Is it racist to say

[The Senator]

Is it racist to say that white players are better Quarterbacks in the NFL?

It would be, if someone actually believed it to be true based purely on skin pigmentation.

 

Here are some more interesting 'myths' regarding race and how it affects athleticism...

 

White Men Can't Jump

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

What does any of that have to do with the color of his skin?

[/quot

 

How about putting it this way.. Cam Newton = JaMarcus Russell.. That's just how I see it, a train wreck waiting to happen..

[metzelaars_lives]

that white players are better Quarterbacks in the NFL?

 

According to Wiki Answers there are 3,867 white athletes vs 11,978 black athletes in the NFL. It's obvious that it's a difficult thing for a white player to compete with black players in the NFL. And it's not just at skill positions. It appears that they only excel at QB play, Kicking, and Punting. No one knows why that is and you could debate that topic all day long. Could it be that white athletes gravitate towards the QB position based on they might enjoy the studying part of the position more than the black athlete? And the white athlete recognizes that as an edge or a way to compete with their more athletic black counterparts. Is that a racist thing to say? I don't think so.

 

Why can't we just talk about the "elephant in the room"? If anyone saw Cam Newton in his under armour at the combine, and you don't think he's the most physically gifted QB in the draft you're crazy. But the questions about him are centered around does he have the mind of an NFL QB. Can he lead a group of Men. Is he as fierce in the film room as he is in the weight room. Does he ENJOY that part of the position?

 

I honestly am not posting this to incite hateful debate, but honest debate.

 

11,978 + 3,867 = 15,845 / 32 = 495.16 There are not 495 players on each team. Am I missing something?

[ETD66SS]

For the people who keep saying "what does skin color have to do with anything?"

 

It's not JUST skin color. I think there are enough documented biological/genetic/cultural differences between white men, white women, black men & black women physically & mentally, which can explain many roles in which individuals play a part of, not just athletics or the NFL in particular.

 

My my, the USA is so PC it's embarrassing reading such discussions.

 

This country is the same way concerning boobies & nipples. How sad...

 

I don't watch college football, so I do not track possible draft picks. All I have to go by with Cam Newton is what I have read/heard on the net. It does not sound like he was raised very well by his father in particular, he seems to lack respect in certain areas. (cheating & stealing). He does not sound like a mental student of the game, which is what I personally want in a QB. Apparently he has not had the requirement put upon him to be a pocket passer, and looks to run after one read (so I have heard). I dislike all of those qualities. I also don't like the fact that most black QB's who are drafted to be franchise QB's fail miserably. (So do most whites, but more white QB's hit it big, become SB wining franchise QB's).

 

With my completely non-professional NFL scouting abilities as simply a fan, I'd stay away from Cam Newton. He has character issues, he is not a student of the game, and I don't like the track record of black running QB's as SB winning franchise QB's.

 

I don't believe anything I have said is racist.

[ieatcrayonz]

I don't think one should put much stock in any source that overestimates the number of players in the NFL by roughly 14,000 players or over 700%.

It is actually over 15,000 if you add the numbers. For rounding let's call it 15k even.

 

There are 32 teams. 15,000/32 = 468.75 players per team which seems ridiculous. Then again you are only thinking of during the season. You have to consider the draft, UDFA, training camp, and should also include people who wish they were selected but were not. As you can clearly see the numbers begin to make sense. I'm not agreeing with the rest of this thread's premise but the number of players seems right.

Edited March 7, 2011 by ieatcrayonz

[Rob's House]

I firmly believe all the black kids that grew up in my neighborhood and went to high school with me were the best athletes due to the different culture in which they were brought up. They did more pull ups, won the sprints, and could grab the rim before they hit 6' because the coach subconsciously associated them with the more athletic roles. We did have a couple of white guys who could hang with them and there was one black guy who wasn't that athletic so I concluded that since there were a select few exceptions to the rule, the overwhelming disproportionality was mere coincidence.

[BuffaloATL]

Could it be that white athletes gravitate towards the QB position based on they might enjoy the studying part of the position more than the black athlete?

 

While there are no doubt some inherent physical tools that would allow certain kinds of people to be better than others at certain positions, your statement about whites enjoying studying more than blacks is indeed racist.

[ETD66SS]

While there are no doubt some inherent physical tools that would allow certain kinds of people to be better than others at certain positions, your statement about whites enjoying studying more than blacks is indeed racist.

 

LOL, really?

 

I thought it was part of black culture to denegrate those who wish to study or to get a part time job while in school? Maybe I have been misinformed. I do believe I was watching an NBC special with a bunch of experts on the issues however. Maybe they were all blowing smoke.

[BuffaloATL]

LOL, really?

 

I thought it was part of black culture to denegrate those who wish to study or to get a part time job while in school? Maybe I have been misinformed. I do believe I was watching an NBC special with a bunch of experts on the issues however. Maybe they were all blowing smoke.

 

Misinformed, I guess. While there are no doubt hurdles for some, not every single athlete grows up in the hood and in an environment that doesn't allow them to educate themselves. There are plenty of very smart black athletes AND there have been some very dumb white players. I just don't think anyone can make blanket statements about the correlation between skin color and desire to study.

Edited March 7, 2011 by BuffaloATL

[washingtongarry]

The person who sets the course of a player development is usually his high school coach. Given the limited number of quailty players he may have to choose from he puts them in a position that can best help his team.Those with speed and quickness are put into positons where they can best use their gifts. Those who don't possess speed and quickness must come up with another asset to get on the field.That other asset is throwing. High school offenses' are pretty simple and an elite arm will get you into college.It is in college where Qb's are taught how to read defenses and process information. It is at the college level where the elite few will exhibit the skills to be a professional Qb. On the other hand speed and quickness being the primary assets that best translates to all levels of football, those who possess it advance thru the various level of the game with greater ease. So lets assume for what ever reason there are greater numbers of whites being funneled into the position of Qb in highschool it stands to reason there will be more white Qbs in the pros.As far as IQ is concerned, comments about tests scores as predictors of NFL success. They are completely off base.There is such a thing as football IQ and it has relatively little to with standard IQ tests.If that were not the case all the starting Qb's in the NFL would come from the Ivy league and there would be no Jim Kelly's,Joe Nanmath's, Johnny Unitas's and Terry Bradshaw's.Done of whom are exactly intellectual giants.

[Rob's House]

Misinformed, I guess. While there are no doubt hurdles for some, not every single athlete grows up in the hood and in an environment that doesn't allow them to educate themselves. There are plenty of very smart black athlete AND there has been some very dumb white players.

So are you saying that there aren't huge segments of the black population where this culture is pervasive or are you taking the line that if it doesn't apply 100% of the time it's completely and totally irrelevant?

[ieatcrayonz]

LOL, really?

 

I thought it was part of black culture to denegrate those who wish to study or to get a part time job while in school? Maybe I have been misinformed. I do believe I was watching an NBC special with a bunch of experts on the issues however. Maybe they were all blowing smoke.

Well if was on NBC it must be true.

[Mango]

that white players are better Quarterbacks in the NFL?

 

According to Wiki Answers there are 3,867 white athletes vs 11,978 black athletes in the NFL. It's obvious that it's a difficult thing for a white player to compete with black players in the NFL. And it's not just at skill positions. It appears that they only excel at QB play, Kicking, and Punting. No one knows why that is and you could debate that topic all day long. Could it be that white athletes gravitate towards the QB position based on they might enjoy the studying part of the position more than the black athlete? And the white athlete recognizes that as an edge or a way to compete with their more athletic black counterparts. Is that a racist thing to say? I don't think so.

 

Why can't we just talk about the "elephant in the room"? If anyone saw Cam Newton in his under armour at the combine, and you don't think he's the most physically gifted QB in the draft you're crazy. But the questions about him are centered around does he have the mind of an NFL QB. Can he lead a group of Men. Is he as fierce in the film room as he is in the weight room. Does he ENJOY that part of the position?

 

I honestly am not posting this to incite hateful debate, but honest debate.

 

That's a cop out. I'm not saying it should be, but it is. I think there is a concern about black QB's love of the film room and I think that's why white athletes tend to excel at the QB position in the NFL. Again I don't mean that in a condescending way. There's a huge disparity in the amount of black vs white athletes in the NFL, except at the QB - punting - and kicking positions. My theory is that black athletes don't like to punt and kick from an enjoying stand point, and a possible reason for the QB situation is the amount of film room required. Could it be that the black athlete just doesn't enjoy that as much and the white athlete takes advantage of that and uses it to get into the NFL?

 

 

You are missing the point. You have to go back further. By looking at only NFL results you are lacking where those results. The NFL results are a results of all the steps to get there. I think the problem becomes, why arent more black people playing QB in general. IE why are white kids targeted in HS so play QB rather than black kids. It is not like kids go through a stringent selection process to play a possision, they are merely benifactors in opportunity given to them. Also the next step after that is, I know Highschool football is all about putting your biggest playmaker in the largest role possible, just like Naaman at St. Joes. The question now becomes, well out of the black HS QB's, how many of them are not allowed to play QB. Why was Naaman not considered to play QB anywhere in the country and was strictly a DB prospect, and how often does that happen.

 

I could ramble on about all the specific examples and steps, but the point being that thoughts similar to yours are either consciencly or sub consciecly making these decisions. Without more opportunity to succeed, there is only data influenced by generations of racism to debate from. So currently, no is it racist to say that currently only white QBs seem to find elite success in the NFL, those are the facts, it would be racist to venture further to say that only QB's have the tools to ever be successful. I would say that the reason you don't see so many successful black QB's in the NFL is racism

[BuffaloATL]

So are you saying that there aren't huge segments of the black population where this culture is pervasive or are you taking the line that if it doesn't apply 100% of the time it's completely and totally irrelevant?

 

No doubt there are large segments where this is an issue. There are also plenty of white athletes that are raised in similar situations.

 

No doubt that whites, in general, have better access to education which in turn can translate into more of them playing a position that requires a higher IQ than others, along with the other poster that commented on the better athletes getting put at other positions in high school because of the needs/demands of the positions at that time. But my initial comments surround making a blanket statement about how much black athletes enjoy studying. Saying just because someone is black means they don't like to study is racist.

Edited March 7, 2011 by BuffaloATL

[Mango]

The person who sets the course of a player development is usually his high school coach. Given the limited number of quailty players he may have to choose from he puts them in a position that can best help his team.Those with speed and quickness are put into positons where they can best use their gifts. Those who don't possess speed and quickness must come up with another asset to get on the field.That other asset is throwing. High school offenses' are pretty simple and an elite arm will get you into college.It is in college where Qb's are taught how to read defenses and process information. It is at the college level where the elite few will exhibit the skills to be a professional Qb. On the other hand speed and quickness being the primary assets that best translates to all levels of football, those who possess it advance thru the various level of the game with greater ease. So lets assume for what ever reason there are greater numbers of whites being funneled into the position of Qb in highschool it stands to reason there will be more white Qbs in the pros.As far as IQ is concerned, comments about tests scores as predictors of NFL success. They are completely off base.There is such a thing as football IQ and it has relatively little to with standard IQ tests.If that were not the case all the starting Qb's in the NFL would come from the Ivy league and there would be no Jim Kelly's,Joe Nanmath's, Johnny Unitas's and Terry Bradshaw's.Done of whom are exactly intellectual giants.

 

part of the problem is in college since it is common for alot of players to have been HS QBs because they are their teams best athletes

[NaPolian8693]

This is a really simple debate.

 

It is NOT racist to say there are more white quarterbacks. That is a simple fact.

 

it is NOT racist to say that genetics play a part. Ethopians are good marathoners and Jamaicans are good sprinters, the Olympics show that over long periods of time.

 

In the same vein, it is not racist to say black people are more likely to have curly hair, or white people are more likely to have blue eyes. That's just reality.

 

However, what IS racist is to imply that a black guy is NOT CAPABLE of being a quarterback, or that a white guy is NOT CAPABLE of playing RB. Vick is a good player, and so is Woodhead/Hillis.

 

What IS racist is to lump black people all together and say they are too dumb. There are plenty of blacks out there with world-class minds that are leading researchers and such. There are a lot of socio-economic issues that lead to many blacks having low education levels, which fuels this perception.

 

( Reading defenses is not even directly equated with deep thinking capability or eloquence at a press conference, either, btw. I mean, look at Breet Favre. He's not an idiot, but he's no rocket scientist. Dan Marino had a horribly low Wonderlic score. It's more about quick recognition - which is still a brain related issue, it's just not the same as the ability to do algebra. )

 

What IS racist is to say that all black people are too lazy to work hard enough to be a QB. There are some lazy black people, and some hard working black people. Same goes for every ethnicity.

 

On the whole I think we will continue to see more white QBs than black, and more black RBs than white in the NFL - but that doesn't mean there won't be many many successful players that deviate from traditional racial assumptions.

[BuffaloATL]

This is a really simple debate.

 

It is NOT racist to say there are more white quarterbacks. That is a simple fact.

 

it is NOT racist to say that genetics play a part. Ethopians are good marathoners and Jamaicans are good sprinters, the Olympics show that over long periods of time.

 

In the same vein, it is not racist to say black people are more likely to have curly hair, or white people are more likely to have blue eyes. That's just reality.

 

However, what IS racist is to imply that a black guy is NOT CAPABLE of being a quarterback, or that a white guy is NOT CAPABLE of playing RB. Vick is a good player, and so is Woodhead/Hillis.

 

What IS racist is to lump black people all together and say they are too dumb. There are plenty of blacks out there with world-class minds that are leading researchers and such. There are a lot of socio-economic issues that lead to many blacks having low education levels, which fuels this perception.

 

( Reading defenses is not even directly equated with deep thinking capability or eloquence at a press conference, either, btw. I mean, look at Breet Favre. He's not an idiot, but he's no rocket scientist. Dan Marino had a horribly low Wonderlic score. It's more about quick recognition - which is still a brain related issue, it's just not the same as the ability to do algebra. )

 

What IS racist is to say that all black people are too lazy to work hard enough to be a QB. There are some lazy black people, and some hard working black people. Same goes for every ethnicity.

 

On the whole I think we will continue to see more white QBs than black, and more black RBs than white in the NFL - but that doesn't mean there won't be many many successful players that deviate from traditional racial assumptions.

 

This. You said it better than I did (note to self: no more replying via Andriod phone while at stoplights).

[ETD66SS]

It's on Cam Newton himself to prove he has the study part of it down.

 

Has he done this?

 

I'm fine with not lumping all black QB's together, but if I'm not mistaken he's not proven to be a student of the game/position like Luck has shown. Nor has he or his father shown good character. Stealing & cheating, and trying to sell your son's athletic abilities for cash...

 

This particular black QB has a lot of wrongs to right already, and he hasn't even been drafted yet.

 

No thanks IMO.

 

If Andrew Luck was black, I'd want him as a QB in a heartbeat.

 

There is no denying, not many black QB's if any have proven themselves in the NFL as legitimate franchise SB winning QB's. And it's not due to lack of athletic ability, usually they can run faster, throw farther than their white counterparts.

 

What's the problem then?

 

I assume it's the white coaches & owners' faults?

Edited March 7, 2011 by ETD66SS

[akm0404]

Yes, many folks of African or Pacific Island descent are, on average, more physically gifted than the average Caucasian of European descent.

 

This isn't racist, it is merely an evolutionary fact. Caucasians of European descent tend to be more genetically distant from those in their ancestry that based their survival on physical traits. Count the number of generations that a population has been removed from natural selection based on physical traits, and you'll see why, currently, these groups of people tend to excel in athletics. As the world changes and modernizes, even these more remote areas will shift their evolutionary focus, and over time, these performance gaps will be trivialized (over periods of a hundred years or more).

 

But, for now, they are very real. In America, persons of African descent are gaining traction across the athletic landscape. Heck, only 50 or 60 years ago, black athletes were a rarity in professional sports. To say that the NFL quarterback is going to be the "one last" athletic position that black athletes will not dominate is foolish. In golf, swimming, hockey, lacrosse, etc. the numbers of black participants is increasing much more quickly than their evolutionary edge will continue to subside. If you think that the NFL will not feature predominantly black quarterbacks in a matter or another generation, I think you are foolish.

 

Much as their athletic advantage (again, speaking in terms of population averages) is an inherent trait governed by evolutionary science, the notion of the black athlete's intellectual disadvantage is also real, just not in the same way. Due to socio-economic factors, many black Americans do experience roadblocks that keep them from achieving the same level of intellectual success that their white counterparts enjoy. This has forged a culture that values other traits more highly, and is counter-productive to the intellectual success of their population. But make no mistake, this gap is shrinking and will continue to shrink at a MUCH faster rate than the evolutionary gap in physical performance.

 

Executive Summary: Get used to people of African or Pacific Island descent dominating all sports for a long time to come, as their access to high-level athletic training and better educational opportunities out-paces the reduction of their evolutionary "edge" as the world continues to modernize. This includes NFL quarterbacks, kickers, and punters - Within the next 20 years I'd expect these positions to see the same relative level of racial composition.

[NaPolian8693]

There is no denying, not many black QB's if any have proven themselves in the NFL as legitimate franchise SB winning QB's. And it's not due to lack of athletic ability, usually they can run faster, throw farther than their white counterparts.

 

What's the problem then?

 

I assume it's the white coaches & owners' faults?

 

You were making some fair arguments until you got to the bolded part. Saying that makes you come across as a hateful white person. I don't know if this was your intention, but you should know how it sounds to others.

 

If you want a real answer, first of all black QBs are only recently on a fairly level playing field. In past generations, blacks were dissuaded from playing QB at all levels of football. Even today, although the NFL is forward thinking, there is still quite of backwards thinking in the collegiate and high school ranks. I don't think this is relevant to Cam Newton, as he has every opportunity, I'm just saying that prior to 2000 that data is pretty skewed.

 

Doug Williams won a SB btw, but was not a franchise QB. I'd say McNabb and Vick are/were franchise QBs, but no SBs obviously. Warren Moon and Randall Cunningham were franchise QBs, also.

 

Whites have clearly had more success at QB than blacks. Vice versa for many other positions. Howerver, don't try to act like there have never been good black QBs or there never will again, because that's just not the case.

 

Jim Kelly never won a SB either, but he was still a great QB!

 

 

edit: as far as the throw farther thing, it's not really that correct. I'm not sure if you realize this but throwing it farther is not that important, anyways. It's throwing it ACCURATELY. White people are good at this - look at baseball. There are still lots of white pitchers dominating despite the influx of many different ethnicities. There are pitchers of other ethnicities dominating too, but white people are not at some genetic disadvantage there.

Edited March 7, 2011 by NaPolian8693