Jim Kelly

[Zona]

I wonder if Kelly is given executor status for the Bills in Ralph's Will for the sale of the Bills only, not any of Ralph's personal stuff. I mean, Ralph can legally do whatever he wants with them yes? what better way for Ralph to make one FINAL effort to keep the Beloved Bills where they belong? Kelly has the best interests of WNY at heart, and we all know it. If Kelly has the power to decide who can buy the team, then he can decide not to take offers from groups who want to move the team.

 

Simple, really. It just is a random, alcohol induced thought....

[flopagamo]

Hold everything... they've dropped to a valuation of $799M.

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/30/football-valuations-10_Buffalo-Bills_301765.html

[The Senator]

I wouldn't expect details to be announced for all your reasons you cited.

But a "don't worry be happy" statement from Mr. Wilson like I alluded to instead of silence could go a long way.

 

But If I owned a 900 million dollar asset maybe I would understand

I guess we will know when we know

You make some excellent points, my Programming Primate friend, but what flies in the face of your Occam's Razor reasoning - to me, at least - is all this noise Jim Kelly has been making about an well-funded ownership group ready to buy and keep the team here. Kelly doesn't seem the type to make up that kind of ****, so why would he be saying the things he's been saying for the last several years? Any thoughts?

[Tom]

My "inside source", FWIW, at One Bills Drive, told me a few years ago (after TD was fired) that it was announced to the staff that Jim Kelly would "be around" the offices a lot more, working for the team in some un-named, unspecified capacity. They were assured that he would not be a coach, but given very little other information. The presumption was that he was going to be a sort of "apprentice-GM". But now, who knows, maybe Mr Wilson was making an arraingement for Kelly to learn all the day to day ins and outs of owning a team, up close?

 

BTW- doubt my story, but I had at least two folks who "lurk" here PM me at the time, asking how I knew about this. It was supposed to be "top secret". I didn't divuldge my source.

 

Jim Kelly states that he is an employee of the Bills...... Ambassador I believe.

[UpperDeck]

Alright! Intelligent debate is possible on this board. Nice job!!! At the end of it all it could be 1 and it could be 2.

 

The reason to keep quiet for option two is pretty clear, as for option 1, I say this is a coveted football franchise, there are a number of folks out there with the capital to obtain a team but the opportunities are clearly few and far between to get into the owner's box of an NFL team and the less that is known about the impeding deal the better the ability to protect the outcome.

 

If the arrangement details were released prior to executing the transaction, it may give other interested parties with the means an avenue to attempt to coercing an alternate outcome or to interfere with the legal structure developed to transfer ownership. Maybe details of the arrangement could compromise current operations. In a nutshell, to avoid tampering you keep it quiet.

 

Details of the big deals are rarely disclosed unless they legally must be, and almost never in advance.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. In addition, Kelly might be making strong statements to keep others from even trying to make a run at buying the team. Make them think "Hmm, there's a strong commitment from a group to buy the team and keep it there. Do I really want to get into a bidding war?".

 

As far as WHO might be Kelly's financial backer, I've been telling my friends that I think its Donald Trump. I think Kelly's had a good relationship with him since the New Jersey Generals days and of course he has the means. I never thought of Danny Wegman but I like the idea of him being involved.

[Nostradamus]

This is exactly what I was thinking. In addition, Kelly might be making strong statements to keep others from even trying to make a run at buying the team. Make them think "Hmm, there's a strong commitment from a group to buy the team and keep it there. Do I really want to get into a bidding war?".

 

As far as WHO might be Kelly's financial backer, I've been telling my friends that I think its Donald Trump. I think Kelly's had a good relationship with him since the New Jersey Generals days and of course he has the means. I never thought of Danny Wegman but I like the idea of him being involved.

 

Never thought of Trump, but that would be outstanding! Everyone is questioning why Ralph wouldn't publicly claim that he was selling the Bills to Kelly, thereby bringing joy and relief to the western New York area, and I have several ideas as to why that would be the case.

1. He has no great incentive to do so. While we as a community would rejoice, he wouldn't derive any tangible benefit from announcing the sale now. It's not as if we'd be buying him rounds at the bar or free lunches were he to make the announcement.

2. This isn't a landlord tenant-lease, and he isn't selling Jimbo a baseball card. This is the sale of a NFL franchise approaching 1 billion dollars. Being an attorney, I can say there are hundreds of details and nuances to a sale that need to be worked out. It's understandable if both parties would want to keep a lid on this thing until it's finalized. One could argue that the lid is starting to come off with comments such as the ones Kelly just made.

3. Ralph is a proud person, and I'm sure his pride has taken a beating over the course of the past ten years. However, I'm sure he wanted to get this thing turned around; there is no reason that he wouldn't want to do so. While, I would agree that this teams decisions border on the bizarre and would almost appear that he is deliberately sabotaging the team, one has to realize that the franchise is devaluing itself as the team suffers. A winning team could ultimately net Wilson an additional 100 or 200 million dollars. So... I think Ralph wanted to prove to us and the fans that the franchise was capable of turning itself around under HIS ownership. That would have given him piece of mind heading into the afterworld and given him one last accomplishment in a lifetime that has been full of them.

One almost forgets that as recently as two years ago, it sure looked like he had finally re-routed the franchise back to prosperity. Sadly, it now appears that he will be unable to do so, and his own words indicate that he may not see Bills football as it should be again in his lifetime. He seems resigned that the team will only begin to prosper again with new ownership.

Interestingly, his words given to John Wawrow (whose insight would be greatly appreciated) corresponded with Jimbo now sounding far more open and forward about taking over the reins. You think maybe they are communicating with one another?? Also as an aside, why hire Jim Kelly at all if you are looking to relocate the franchise or even sell to the highest bidder upon your passing? Ralph knows that Jim's first priority is not just keeping the team here, but OWNING the team, albeit as a minority owner. That being the case, if Ralph didn't want to sell the team to Kelly, you would think he would want to keep him as far away from the franchise as possible. Instead, he hires him...

I, like most people, have no personal knowledge of the situation at One Bills Drive. But, just from analyzing the situation objectively, I now have a strong belief that the Bills will be staying in Buffalo for the foreseeable future.

[yall]

I wouldn't expect details to be announced for all your reasons you cited.

But a "don't worry be happy" statement from Mr. Wilson like I alluded to instead of silence could go a long way.

 

But If I owned a 900 million dollar asset maybe I would understand

I guess we will know when we know

 

He seems to be content to imply such assurances though, or at least let others voice them on his behalf.

 

I recall when Schumer came here a few years ago, as he was feigning concern about the Bills moving. They spoke, and Schumer left on a "I spoke with Wislon - and I'm confident things are cool" note.

 

If that really is the case, I don't understand why we don't get any such statement from the horses mouth, but maybe there is some unseen lethod to the madness.

[1B4IDie]

Quick (dumb?) question - What is Kelly's working relationship with the Bills? I was surprised to hear that he works for the Bills in some sort of capacity. Thanks.

Correct, that is the key.

If there were really a transition plan, why wouldn't it be in effect today?

Mr. Wilson is approaching 100.

 

Look at the Wizards/Bullets with Abe Polan. There wad a transition plan for Ted Leonsis to become a minority owner to a majority owner.

It's much easier for the NFL to clear new ownership if it's already in the ownership club.

Then the NFL would need to inspect the financials behind Jim Kelly's White Knights of the unicorn investment group and the lawyers could work out the details on how JK would acquire the other 90% ownership from the Wilson estate and life moves on.

I'll believe JK's big talk when he puts up a 10% share and becomes a minority owner. Until then this is a pipe dream.

 

Plus don't you think the NFL is itching to get the Bills out of WNY?

Edited October 16, 2010 by Levitre + Wang = Wood

[spartacus]

You make some excellent points, my Programming Primate friend, but what flies in the face of your Occam's Razor reasoning - to me, at least - is all this noise Jim Kelly has been making about an well-funded ownership group ready to buy and keep the team here.  Kelly doesn't seem the type to make up that kind of ****, so why would he be saying the things he's been saying for the last several years?  Any thoughts?

 

continuing with Occam's Razor - now we know what the Bills are paying Kelly for

[Buftex]

Jim Kelly states that he is an employee of the Bills...... Ambassador I believe.

 

 

Yes, I realize that. But this meeting took place after TD was fired, and the Bills were looking for a GM. They went that season without a real GM, as you recall, and Russ Brandon became the de-facto guy. The Kelly as ambassador thing didn't come around for a while after that. I was told he has far more contact with the front office than you would expect for an ex-player working as an "ambassador".

[CodeMonkey]

You make some excellent points, my Programming Primate friend, but what flies in the face of your Occam's Razor reasoning - to me, at least - is all this noise Jim Kelly has been making about an well-funded ownership group ready to buy and keep the team here. Kelly doesn't seem the type to make up that kind of ****, so why would he be saying the things he's been saying for the last several years? Any thoughts?

JK speaks from his heart. I have no doubt he is doing all he can to keep the Bills in WNY.

 

But JK has no coaching experience, much less GM or CEO experience. And as far as I know, not even any business experience at any level, much less at the 800-900 million dollar enterprise level. If you were in a position to financially back someone to the tune of almost a billion dollars of your money, would you back someone with Jim Kellys experience? He certainly has a name that would make Bills fans very happy, but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure that I would not. It is simply too much money to make that kind of a gamble, at least for me.

 

continuing with Occam's Razor - now we know what the Bills are paying Kelly for

So you think he is getting paid to be some kind of owner apprentice?

Kind of out there a little isn't it?

[spartacus]

JK speaks from his heart.  I have no doubt he is doing all he can to keep the Bills in WNY.  

 

But JK has no coaching experience, much less GM or CEO experience.  And as far as I know, not even any business experience at any level, much less at the 800-900 million dollar enterprise level.  If you were in a position to financially back someone to the tune of almost a billion dollars of your money, would you back someone with Jim Kellys experience?  He certainly has a name that would make Bills fans very happy, but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure that I would not.  It is simply too much money to make that kind of a gamble, at least for me.

 

 

So you think he is getting paid to be some kind of owner apprentice?

Kind of out there a little isn't it?

 

no - they are paying Kelly to spout the company line- since there is no one in the front office with any credibility

 

 

with the big market owners hell-bent on reducing revenue sharing with the small markets- there is no way someone making a $1 billion investment keeps the team in Buffalo where there is no ccorporate support 

 

 

[jahbonas]

I don't believe Mr. Wilson owes anyone an explanation. But can you think of a logical reason to keep it secret if the team is staying in WNY? I cannot.

 

Code Monkey - its called Leverage - and Wilson has been threatening WNY to move the team for 40 years (remember the big threat to move to Seattle in 1971 unless Rich Stadium built?).... that old man will NEVER give WNY fans and its politicians a cozy feeling that their team is guaranteed to stay in WNY - never - he loves the threat too much and the squeezes he gets out of it.

[jahbonas]

best argument I ever heard regarding Wislon implementing a plan to keep the Bills in Buffalo is the following:

 

Why would Wilson (who like his $$$ as much as anyone) bypass the profits that HE could have made so to keep a team in WNY and then allow after his death some stranger to make those same profits that he bypassed to move the team out of WNY - it does not make much sense.

It does make sense for him not to announce this because he always squeezes WNY for every dime he can - that never changes.

His entire legacy after he passes is consistent with keeping a team here - his actions his whole lifetime reflect it - he voted against every franchise relocation in the NFL and he himself bypassed huge profits to not relocate.

 

I always thought he missed out on a majical moment when at his HOF induction (which was not due to any winning success but much to do with longevity and sticking up for small markets) he could have announced that he implemented a plan to guarantee the smallest market in the NFL will not lose its franchise - Canton crowd would have gone nuts and he could have stolen the show! Unfortunately Ralph even at 90 loved the leverage more than the majical moment

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

My issue with all the conjecture around what happens after Mr. Wilson passes is that it is all conjecture still.

 

Why keep plans a secret if they do exist? Why keep everyone guessing?

 

Ockham's razor comes to mind. When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. So which makes the most sense to you:

 

1) There is a plan in place for Mr. Kelly and associates, or some other group, to buy the Bills and keep them in WNY. But not publicly acknowledge such a plan in the least which keeps the fan base, coaches, players, as well as any potential coach and player hires questioning the future of the team and tend to avoid making a commitment to a team whose future is uncertain.

 

or

 

2) There is a plan in place that will cause the eventual relocation of the team. But not publicly acknowledge such a plan in an effort to keep the fans coming to the games instead of disowning the Bills immediately which also allows the Bills to stay in Buffalo the entire time Mr. Wilson is alive.

 

or

 

3) There is no plan at all and the future of a 900 million dollar business entity if left to see where the chips fall after Mr. Wilsons passing.

 

Obviously 3 gets discounted immediately as Mr. Wilson is not a moron. So out of 1 and 2, which makes the most sense to you?

 

I do not know Mr. Wilson or Mr. Kelly or any of their business people. So I am just theorizing like everyone else. But until someone who is credible comes forward (preferably the most credible which would be Mr. Wilson himself) and states otherwise, my guess is number 2 above.

 

You shouldn't cite Occam's razor unless you can spell Occam's razor. Just FYI.

[The Senator]

You shouldn't cite Occam's razor unless you can spell Occam's razor. Just FYI.

Actually, K-LOC KoKo is OK with his spelling, as there are multiple 'correct' spellings of the principle that bears the name of William of Ockham. Just FYI.

[Keukasmallies]

At one point, Jim Kelly had a restaurant in downtown Buffalo. As I recall he stiffed vendors and investors when it went belly up. Do investors really want to do business with him?

[dayman]

I don't buy it...never have...who are the mysterious money guys Jim knows? "I don't entertain offers to move the team"...wtf...he acts like he's getting them. He's a nobody. What is he talking about?

Edited October 16, 2010 by dayman

[gobillsinytown]

My issue with all the conjecture around what happens after Mr. Wilson passes is that it is all conjecture still.

 

Why keep plans a secret if they do exist? Why keep everyone guessing?

 

Ockham's razor comes to mind. When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. So which makes the most sense to you:

 

1) There is a plan in place for Mr. Kelly and associates, or some other group, to buy the Bills and keep them in WNY. But not publicly acknowledge such a plan in the least which keeps the fan base, coaches, players, as well as any potential coach and player hires questioning the future of the team and tend to avoid making a commitment to a team whose future is uncertain.

 

or

 

2) There is a plan in place that will cause the eventual relocation of the team. But not publicly acknowledge such a plan in an effort to keep the fans coming to the games instead of disowning the Bills immediately which also allows the Bills to stay in Buffalo the entire time Mr. Wilson is alive.

 

or

 

3) There is no plan at all and the future of a 900 million dollar business entity if left to see where the chips fall after Mr. Wilsons passing.

 

Obviously 3 gets discounted immediately as Mr. Wilson is not a moron. So out of 1 and 2, which makes the most sense to you?

 

I do not know Mr. Wilson or Mr. Kelly or any of their business people. So I am just theorizing like everyone else. But until someone who is credible comes forward (preferably the most credible which would be Mr. Wilson himself) and states otherwise, my guess is number 2 above.

 

 

Good reasoning here, but you're forgetting one thing: This will be roughly an 800 million dollar transaction. With that amount of money involved, all the parties you mentioned are going to keep things secret. That being said, the only statement that Ralph has made about this issue is that:

1. The team will stay in Buffalo while he is alive.

2. The team will be sold upon his death, as he doesn not want to leave the team to his wife or his children.

 

These statements were made by Ralph to reporters about 2 years ago. A lot can change in 2 years, but as of now Ralph has made no other mention of what his plans are.

I know us Bills fans feel that we have a right to know what's going on, but the Buffalo Bills are a private enterprise, owned by a man who is known for wanting to keep his privacy. Right or wrong, that's his priveledge. And honestly if I were in Ralph's position I'm not sure I would be making the details of my business or finances public either. With the amount of money that's going to be involved, public statements can ruin a transaction in a hurry, especially in our litigious society.

[UpperDeck]

I hate to say it but the best thing that Ralph could do for his family is pass away before the end of the year. No inheritance tax. But when you are talking about $1 billion plus whatever other assets he has his family will not go hungry even after paying the estate taxes.

 

Ralph clearly has no desire to move the team and he really only makes any hints about doing so when lease agreements are involved. I'm sure he would like to insure that even after his passing but there are no guarantees when this much cash is involved.

[The Senator]

JK speaks from his heart. I have no doubt he is doing all he can to keep the Bills in WNY.

 

But JK has no coaching experience, much less GM or CEO experience. And as far as I know, not even any business experience at any level, much less at the 800-900 million dollar enterprise level. If you were in a position to financially back someone to the tune of almost a billion dollars of your money, would you back someone with Jim Kellys experience? He certainly has a name that would make Bills fans very happy, but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure that I would not. It is simply too much money to make that kind of a gamble, at least for me.

 

 

So you think he is getting paid to be some kind of owner apprentice?

Kind of out there a little isn't it?

Interesting choice of words there, CM - if you remember, Jim Kelly ended his USFL career with the New Jersey Generals & "The Donald". Could Jim be the ultimate apprentice here, and Trump a potential buyer? Jimbo may not have any bonafide business experience, but you can't question Trump's business accumen, and he was a team owner some years ago in a rival league he helped form - albeit a failed league.

 

Back when Kelly first started talking about this, I always suspected that Jack Kemp was involved in some capacity - and, when Kemp got involved with former NY governor Mario Cuomo, Henry Aaron, and Tony Tavares (Washington Nationals owner) to form a special-purpose acquisition company (SPAC), I was virtually certain they were putting something together to buy the Bills based on certain things they were saying that 'resonated' with Jim Kelly's statements...

 

"The more I looked at it, the more I realized that the potential for sports properties and entertainment in a global economy is huge," said Kemp, who runs Kemp Partners, a Washington-based investing firm, and is chairman of Sports Properties. "SPACs are hot."

 

Murstein reached out last summer to Kemp -- a former professional football quarterback, Republican congressman and vice presidential nominee -- bringing him on as chairman of Sports Properties. "I knew he would be a great door opener and someone who understood not only sports, but public financing of sports facilities," said Murstein.

 

Sports Properties then tapped Tavares as chief executive, hoping to draw on his experience running other sports franchises, including the Nationals, the California Angels and the NHL's Mighty Ducks. A partner at Kemp's firm, James R. Taylor, is an adviser to the SPAC; Aaron and Cuomo are directors.

 

For now, Sports Properties is a shell in search of a real company. Last month, its managers went on a nationwide tour to find investors, raising $215 million. The units began trading on the American Stock Exchange two weeks ago, and closed at $9.84 on Friday, 1.6 percent below the IPO price of $10 per unit.

 

Now that it has investors, the firm is on the hunt for an acquisition, maybe something involving a professional sports team or a new stadium. Kemp said he is interested in exploring the construction of an arena in Las Vegas for a future National Basketball Association franchise.

 

"We are looking to buy something for a lot more than the $215 million," Murstein said. "We can raise more equity, apply leverage, or have the seller take back stock. We could buy something for over $1 billion for example."

 

(link - 2008 Washington Post article)

 

 

Something for 'over $1 billion'???? Hmmm.....

 

 

Of course, then Jack Kemp succumbed to cancer and died on us. (RIP, Jack - Bills fans still remember and love you.)

 

 

Now, The Donald - he could probably just write a check.

Edited October 17, 2010 by The Senator

[LasBillzz]

Here's another article in which Jim Kelly touches upon the future of the franchise. At first glance, it seemed to me more of what we already know at this point... that he is looking to put together a group of investors to purchase the team upon Ralph's demise.

 

But, reading the paragraph closely, one can infer that things have progressed a lot further than we have thought. The first example is when Kelly states "if that day comes when he decides, "It's time for me to relinquish the ownership..." "then I do have people in line that will want to purchase the team and keep it in western New York."

Two interesting things about this statement. First, the beginning of the sentence seems to indicate that Ralph would consider moving the franchise before he passes, a concept that has, to this point, been rejected by Ralph. Second, while Jim has been making noise for awhile about a group of potential investors, I never remember him being so declarative as he is when he states "I do have people in line that will want to purchase the team and keep it in Western New York." That suggests he has all his ducks in a row, and has everything set up in his corner for a purchase. No longer is the situation theoretical...he now has his people ready to make a move. Of course, that gives rise to speculation as to who those people are?

Other then the usual suspects, (Rich, Golisano, etc I have no idea who those people could be.) Although, I do think it's interesting that Paladino has been so chummy with Thurman of late. Paladino doesn't have the necessary funds to be a majority owner, but he could certainly chip in as a minority owner. At any rate, unless Jim is completely making things up, which seems unlikely, it appears he has assembled a legitimate group of buyers committed to keeping the team local.

What really grabbed my attention though, is the next sentence. "Because I do not entertain any offers from anybody looking to move the Buffalo Bills from western New York." Whoa... that makes it sound as if Jim is in the position to take offers from potential buyers. Only Ralphie would be in that position... unless a future sale was all but a done deal. Now Jim could have been talking about people making offers to join his ownership group... but he did not say that. Further, it seems unlikely there would be any offers to Jim from foreign investors looking to relocate, since everyone knows he is 100% committed to keeping the team here.

It could have just been clumsy wording on his part, or clumsy writing. But, this article, supplemented by John Wawrow's cryptic comments on WGR about him betting"70-30" the Bills would be here long term after his conversation with Ralph, definitely have me believing that Jim has something in the works and picking up steam.

 

What makes me sick and tired of all this conjecture (however well meaning) is the fact that Ralph Wilson at age 91 is still hanging on to the team. If indeed Jimbo has his ducks in a row, why not make an announcement before a sudden decline in health? Ralph has had the team for 50 years, bought it for something like $50,000, and made mega millions even before figuring in the final asking price. All for a team that has been mediocre or less for the huge majority of its existence, largely due to his shortcomings. Wilson won the stinking lottery when he became an AFL owner, and his team has been loyally supported by the best fans in the country, for better or worse, mostly worse.

 

My point is if the guy realized how lucky he is, how badly the franchise needs revitalization, and the idea that it's time to get off the horse, the city of Buffalo would not be twisting in the wind as it is now. How long does Ralph need the ego boost of knowing he is an NFL owner? Clearly his family doesn't care, as they don't want to inherit the Bills.

 

All of this brings me to two possibilities, both of which make me sick to my stomach: Jimbo has the investors in line (as he has been hinting at for years) and Ralph is hanging on out of sheer ego 'til death, or there is no plan in place and the Bills could go anywhere.

 

If the first scenario is feasible, I just wish an ounce of humility would enter this Ralph's psyche and he would let us all move on as he counts his cash. As to the second, it would be a sadly fitting end to a largely dysfunctional ownership.

[LasBillzz]

My issue with all the conjecture around what happens after Mr. Wilson passes is that it is all conjecture still.

 

Why keep plans a secret if they do exist? Why keep everyone guessing?

 

Ockham's razor comes to mind. When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. So which makes the most sense to you:

 

1) There is a plan in place for Mr. Kelly and associates, or some other group, to buy the Bills and keep them in WNY. But not publicly acknowledge such a plan in the least which keeps the fan base, coaches, players, as well as any potential coach and player hires questioning the future of the team and tend to avoid making a commitment to a team whose future is uncertain.

 

or

 

2) There is a plan in place that will cause the eventual relocation of the team. But not publicly acknowledge such a plan in an effort to keep the fans coming to the games instead of disowning the Bills immediately which also allows the Bills to stay in Buffalo the entire time Mr. Wilson is alive.

 

or

 

3) There is no plan at all and the future of a 900 million dollar business entity if left to see where the chips fall after Mr. Wilsons passing.

 

Obviously 3 gets discounted immediately as Mr. Wilson is not a moron. So out of 1 and 2, which makes the most sense to you?

 

I do not know Mr. Wilson or Mr. Kelly or any of their business people. So I am just theorizing like everyone else. But until someone who is credible comes forward (preferably the most credible which would be Mr. Wilson himself) and states otherwise, my guess is number 2 above.

 

Common sense razor here: 3) is a distinct possibility as Ralph didn't get to be rich by not caring about money. Assuming Wilson cares about his family too, 3) nets the largest windfall for his descendants, and lets him stay owner until death, after which we can assume he will no longer care. Either way, the "chips" fall into his family's pockets.