THIS is proof that coaching matters in the NFL

[Bufcomments]

Suspect coaches for the Bills in 2011 - Defensive staff: George Edwards, Bob Sanders, Giff Smith, and George Catavolos. Special Teams staff: Bruce Dehaven and Stan Kwan.

 

Let's just get over the whole "the Bills don't have talent" argument. We have a lot of talent on this team. But our coaches aren't getting the most out of these guys. Most prominently our defensive coaching staff, led by George Edwards. This has been beat to death, but let me validate this point.

 

Buffalo Bills Defense Rank & Coach at the time:

2008: 14th (Fewell)

2009: 16th (Fewell)

2010: 28th (Edwards)

2011: 28th (Edwards)

 

Here are some examples of teams that changed Defensive coaches, and the resulting change of Defensive Rank:

 

Cowboys:

2010: 31st (Pasqualoni)

2011: 12th (Ryan)

 

49ers:

2010: 16th (Manusky)

2011: 1st (Fangio)

 

Texans:

2010: 29th (Bush)

2011: 2nd (Phillips)

 

See the pattern there? They didn't completely overhaul the personnel to make their defense better. It was the leadership, philosophy, and defensive coaching style that made these teams better.

 

Now, the Bills can continue to circle the wagons with mediocre to terrible defenses by cheaping out on Defensive Coordinators. OR they can do their homework, and go out and hire a QUALITY defensive coach. And they might just have to spend a little money to bring a guy in. But if we can spend a few million a year on Brad Smith as a wildcat QB and part time WR, we better be able to spend some money on a quality defensive coordinator.

 

I wrote this out in another thread, but here are some candidates I think would be worth considering:

 

- Steve Spagnuolo (could likely be fired)

- Mike Nolan (the whole Miami staff could be gone soon)

- Keith Butler (likely the next in line in Pittsburgh once Lebeau is retired, but maybe Whaley can work some magic here)

- Jack Del Rio (good defensive coach, at least worth considering)

Good thought out post.

 

I would imagine that any decent DC would not have Kelsey and Johnson playing LB

Kelsey can rush the passer let him do it AT DE

Johnson should be a DT.

I think Nolan would be a great choice

 

also say the Bills have more talent to be this bad a D.

[ganesh]

But we added Wannastach to the fold.......what has he brought to the table defensively this season?

 

He is the ILB coach....What input does he have on this defense.

[benderbender]

It's very hard to argue the talent side when we are burned by a TE that didn't get me any fantasy points until Sunday

[San Jose Bills Fan]

He is the ILB coach....What input does he have on this defense.

He's also Assistant Head Coach and a long-time NFL Defensive Coordinator.

 

Wadya think they brought him in for?

 

To organize the canned food drive during the Holidays?

 

 

[bills7834]

Great post and nice homework. I think those arguments saying we don't have the talent that the teams you mentioned have are not good arguments.

 

I agree we need more talent on defense. The point the OP was making was how new DC's moved the defenses up in the standings. If we had a capable DC we would improve. These teams didn't draft or get a superior defensive play maker and yet they improved drastically.

 

I want to see the Bills get a real DC and that alone should make them better on defense. Try to add players in areas of obvious weakness and there will be even a larger improvement.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Not sure how much you know about other teams to be honest. I'm tired. I'm not gonna argue. You should watch more football and you'll know more about other teams good players: ie, bowman, Goldson, Rogers, McDonald, brooks, Ryans, manning, joseph, antonio smith, Jason Allen, Ratliff, Bradie smith, hatcher, spencer.

--P.S.: just because people aren't talking about a player, doesn't mean they aren't good.

I agree DCs make a BIIIIIIIG difference, but with our OLBs, we couldnt be successful, with any DC. We can be better, we can't be worse, but we wouldn't be a top 10 d with wade, fanzio or Ryan. No way. We need some OLBs badly.

Do you honestly think Ryan or Wade would start an athlete like Spencer Johnson at OLB and continue to do so month after month? I mean that smacks of a coaching staff that has a collective learning disability.

[BillsfaninFl]

Let's face it guys, this is one of those situations where "you get what you paid for."

 

The Bills organization will not pay for top dollar for General Managers or Head Coaches. Therefore, the assistant coaches end up being second eschelon also. They will not bring in high-priced free agents, justifying that by saying they will build through the draft. They do not pay for excellent talent evaluators (including scouts), so there is no one to help them draft the right people.

 

Therefore, how can we tell if coaches or players are any good? The deck is stacked against them.

Edited December 13, 2011 by BillsfaninFl

[JPS]

This is an excellent post. Finally something worth reading. My only 2 cents is that people need to just stop the criticism of the cornerbacks. They are the least of our worries and the last place the Bills should invest any draft picks or FA dollars. How anyone could judge any cornerback behind that front seven is beyond me. McKelvin showed showed great promise before this genius coaching staff got ahold of him. Now, he's marginal in coverage and he sucks at kickoff returns. He's the same guy.

 

The problem, fellas and fellerinas, IS COACHING!

Edited December 13, 2011 by JPS

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Do you honestly think Ryan or Wade would start an athlete like Spencer Johnson at OLB and continue to do so month after month? I mean that smacks of a coaching staff that has a collective learning disability.

So now it's the coaches and not the players?

 

So Ryan or Wade would start Batten or Moats instead of Spencer Johnson and our defense would be better? Maybe.

 

I can't help but think that it's both.

 

What's up for debate, AFAIC, is how much of it is on the coaches and how much on the lack of talent.

Edited December 13, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Sisyphean Bills]

So now it's the coaches and not the players?

 

So Ryan or Wade would start Batten or Moats instead of Spencer Johnson and our defense would be better? Maybe.

 

I can't help but think that it's both.

 

What's up for debate, AFAIC, is how much of it is on the coaches and how much on the lack of talent.

You really need to read what I wrote and slow down a bit when assuming I wrote whatever thoughts are in your head.

 

Obviously, it is both. The players play the game. Obviously, when the defense can be scored upon at will, it isn't playing well. Nor, is it being coached well. There are clearly situations where players are being asked to do things that accentuate their limitations. Blaming the player in those cases is misguided and perhaps even trying to steer the discussion away from an issue that is perceived as embarrassing. "This team is being built the right way" was a popular saying before any returns were in, but after 2 seasons the buyer's remorse is setting in with the fan base -- if the posts on this board are any indication, that is.

[Webster Guy]

Is Wade Philips the great DC of all time, who didn't make it as a head coach?....I can't believe they went from #29 to #2 without Mario Williams.

If you look at history and use rankings as your guide, there is nobody close to what Wade Philips has done in the NFL defensively in the last 15 years.

 

Everywhere the guy goes he fixes the defense quickly and makes them respectable from opening day.

 

As far as our current defense goes, it will be interesting to see this debate unfold about us having enough talent defensively but its just poor coaching. I'm not as sold as a lot of you seem, I think we don't have any pass rushing talent at all and schemes only go so far.

 

My draft prediction is DE in round 1 (not a hybrid tweener but a 270 lb guy like Coples or Ingram) and then CB in round 2.

 

Most of these pressing defenses seem to play a cover 1 and trust their corners in man coverage. Which means you can send 5 pass rushers if you want. When you show a five man front and the QB has no idea how many you're going to send, combined with a noisy home crowd, you pretty much eliminate the ability to audible.

 

Gotta have the coverage guys though or you are toast. Aaron Williams needs to have a big year next season and we need another new guy to groom for the #2. Maybe it's Rogers, he reminds me of Greer his first year. Picking solid NFL corners from the college pool is tough business though. (McKelvin 1st round, Terrence 4th round...hmmmm)

Edited December 13, 2011 by Webster Guy

[Got_Wood]

Not sure how much you know about other teams to be honest. I'm tired. I'm not gonna argue. You should watch more football and you'll know more about other teams good players: ie, bowman, Goldson, Rogers, McDonald, brooks, Ryans, manning, joseph, antonio smith, Jason Allen, Ratliff, Bradie smith, hatcher, spencer.

--P.S.: just because people aren't talking about a player, doesn't mean they aren't good.

I agree DCs make a BIIIIIIIG difference, but with our OLBs, we couldnt be successful, with any DC. We can be better, we can't be worse, but we wouldn't be a top 10 d with wade, fanzio or Ryan. No way. We need some OLBs badly.

 

I watch a hell of a lot of football. Half the guys you listed are average players that have been put in a position to succeed. Bowman is a second year player that didn't do anything last season. Goldson was a 4th round pick that became a decent but inconsistent player. Carlos Rogers is decent, but having his best year by far in San Fran. I could go all day here. Most of the guys you listed aren't stars. They are productive in the system they play in. And I believe guys like Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus, Nick Barnett, Kelvin Sheppard, Jairus Byrd, Drayton Florence, and Aaron Williams can all be very good players in the right system. Even Kelsay could give us the numbers that Anthony Spencer gives the Cowboys at 4-3 DE.

 

Yes, we're lacking OLB's. But give us a damn good coach, and these players we've got will be in a better position to succeed.

[The Big Cat]

I watch a hell of a lot of football. Half the guys you listed are average players that have been put in a position to succeed. Bowman is a second year player that didn't do anything last season. Goldson was a 4th round pick that became a decent but inconsistent player. Carlos Rogers is decent, but having his best year by far in San Fran. I could go all day here. Most of the guys you listed aren't stars. They are productive in the system they play in. And I believe guys like Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus, Nick Barnett, Kelvin Sheppard, Jairus Byrd, Drayton Florence, and Aaron Williams can all be very good players in the right system. Even Kelsay could give us the numbers that Anthony Spencer gives the Cowboys at 4-3 DE.

 

Yes, we're lacking OLB's. But give us a damn good coach, and these players we've got will be in a better position to succeed.

 

So who's job is it to "find" this coach?

 

Whaley's?

[Dopey]

It's very hard to argue the talent side when we are burned by a TE that didn't get me any fantasy points until Sunday

 

 

 

Do you mean the future Hall of Famer who is now healthy and would do that to just about anyone when healthy?!?! So you picked him and it didn't work out too well?!?!? Some talent evaluator you are. Sounds familiar, huh? The Bills staff is not the only one who gets burned by injuries?!