fourth-and-2 from the Giants' 44. The Bills were the league's highest-scoring team that year, averaging 6.3 yards per offensive snap. Had Buffalo gone for it on those fourth-and-short situations, victory was likely. But had Buffalo gone for it and failed, coach Marv Levy would have been roasted with criticism. He did the expected, sent in the punting unit, lost the game -- and the blame went to someone else." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Thanks for pulling out the Bills portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Another idea to eliminate the punter.... stop them on 3rd down if the choose to "punt" the ball is placed 40 yards down from the spot of the ball...if that spot is the endzone then a touchback. Thus if you are inside the opponents 40 you will have to go for it on all 4th downs you choose not to try a FG. Eliminate the kickoff the same way...40 yards from the quickoff spot.and set kickoffs at the 35. A team could choose to do the onside kick. To add stategy...rewars kicks placed at the 40 yrd line are farther back worth 4 points instead of 3. The article is playing off the same statistical stuff that was talked about extensivly (and TMQ mentions it in his piece) when the Patriots went for on 4th down around their own 30 yd line. What are the probabilities of making it on 4th and short and what are the risks given field position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnychemo Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I'd rather see some type of formation rule for punt formations that would increase the chances of a blocked punt. Give punting a little more risk and you'll see more chances taken on 4th downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiterateStylish Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've always advocated for going for it on 4th down when: 1) There is 3 or less yards to go 2) You are past the opponents 40 yard line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Had Buffalo gone for it on those fourth-and-short situations, victory was likely. But had Buffalo gone for it and failed, coach Marv Levy would have been roasted with criticism. He did the expected, sent in the punting unit, lost the game -- and the blame went to someone else." There you have it. Coaches are trained to play it safe, even if the odds say otherwise, in the interest of job security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've always advocated for going for it on 4th down when: 1) There is 3 or less yards to go 2) You are past the opponents 40 yard line This I totally agree with. I don't see how Schopp, and other proponents of this think it can work when you deeper in your own territory. It works for this high school team - but does it work because of the strategy or does the team have overwhelming talent to begin with? There you have it. Coaches are trained to play it safe, even if the odds say otherwise, in the interest of job security. But, then Marv went for it when I was yelling kick the field goal - don't come away with no points - during the comeback game. I think it was 35-24 at that point and at least 4th and 5 from about the 20 and then Reich threw a TD to Andre. I still can't believe he went for it and still think the smart thing was not to. Glad it worked, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Cann't change history. Makes no difference with what if they had done this or that. That was a long long time ago. It was a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 That's not really the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 From the article: "Consider that the Giants-versus-Bills Super Bowl in 1991 came down to a 47-yard field goal attempt on grass as the clock expired. When the kicker missed, he was blamed for the loss, though 47 yards on grass is 50/50 for the best place-kickers. Earlier in the game, Buffalo punted on fourth-and-1 from midfield and on fourth-and-2 from the Giants' 44. The Bills were the league's highest-scoring team that year, averaging 6.3 yards per offensive snap. Had Buffalo gone for it on those fourth-and-short situations, victory was likely. But had Buffalo gone for it and failed, coach Marv Levy would have been roasted with criticism. He did the expected, sent in the punting unit, lost the game -- and the blame went to someone else." How about if we had simply tackled a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 This I totally agree with. I don't see how Schopp, and other proponents of this think it can work when you deeper in your own territory. It works for this high school team - but does it work because of the strategy or does the team have overwhelming talent to begin with? But, then Marv went for it when I was yelling kick the field goal - don't come away with no points - during the comeback game. I think it was 35-24 at that point and at least 4th and 5 from about the 20 and then Reich threw a TD to Andre. I still can't believe he went for it and still think the smart thing was not to. Glad it worked, though! I remember turning to my brother and making a motion to him with my fingers, saying we need to kick it ... We should have kicked it there ... I'm glad we didn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Me, too! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I'll take 50/50 odds any day. Good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I remember turning to my brother and making a motion to him with my fingers, saying we need to kick it ... We should have kicked it there ... I'm glad we didn't! Totally wrong. Bills down 11 and the 2-pt conversion was not yet in play. Kicking a FG meant two scores still needed -- same as if we don't make the 4th down. It was always the right call, and Marv is a smart guy. That doesn't change the fact he could/should have been more aggressive vs the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 But it wasn't even the fourth quarter. There may have even been a good amount of time left in the third. I was afraid that we get no points and the crazy train would stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Let go. Change one thing and the whole dynamic changes... and not necessarily favorably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatszel Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I still maintain it was a flaw on the officials Thurman on his run before the kick was out of bounds and the kept the clock running. Would have saved a time out and we would have had another play to run. Also If I recall correctly the placed it a yard or two behind where he actually went out of bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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