....lybob Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I really don't think one is better than the other the only frustrating thing about running the 3-4 is that our best defensive player Kyle Williams is more of a one gap 4-3 dt than a NT. Our front seven players at this time is a mix ( 4-3 types Williams, POZ, Kelsey, Ellison) (3-4 types Dwan Edwards, Merriman, Maybin, Johnson) and (neutral or unknown Carrington, Troup, Moats, Batten). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I really don't think one is better than the other the only frustrating thing about running the 3-4 is that our best defensive player Kyle Williams is more of a one gap 4-3 dt than a NT. Our front seven players at this time is a mix ( 4-3 types Williams, POZ, Kelsey, Ellison) (3-4 types Dwan Edwards, Merriman, Maybin, Johnson) and (neutral or unknown Carrington, Troup, Moats, Batten). In other words, we don't have the players to play either defense well (see our run defense for evidence) and use a "hybrid" scheme out of necessity. Our defense is a sack with a couple of blocks, a couple of tinker toys, a couple of legos, a rubber band, a screw, a nut, and a few dust bunnies. Waffling is about the worst possible course to take. Decide what you want to be and do it. Flip flopping and trying to make oranges taste like avocados is a good way to guarantee failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 In other words, we don't have the players to play either defense well (see our run defense for evidence) and use a "hybrid" scheme out of necessity. Our defense is a sack with a couple of blocks, a couple of tinker toys, a couple of legos, a rubber band, a screw, a nut, and a few dust bunnies. Waffling is about the worst possible course to take. Decide what you want to be and do it. Flip flopping and trying to make oranges taste like avocados is a good way to guarantee failure. agreed so here is a question if you go to a 3-4 and get a BIG NT like Paul Soliai do you keep kyle Williams as a passing down NT or do you try to find a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 agreed so here is a question if you go to a 3-4 and get a BIG NT like Paul Soliai do you keep kyle Williams as a passing down NT or do you try to find a trade. I still believe that it is in their long-term best interest for the Bills to trade him. The decision to go 3-4 was made (agree or disagree with that decision as you will) and a large chunk of a draft class used to support that decision as well as several FA signings and a waiver wire claim. Like other situations with this team, an organization has to make some hard calls at times in order to move forward. We're not going to win the Super Bowl as this team currently stands, so who're we fooling? The cynic would note that the Bills will just let him walk when his contract is up anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 We should stick with the 3/4. We haven't had success under the 4/3, i wasn't happy with Donahoe's decision to switch to the 4/3 to begin with given our success rate under dc's Walt Corey, Wade Phillips, and Ted Cotrell and personnel at the time. Buddy should stick with the 3/4. Darius in the first, Phil Taylor in the second our starting line would be LE Williams - NT Taylor - RE Darius Basically saying that last years 2nd and 3rd rounders are busts. If we draft 2 DL in rounds 1 and 2, I'll laugh, then cry. dL is important, but we have LOTs of needs. We can't invest 4 HIGH draft picks on DL in 2 years. 4 DL and Spiller....please no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 agreed so here is a question if you go to a 3-4 and get a BIG NT like Paul Soliai do you keep kyle Williams as a passing down NT or do you try to find a trade. Banned for life!! Never ever speak of those two things in the same sentence. I shudder.. You should at least be put on probation and forced to review our Kyle working it out this past season. Kyle can play most of the positions and him being waay undersized for 3/4 NT past year did a fine job. He will be fine at 34 end dont you worry. Now go wash your mouth out with soap!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 From what I heard on Washington radio, Haynesworth can be had for something like a third or fourth rounder. It was only two years ago that he was the best defensive player in the league in a 4-3. I would think he'd be worth a 4th to try again. I dont' think he's even had injury problems, like Merriman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Stroud is also a 4-3 DT that lost weight and converted to a 3-4 DE for us last year. He got 3 sacks from that position too. This team is actually still closer to a 4-3 than a 3-4 depth wise even after one year of trying to switch. The 3 man front usually just creates a wall of big guys so the LBs can do the rest. With the 4 man front big guys play a gap and penetrate while the LBs play the gaps left over. The problem with the Bills last year is that the DL were penetrating instead of creating a wall leaving the linebackers to guess what gap they needed to play after the fact. This is big problem because great linebacker play requires them to know their assignment. Defensive linemen and LBs need to know what each other are doing. It's not just DL talking to other DL. Its DL talking to LBs and LBs talking to DL as well. Adding Wannstedt to coach these guys is exactly what this team needed. Hopefully he can figure out how to get these guys to play to their talents. And I am tired of people saying there is no talent. KW and Stroud have made the probowl. I think there are others that can get there too. This team needs to get an identity and stick with it. Whether its 3-4 or 4-3 doesn't really matter as long as everyone is on the same page. Our defenders last year had talent, but any idiot can see that they didn't know where they were suppose to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 said he will not play 3/4 i thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 said he will not play 3/4 i thought No, that's why I would advocate for the 4-3 and pick him up. So many teams are going 3-4, we would have another reason to go 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Stroud is also a 4-3 DT that lost weight and converted to a 3-4 DE for us last year. He got 3 sacks from that position too. This team is actually still closer to a 4-3 than a 3-4 depth wise even after one year of trying to switch. The 3 man front usually just creates a wall of big guys so the LBs can do the rest. With the 4 man front big guys play a gap and penetrate while the LBs play the gaps left over. The problem with the Bills last year is that the DL were penetrating instead of creating a wall leaving the linebackers to guess what gap they needed to play after the fact. This is big problem because great linebacker play requires them to know their assignment. Defensive linemen and LBs need to know what each other are doing. It's not just DL talking to other DL. Its DL talking to LBs and LBs talking to DL as well. Adding Wannstedt to coach these guys is exactly what this team needed. Hopefully he can figure out how to get these guys to play to their talents. And I am tired of people saying there is no talent. KW and Stroud have made the probowl. I think there are others that can get there too. This team needs to get an identity and stick with it. Whether its 3-4 or 4-3 doesn't really matter as long as everyone is on the same page. Our defenders last year had talent, but any idiot can see that they didn't know where they were suppose to be. That is a very good and positive attitude. It has been mentioned about identity before. The Defense needs one. We have to be able to stand their o line up to see if out LBs have what it takes. Not too sure about that now but we had the injuries. Once we show a solid front then we can consider shooting gaps. You sir have some points that i noticed also. the line and the backers seemed out of sync and the LBs were recovering. I saw some of the same with the safeties. This is not good becuase it might be a coaching problem. I hope Dave can help us at least look like we are on the same page. go bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I like the 4-3 because it means an extra spot for a fat guy I am all about fat guy affirmative action i like the fat guys too...thats why i want the Bills to draft Fairley or Dareus. if it was up to me, we would already have Ngata and Wilfork...heck, i would have traded up for Suh. usually the 4-3 has only two fat guys.....the 3-4 has three. the 3-4 offers MORE flexibilty in coverage, assuming your OLB's can stay with a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 2 fat guys and a Kyle ftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I really don't think one is better than the other the only frustrating thing about running the 3-4 is that our best defensive player Kyle Williams is more of a one gap 4-3 dt than a NT. Our front seven players at this time is a mix ( 4-3 types Williams, POZ, Kelsey, Ellison) (3-4 types Dwan Edwards, Merriman, Maybin, Johnson) and (neutral or unknown Carrington, Troup, Moats, Batten). Maybin hasn't shown that he fits in any scheme. There's also the argument that with teams switching to the 3-4, more talent would then be available of players who fit the 4-3. The pickin's get pretty slim at good NTs when so many teams run / are going to the 3-4. It also puts a lot of onus on LBs --- a very costly unit that has one of the highest injury rates. Some would prefer to put stock into guys on the line who have more, shall we say, natural padding. Then, the theory would be that as these DL get more pressure on the QB. As OLs have gotten bigger and more adept at blocking, I guess the consensus in the NFL has shifted toward a need to create confusion (re: which LB may be blitzing) rather than lining up fat guys against fat guys. If we could get Fairley or Bowers, I would be all for reverting to a most-of-the-time 4-3 to clog up the middle and if they don't get penetration/pocket pressure/bat down passes (it seems like every team in the NFL except the Bills gets 2-3 bat-downs a game) they at least force the run to the outside. +1 on everything. I am very frustrated with this front office and the decision to go to the 3-4. Another 3 years wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Maybin hasn't shown that he fits in any scheme. True. Maybe he can learn to play TE? +1 on everything. I am very frustrated with this front office and the decision to go to the 3-4. Another 3 years wasted. Buddy said at the Senior Bowl that it will take 4 years to get the right players for the defense. So, after 4 years of finding players to field a Tampa-2 defense, they embark on a 4 year plan to build a 3-4 defense for which they didn't really have any of the right pieces in place. Maybe they'll reverse course and go back to the Tampa-2. Or maybe they'll get a new wild hair, and run the 46 defense, stop the run, and get shredded by that "new fangled" short passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 we were better in the 4-3 When? This D has not been even average in many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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