todd Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I think the Bills are finally playing well, but Ralph is getting senile to say that TD has this job as long as he wants it. Let's say the Bills finish 9-7, a great comeback from 1-5, but still no playoffs. I think I would want to see how he does next season, make sure that the Bills are competitive from the start of the season. Another 1-5 start would doom him in my eyes. He has to prove consistency. 160049[/snapback] Steven - your loathing for Donahoe has clouded your judgement. And I'd say Ralph is not senile, and knows quite a bit more about football than you do. Consistency? Any time a 1st year coach finishes above .500 is a pretty good feat. It looks like we'll do that this year. It's time you give credit where credit is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSouth Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 24-37. That´s the bottom line. Even if you take the first year numbers out of the equation, his record with us is 21-24. Not good enough. And 0-0 in the playoffs. Which is what really matters. If we make the playoffs this year, that will change for the worse, I guess. This team is not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The way I have seen pro analysts attempt to do this is weigh the round and selection in the round the player was drafted, 2nd round pick 15 for example,and them make an assessment as to his performanace after year 1,2 and 3. A top five player should be getting Pro Bowl votes. Players drafted in rounds 1 - 2 should all be starters. Players drafted in round 3 should be contributing and seeing significant playing time. And so on. This is oversimplified as I state it. We've had a lot of high 1st round picks to use, don't see any ProBowlers? 160324[/snapback] As is pointed by Alaska Darin seems to be set too high for many (AD says any) GMs to meet out the standard. Figuring that the top 1/3 of GMs are better than 2/3 oftheir peers are there even 10 teams that meet the standards you set to not be considered sub-par. Even beyond making this judgment do you think it measures whether a GM is a good drafter or not. Picking a player may be the right move for a drafter to make, but I think it woold not be correct to find a fault with his draft prowess because that player got hurt and never made the Pro Bowl. Sure proneness to injury is a factor important for making a good pick, but would you really say TD made a bad choice in Losman because TV hurt him practice? Further is a draft choice not a good choice if he doesn't make the Pro Bowl because the position is loaded and other players rack up the Pro Bowl votes and get the nod. However, even by the factoids you name, 7 of the 12 Bills drafted in TDs first year started for the team at some point in their careers. 5 of the 10 players drafted in '02 started for the team, 3 of 8 drafted in '03 (including WM and McGee) and 1 of the 6 drafted last year. My guess this is easily par among TDs peers. You might fault him if you want because Clements at CB ain't a Pro Bowler and Williams ain't a Pro Bowler but declaring someone sub=par because of this does not seem logical and by your own standards 50% or better of his picks from top to bottom in the draft become starters for the team at some point by their third year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 24-37. That´s the bottom line. Even if you take the first year numbers out of the equation, his record with us is 21-24. Not good enough. And 0-0 in the playoffs. Which is what really matters. If we make the playoffs this year, that will change for the worse, I guess. This team is not there yet. 160362[/snapback] Not good enough for who? It's called rebuilding. If you shortcut rebuilding you get into salary cap hell every few years & suck again. Donahoe is building a championship contender that will not be like the 49ers ended up. Lets compare the 1999-present 49ers to the 2001-present Bills. I guess you would consider 49ers 1999 through 2002 better than what we've done. For the record: In 1999 the 49ers, with salary cap problems & Young's impending retirement sunk to 4-12. So: SF 1999 4-12 Bills 2001 3-13 SF 2000 6-10 Bills 2002 8-8 SF 2001 12-4 (0-1 playoffs) Bills 2003 6-10 SF 2002 10-6 (1-1 playoffs) Bills 2004 7-6 + ? But, after 2002 SF sunk to 7-9 last year & are arguably the worst team in the NFL in 2004. I'm sure you would be a lot happier if we were like the 49ers were by 2002, but TD has a better, long range plan. You may not like the 5 year plan that TD mapped out, but fortunately for everyone he's running things, not you. Show a little patience. If you wait another year I'm sure you will be happy with the results. Here's some evidence that it was a 5 year plan all along: 1) Gave Gregg only a 3 year contract (I believe he wanted Marvin Lewis & had to settle for Gregg because Lewis' lack of interest in the job caught him totally off guard-my guess is Lewis might have been given a better deal that gave him enough time to complete the rebuilding). 1st year coaches don't usually win it all (Gruden, who inhertited a team ready to win and Siefert who inherited a SB champ are the exceptions), 2nd year coaches do (Billick, Bellichick are 2 recent examples). So if he had to bring a new coach in in year 4, he had the extra year he needed. 2) Drafted McGahee in year 3 when it was obvious that he would contribute nothing in his 1st year. 3) Traded up for Losman so that if Drew had problems in year 5 of the reconstruction, he'd have a new starter with a year+ in the system under his belt & could win with either if Drew didn't fall off in 2005. Now, while there are no guarantees that we'll win the Super Bowl next year. I'm feeling confident enough to say See You In Detroit 2006! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven in MD Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Steven - your loathing for Donahoe has clouded your judgement. And I'd say Ralph is not senile, and knows quite a bit more about football than you do. Consistency? Any time a 1st year coach finishes above .500 is a pretty good feat. It looks like we'll do that this year. It's time you give credit where credit is due. 160337[/snapback] Look at teams such as Carolina and Cincy....both had good to great years last season, both are marginal this season. I think Mularkey is doing a great job, and I believe TD hit this one correctly. Though I am leary that this team can sustain the momentum over the off season, and furthermore, I think TD will have some tough decisions this off season. If I was Ralph (and maybe he knows more about football than I, but I considre myself pretty astute), I would wait till 4 games into next season before extending TD contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Overall, a key to substantiating your complaint is your use of the word "sub-par". Is par set by the rest of the league's performance in picking winners or is par set by your hopes and dreams as fan. There's the crux of that argument. As far as I'm concerned anybody that is not happy with Donahoe's draft/UDFA work in his four off-seasons here is simply out of touch with reality. I challenge anybody to show me the organizations who have done better in the draft than the Bills the last 4 years. And I guarantee you that challenge will go unanswered. Until somebody can provide some tangible examples of teams having superior drafts to the Bills the last several years, all those empty arguments will continue to fall on deaf ears. Cya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Look at teams such as Carolina and Cincy....both had good to great years last season, both are marginal this season. I think Mularkey is doing a great job, and I believe TD hit this one correctly. Though I am leary that this team can sustain the momentum over the off season, and furthermore, I think TD will have some tough decisions this off season. If I was Ralph (and maybe he knows more about football than I, but I considre myself pretty astute), I would wait till 4 games into next season before extending TD contract. 160756[/snapback] Tough decisions? Like what? We aren't in cap jail any more, so there are no cuts we need to make just to remain solvent. It sure is nice to say that, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Look at teams such as Carolina and Cincy....both had good to great years last season, both are marginal this season. I think Mularkey is doing a great job, and I believe TD hit this one correctly. Though I am leary that this team can sustain the momentum over the off season, and furthermore, I think TD will have some tough decisions this off season. If I was Ralph (and maybe he knows more about football than I, but I considre myself pretty astute), I would wait till 4 games into next season before extending TD contract. 160756[/snapback] What tough decisions does he have this off season? This off season should be a breeze compared to last year. The toughest thing I can think of is Jennings, and that is not only TD's decision to make. Jennings must decide if he wants to play here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 What tough decisions does he have this off season? This off season should be a breeze compared to last year. The toughest thing I can think of is Jennings, and that is not only TD's decision to make. Jennings must decide if he wants to play here. 160936[/snapback] Maybe Steve's town has been sucked into a time warp which put him back to the year 2000 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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