papazoid Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 it's official.... Appeals court restores NFL lockout http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6451701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 NFL officially reinstates lockout. It only seems fitting in this insane offseason that this announcement would be made after 11 p.m. ET after day two of the NFL Draft. The league can’t let fans enjoy even one weekend. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/29/nfl-officially-reinstates-lockout/ One judge wasn’t happy with temporary stay http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/30/one-judge-not-happy-with-temporary-stay/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 No real surprise ... though this probably isn't good foreshadowing for the Players. Or, it means nothing at all. Either way, it's just further proof of how poorly both sides have handled this issue. That they've let it spiral this far out of control is a testament to the stupidy of greed and arrogance. This news has darkened what should have been a very bright weekend for the League and more importantly its fans. Bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 No real surprise ... though this probably isn't good foreshadowing for the Players. Or, it means nothing at all. Either way, it's just further proof of how poorly both sides have handled this issue. That they've let it spiral this far out of control is a testament to the stupidy of greed and arrogance. This news has darkened what should have been a very bright weekend for the League and more importantly its fans. Bummer. What is even more sad to me is that all of the money that is now going to lawyers could have been used to help retired players in need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Most importantly in the short term, Gans said that the same three judges who handled the NFL’s motion for a temporary stay will handle the motion for a full stay until the appeal is resolved. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/02/the-same-judges-will-handle-the-motion-for-a-stay/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) NFL's Reply in Support of Motion to Stay (in case any of you are interested) Edited May 2, 2011 by Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) But the players still have an ace up their sleeve. His name is Judge David Doty. Doty has to know that if he allows the owners to have even limited access to the $4 billion lockout fund, the players have no chance of standing up to the owners in the short run. They simply lack the funds to withstand a season without paychecks. However if Doty gives the players what they were seeking in damages -- which is as much as $2.8 billion ($707 million in compensatory damages, plus up to three times that in exemplary/punitive damages) -- it could sustain the players if there were no football in 2011. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jim_trotter/05/16/nfl.lockout.labor.talks/index.html#ixzz1MaG4V4Jt Edited May 17, 2011 by papazoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 meet Judge Nelson: Susan Richard Nelson thought her future was going to be in music. An accomplished cellist, she performed with several orchestras in Buffalo as a young woman. As it turned out, the Amherst native had a different calling...... http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article444822.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 MINNEAPOLIS -- As the labor battle between NFL owners and players moved from the bargaining table to the courtroom, judges at each stop have urged both sides to reach an agreement before they have to issue significant rulings. The latest nudge in that direction came on Monday from U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson, who scheduled a hearing on the owners' motion to dismiss an antitrust lawsuit from a group of players for Sept. 12. Coincidentally or not, Sept. 12 is four days after the regular season is set to open in Green Bay, and one day after the first Sunday of games for the 2011 season. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6632662 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 MINNEAPOLIS -- As the labor battle between NFL owners and players moved from the bargaining table to the courtroom, judges at each stop have urged both sides to reach an agreement before they have to issue significant rulings. The latest nudge in that direction came on Monday from U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson, who scheduled a hearing on the owners' motion to dismiss an antitrust lawsuit from a group of players for Sept. 12. Coincidentally or not, Sept. 12 is four days after the regular season is set to open in Green Bay, and one day after the first Sunday of games for the 2011 season. http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=6632662 I believe that date is also one day after the 6 month anniversary of the decertification. During oral argument last Friday in the Eighth Circuit, one of the judges kept harping on that date when arguing with Paul Clement, the NFL's atty because in the old CBA the league had agreed that the non-statutory exemption from the anti-trust laws would no longer be available 6 months after decertification. One of the weaknesses of the league's argument is that if you accept their view as to what constitutes a "labor dispute", the anti-trust exemption would be eternal, utterly without end. Clement agreed that the exemption could not be endless, that at some point it had to end. Thus, all agree that the exemption will end and the only question is when? That's when the old CBA came up and the 6 month period agreed to back then. I have a feeling that the dissenting judge on the 8th Circuit is going to try and get the other two judges to at least agree to including language that would strongly hint that the injunction, though presently not valid, would become so in September. That would allow the league to continue to try to leverage the lockout in to a reasonable settlement but give the union leverage in negotiations by essentially setting a deadline on the lockout. Both sides then would have a strong incentive to get this done sooner rather than later. The league would want a deal before the lockout is enjoined and the players would want a deal done before they start missing camp and their September paychecks. If the two judges driving the bus won't change their minds on the injunction and won't at least hint at the lockout having a time limit that is less than a whole season long, we could be in trouble. At that point, if the players can go a year without pay, they will. If they can't, then fine, a deal gets done but that is a coin flip and losing that flip means no football until September 2012. Not good. I think the players would, at the very least, wait to see what Judge Doty does with the hearing on damages in the other case still pending on what to do with that $4 billion in TV money. The outcome of that hearing might decide whether the players wait out the lockout which, sooner or later will surely end, the question, again, is simply: when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 The NFL and players resumed what were described as "very serious talks" on Tuesday, according to sources, in an attempt to build off last week's secret negotiations in suburban Chicago, and work toward a resolution to end the three-month-old lockout. The exact location of this set of talks remains unknown, though NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora reports they are taking place in the New York area. The NFL declined comment on the matter. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820375bc/article/league-players-meet-voluntarily-for-second-straight-week?module=HP_headlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 they just released a statement saying the talks are continuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) I believe that date is also one day after the 6 month anniversary of the decertification. During oral argument last Friday in the Eighth Circuit, one of the judges kept harping on that date when arguing with Paul Clement, the NFL's atty because in the old CBA the league had agreed that the non-statutory exemption from the anti-trust laws would no longer be available 6 months after decertification. One of the weaknesses of the league's argument is that if you accept their view as to what constitutes a "labor dispute", the anti-trust exemption would be eternal, utterly without end. Clement agreed that the exemption could not be endless, that at some point it had to end. Thus, all agree that the exemption will end and the only question is when? That's when the old CBA came up and the 6 month period agreed to back then. I have a feeling that the dissenting judge on the 8th Circuit is going to try and get the other two judges to at least agree to including language that would strongly hint that the injunction, though presently not valid, would become so in September. That would allow the league to continue to try to leverage the lockout in to a reasonable settlement but give the union leverage in negotiations by essentially setting a deadline on the lockout. Both sides then would have a strong incentive to get this done sooner rather than later. The league would want a deal before the lockout is enjoined and the players would want a deal done before they start missing camp and their September paychecks. If the two judges driving the bus won't change their minds on the injunction and won't at least hint at the lockout having a time limit that is less than a whole season long, we could be in trouble. At that point, if the players can go a year without pay, they will. If they can't, then fine, a deal gets done but that is a coin flip and losing that flip means no football until September 2012. Not good. I think the players would, at the very least, wait to see what Judge Doty does with the hearing on damages in the other case still pending on what to do with that $4 billion in TV money. The outcome of that hearing might decide whether the players wait out the lockout which, sooner or later will surely end, the question, again, is simply: when? Interesting analysis and a well-reasoned attempt to make sense of the particular timing chosen by the MN trial judge for setting a hearing date on an NFL motion to dismiss the players' antitrust complaint. While the trial judge has discretion to change the otherwise applicable briefing schedule for that type of motion, it IS interesting that she picked a hearing date more than 90 days in the future. Because a motion to dismiss is a potentially "dispositive" motion, MN local court rule 7.1(b)(1) would have allowed Judge Nelson to set the hearing date as early as 42 days after the date the motion will be filed: http://www.mnd.uscourts.gov/local_rules/LR-7-1.html So why did Judge Nelson set the hearing date so far out into the future? Your explanation is entirely plausible, and may be right. It would be interesting to know if similar motions in other cases were being set for hearings that far in the future because the court simply has a crowded schedule, or if this case got unusual scheduling treatment. Hard to tell which it is from what I've read so far, but unusual treatment seems more likely. I think there might be a potential downside for the players, however, resulting from the delayed hearing date on any NFL motion to dismiss the antitrust complaint. There is at least some possibility that the forthcoming 8th Circuit opinion will accept the NFL's argument that the pending unfair labor practice charge before the NLRB is a threshold issue that should be decided before things go forward in Judge Nelson's court. In short, if the union's March 11, 2011 decertification was a sham, then the 6 month clock you mention never really started. If things play out that way in the 8th Circuit and the NLRB, the players could potentially have their entire antitrust complaint dismissed when Judge Nelson eventually considers the NFL's motion. I'm not suggesting that this outcome is likely - - just that it's also possible. I view that as a good thing. The players have an incentive to negotiate a global settlement, rather than awaiting future court decisions, because the scenario I outlined above could totally destroy the players' negotiating leverage. Likewise, the NFL also has an incentive to negotiate a global settlement, rather than awaiting future court decisions, because the scenario you outlined could decimate the owners' negotiating leverage. Let's hope that both sides have a healthy fear of unknown, and therefore potentially detrimental future court decisions, and negotiate for a known outcome now. An effective mediator will hammer on those fears to try to get both sides to find middle ground. =========================================================================== A few unrelated points: 1. I agree with your opinion (expressed elsewhere) that discovery of NFL finances will tend to move negotiations along. Do you know if formal discovery has been allowed to start in the trial court? IIRC, there was a dispute about when formal discovery should start, but I don't know if or how it was resolved. 2. The sooner one side or the other incurs significant financial hardship, the sooner a new CBA will get signed. I hope neither side gets access to the disputed TV contract money any time soon. 3. The following article seems to be a relatively neutral evaluation of the strengths and weaknesses of each side's positions just prior to the 8th Circuit oral argument: http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/PubArticleDBR.jsp?id=1202495912122&hbxlogin=1 4. Here's a link to the NLRB's own flow chart (the first one) showing how an unfair labor practice charge is decided by the NLRB. I don't know the typical time frame for getting from (a) filing the initial charge to (b) getting an NLRB decision: http://www.nlrb.gov/nlrb-process Edited June 9, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 they just released a statement saying the talks are continuing. until a deal is done, this "talking" seems more like lip service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Hearing date on NFL's motion to dismiss the players' antitrust complaint has been moved up two weeks - - - it will now be heard on August 29, 2011. Maybe Judge Nelson is giving herself 2 weeks to write the opinion so that she can actually issue it 6 months and 1 day after the suit was filed? - - Hard to know why she decided to move the hearing date up two weeks. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/NFL-judge-moves-lawsuit-hearing-to-August-29-060711 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 The NFL has asked owners to keep their schedules open next week, when the league holds meetings in Chicago, NFL Network reporter Albert Breer confirmed Tuesday. The owners are scheduled to meet June 21, and the memo from the league asked for flexibility by the owners in case the meeting spills into Tuesday night or Wednesday. That has fueled speculation that perhaps the league and the NFL Players Association are making progress in their negotiations toward an agreement that would end the three-month-old lockout. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82050114/article/sign-of-progress-owners-asked-to-clear-schedules-next-week?module=HP_headlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 MINNEAPOLIS -- While NFL owners and players appear to be inching toward a resolution of the league's lengthy lockout, a group of retired players is clamoring to be more involved in the discussions. The group filed a class-action complaint against the owners and current players in federal court Monday, saying they have been excluded from the mediation sessions taking place in an attempt to end the lockout. Named plaintiffs including Hall of Famers Carl Eller, Franco Harris, Marcus Allen and Paul Krause are asking U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson to put a halt to the mediation she ordered and declare that the current players cannot negotiate on behalf of those who are retired. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8209c937/article/retired-players-ask-court-to-involve-them-more-in-labor-talks?module=HP_headlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 NEW YORK (AP) — The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday threw out a judge's order lifting the NFL lockout, handing the league a victory as players and owners returned to negotiations. The court vacated an April 25 decision by U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson that the lockout should be lifted because players were suffering irreparable harm. The appeals court had already put that order on hold and said in its ruling that Nelson ignored federal law in reaching her decision. http://news.yahoo.com/appeals-court-backs-lockout-tosses-judges-ruling-144417645.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Flowers Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Looks like she booted that kick wide LEFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninFl Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 So much for the statement that Judge Nelson will determine the fate of the NFL. Talk about pipe dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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