Am I absolutely crazy or...

[metzelaars_lives]

In a drunken (Jonathan) Stupar last night did I come on here and see a well thought-out thread a guy started about how Michael Vick was playing well despite the fact that the VAST majority of people on here said he was washed up and literally said that they would rather have Trent Edwards as their starter- and then within about 2-3 posts it imeediately turned into a debate about the ethics of employing someone who tortured dogs? People, once, now and forever, if we talk about Michael Vick, who is in my opinion the MVP OF THE NFL thus far, can we please talk about his performance on the football field and if you want to start a dog lover's thread, then start a dog lover's thread! The guy was runner-up MVP when he played for the Falcons and he's playing right back to that level again and quite honestly, it doesn't shock me. What shocked me was the people on here who said he was washed up this previous offseason and even more so, the people who tried to insist that he was never an effective NFL quarterback in the first place.

 

PS. Isn't it funny how when you have a competent NFL quarterback in the game, it makes your offensive line and receivers appear like they're actually better football players as well? After Green Bay, my friends and I were like, man our offensive line sucks, our receivers suck... With the exception of Cornell Green, both units appeared more than adequate yesterday.

 

PPS. You gotta like Jonathan 'drunken' Stupar as a nickname, right?

[timba]

The problem with that, is when people say 'despite his performance I don't want him on my team' the answer to 'why don't you want him' is inevitably because the dude is a sucky human being.

[Heels20X6]

In a drunken (Jonathan) Stupar last night did I come on here and see a well thought-out thread a guy started about how Michael Vick was playing well despite the fact that the VAST majority of people on here said he was washed up and literally said that they would rather have Trent Edwards as their starter- and then within about 2-3 posts it imeediately turned into a debate about the ethics of employing someone who tortured dogs? People, once, now and forever, if we talk about Michael Vick, who is in my opinion the MVP OF THE NFL thus far, can we please talk about his performance on the football field and if you want to start a dog lover's thread, then start a dog lover's thread! The guy was runner-up MVP when he played for the Falcons and he's playing right back to that level again and quite honestly, it doesn't shock me. What shocked me was the people on here who said he was washed up this previous offseason and even more so, the people who tried to insist that he was never an effective NFL quarterback in the first place.

 

PS. Isn't it funny how when you have a competent NFL quarterback in the game, it makes your offensive line and receivers appear like they're actually better football players as well? After Green Bay, my friends and I were like, man our offensive line sucks, our receivers suck... With the exception of Cornell Green, both units appeared more than adequate yesterday.

 

PPS. You gotta like Jonathan 'drunken' Stupar as a nickname, right?

 

You're absolutely right! I mean Vick just dissected the vaunted defenses of the Detroit Lions and the Jacksonville Jaguars - two elite franchises! Forget just awarding him the NFL MVP, we should just give Philadelphia the Super Bowl! I mean what's the point of going on with this season if it's already been established that Michael Vick is the greatest quarterback in the history of the game ever!!!

[metzelaars_lives]

You're absolutely right! I mean Vick just dissected the vaunted defenses of the Detroit Lions and the Jacksonville Jaguars - two elite franchises! Forget just awarding him the NFL MVP, we should just give Philadelphia the Super Bowl! I mean what's the point of going on with this season if it's already been established that Michael Vick is the greatest quarterback in the history of the game ever!!!

 

You should be a politician. Well done. Except for the fact that he also SHREDDED the Packers, whose defense actually is vaunted. Convenient of you to leave that one out. Well done sir. Also, you can only play against the teams on your schedule and he couldn't have played any better against Detroit or Jax. Who's your MVP so far?

 

You're absolutely right! I mean Vick just dissected the vaunted defenses of the Detroit Lions and the Jacksonville Jaguars - two elite franchises! Forget just awarding him the NFL MVP, we should just give Philadelphia the Super Bowl! I mean what's the point of going on with this season if it's already been established that Michael Vick is the greatest quarterback in the history of the game ever!!!

 

The more I read your response, the more I don't like it/you. Did I in any way insinuate that Michael Vick was the best quarterback to ever play the game? That would be a preposterous statement. Why can't anyone discuss this subject rationally?

[bowery4]

Ok your not crazy but you may be a little challenged in the lighting department (if you know what I mean). JK great thread. oh wait JK. Good drunken Stuper joke........ JK, wait.....you got a thing for tight ends? oh wait JK why can't I take this seriously? oh yeah, I know. Because there was a dumb Vick thread yesterday and that was more than enough.

[34-78-83]

In a drunken (Jonathan) Stupar last night did I come on here and see a well thought-out thread a guy started about how Michael Vick was playing well despite the fact that the VAST majority of people on here said he was washed up and literally said that they would rather have Trent Edwards as their starter- and then within about 2-3 posts it imeediately turned into a debate about the ethics of employing someone who tortured dogs? People, once, now and forever, if we talk about Michael Vick, who is in my opinion the MVP OF THE NFL thus far, can we please talk about his performance on the football field and if you want to start a dog lover's thread, then start a dog lover's thread! The guy was runner-up MVP when he played for the Falcons and he's playing right back to that level again and quite honestly, it doesn't shock me. What shocked me was the people on here who said he was washed up this previous offseason and even more so, the people who tried to insist that he was never an effective NFL quarterback in the first place.

 

PS. Isn't it funny how when you have a competent NFL quarterback in the game, it makes your offensive line and receivers appear like they're actually better football players as well? After Green Bay, my friends and I were like, man our offensive line sucks, our receivers suck... With the exception of Cornell Green, both units appeared more than adequate yesterday.

 

PPS. You gotta like Jonathan 'drunken' Stupar as a nickname, right?

 

 

Metz,

 

Vick is playing the Quarterback position now better than he EVER did in ATL. So the people who said he was not an effective QB in the past are correct as well. He was always decent because of the running threat. Now he's making better throws and better , more advanced reads (not just a primary and secondary target then run for the hills!). He's definitely proving me wrong in that I never thought he'd start to pick up the nuances of the position.

[The Dean]

In a drunken (Jonathan) Stupar last night did I come on here and see a well thought-out thread a guy started about how Michael Vick was playing well despite the fact that the VAST majority of people on here said he was washed up

 

 

You saw that thread, but that thread wasn't good enough for this post?

 

If you don't think people are going to respond to a douchy "I told you so" thread (after a couple of good games) about employing a serial dog torturer and murderer, you must be crazy. What makes you think THIS thread won't be similarly co-opted?

[Heels20X6]

You should be a politician. Well done. Except for the fact that he also SHREDDED the Packers, whose defense actually is vaunted. Convenient of you to leave that one out. Well done sir. Also, you can only play against the teams on your schedule and he couldn't have played any better against Detroit or Jax. Who's your MVP so far?

 

 

 

The more I read your response, the more I don't like it/you. Did I in any way insinuate that Michael Vick was the best quarterback to ever play the game? That would be a preposterous statement. Why can't anyone discuss this subject rationally?

 

Sorry if I came off snarky but this is the 3rd Vick-related post after just 2.5 starts. I am one of those people who felt Vick deserved a second chance and that the Bills should take a flyer on him but the "I told ya so's" coming out after just TWO full starts against sub-par teams is the equivalent of all those people who claimed the Bills were SB-bound after their mirage of a 5-1 start. You said it in your post that he is the NFL MVP right now? That's just silly hyperbole.

 

As for Green Bay, how exactly did he "shred" them in a loss? The Packers defense game-planned all week for Kevin Kolb, of course they'd be susceptible to Vick who brings a totally different dynamic to the QB position with his ability to escape the pocket and run.

 

I'll be impressed with Vick if he can keep up this pace now that teams have some game film on him to work with. I'll give him his due if he can lead the Eagles over the Skins next week.

 

Lastly, you don't award MVPs three games into a season. Peter King gave him MVP to Trent after 6 games. How'd that work out for us?

[metzelaars_lives]

Sorry if I came off snarky but this is the 3rd Vick-related post after just 2.5 starts. I am one of those people who felt Vick deserved a second chance and that the Bills should take a flyer on him but the "I told ya so's" coming out after just TWO full starts against sub-par teams is the equivalent of all those people who claimed the Bills were SB-bound after their mirage of a 5-1 start. You said it in your post that he is the NFL MVP right now? That's just silly hyperbole.

 

As for Green Bay, how exactly did he "shred" them in a loss? The Packers defense game-planned all week for Kevin Kolb, of course they'd be susceptible to Vick who brings a totally different dynamic to the QB position with his ability to escape the pocket and run.

 

I'll be impressed with Vick if he can keep up this pace now that teams have some game film on him to work with. I'll give him his due if he can lead the Eagles over the Skins next week.

 

Lastly, you don't award MVPs three games into a season. Peter King gave him MVP to Trent after 6 games. How'd that work out for us?

 

Fair response. I just want one person to say, damn I was wrong, he's playing great football right now. And to the guy who said he never played like this in Atlanta, he is wrong. As I stated, he finished second in MVP voting one year, he won a playoff game in Lambeau, I think he even took them to the NFC Championship game one year? The guy WAS this good and it amazes me how soon people forget.

 

Ok your not crazy but you may be a little challenged in the lighting department (if you know what I mean). JK great thread. oh wait JK. Good drunken Stuper joke........ JK, wait.....you got a thing for tight ends? oh wait JK why can't I take this seriously? oh yeah, I know. Because there was a dumb Vick thread yesterday and that was more than enough.

 

It's hard to take your condescending response seriously when as a grown man (or woman), you still have not been able to ascertain when to use "your" vs. "you're."

[DrDawkinstein]

Fair response. I just want one person to say, damn I was wrong, he's playing great football right now. And to the guy who said he never played like this in Atlanta, he is wrong. As I stated, he finished second in MVP voting one year, he won a playoff game in Lambeau, I think he even took them to the NFC Championship game one year? The guy WAS this good and it amazes me how soon people forget.

 

Id have to go back through every one of my posts, but as an anti-Vick poster I dont think I ever said he couldnt play well, or that we had a better QB on our team. I'll always admit that Vick possesses elite athletic skills. My only reason for not wanting him here is because of his past. I do believe he deserves a second chance, and Im happy that it looks like he has matured as a person (because even outside of the dog stuff, he was a ****ty human being while in Atlanta). But regardless of that, I still could not bring myself to cheer for him so I dont want him as a Bill. It may be borderline petty, but as someone who has rescued Pit Bulls, and as someone who will always have a rescued Pit in their house, I can barely look at that a-hole.

 

Good for him, I truly hope he has learned his lessons and will use that to succeed. But go do it on an NFC team we rarely play.

 

Edit: and EVERY Vick thread that is started here will come back to a moral debate because he made those decisions and will now be partly defined by those actions for the rest of his life.

Edited September 27, 2010 by DrDankenstein

[metzelaars_lives]

Id have to go back through every one of my posts, but as an anti-Vick poster I dont think I ever said he couldnt play well, or that we had a better QB on our team. I'll always admit that Vick possesses elite athletic skills. My only reason for not wanting him here is because of his past. I do believe he deserves a second chance, and Im happy that it looks like he has matured as a person (because even outside of the dog stuff, he was a ****ty human being while in Atlanta). But regardless of that, I still could not bring myself to cheer for him so I dont want him as a Bill. It may be borderline petty, but as someone who has rescued Pit Bulls, and as someone who will always have a rescued Pit in their house, I can barely look at that a-hole.

 

Good for him, I truly hope he has learned his lessons and will use that to succeed. But go do it on an NFC team we rarely play.

 

Edit: and EVERY Vick thread that is started here will come back to a moral debate because he made those decisions and will now be partly defined by those actions for the rest of his life.

 

Good response, I appreciate it. How do you feel about Braylon Edwards, getting a DUI and then after scoring his first touchdown just a few days later, doing a ridiculous dance? Difference between Vick and Edwards: Vick was humbled by his mistake, Edwards clearly was not. Although, of course I'd acknowledge that Vick's mistake was a bigger one.

[timba]

Fair response. I just want one person to say, damn I was wrong, he's playing great football right now. And to the guy who said he never played like this in Atlanta, he is wrong. As I stated, he finished second in MVP voting one year, he won a playoff game in Lambeau, I think he even took them to the NFC Championship game one year? The guy WAS this good and it amazes me how soon people forget.

 

 

 

It's hard to take your condescending response seriously when as a grown man (or woman), you still have not been able to ascertain when to use "your" vs. "you're."

 

I will concede that he's not who I thought he was, at least on the field. I just remember him being a running QB in Atlanta, but I didn't really watch him all that closely.

[34-78-83]

And to the guy who said he never played like this in Atlanta, he is wrong. As I stated, he finished second in MVP voting one year, he won a playoff game in Lambeau, I think he even took them to the NFC Championship game one year? The guy WAS this good and it amazes me how soon people forget.

 

 

 

Really, he wasn't ever this good at quarterbacking in ATL. Not wrong, sorry....He was a 1, maybe 2 read guy and would take off. His throwing technique is even a little better now but he's still a bit off in the accuracy department. He's admitted recently to Stephen A Smith that he never took film study seriously back at ATL and really let down his teammates by doing so. Now he studies film and has taken some of the advice he's received of late. But yeah, definitely not wrong about him being a sub par QB in ATL.

[DrDawkinstein]

Good response, I appreciate it. How do you feel about Braylon Edwards, getting a DUI and then after scoring his first touchdown just a few days later, doing a ridiculous dance? Difference between Vick and Edwards: Vick was humbled by his mistake, Edwards clearly was not. Although, of course I'd acknowledge that Vick's mistake was a bigger one.

 

Vick wasnt humbled by his mistake, he was humbled because he was caught, and then lost EVERYTHING. He lost over $100million. He lost everyone he thought were his friends. He even lost family as his mother testified against him. He BETTER be humbled. Yet, in that first interview with James Brown, he seemed like he was trying to act sorry for what he did with the dogs.

 

Edwards hasnt been punished in the least. Ohh, they sat him for the first series?!? As Joe Namath said, that's only punishing the team. He has no reason to feel like he's done anything wrong. And now the Jets organization is sticking up for him saying he was on antibiotics and that skewed the test. bull ****, it doesnt work like that.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

I will concede that he's not who I thought he was, at least on the field. I just remember him being a running QB in Atlanta, but I didn't really watch him all that closely.

 

 

Really, he wasn't ever this good at quarterbacking in ATL. Not wrong, sorry....He was a 1, maybe 2 read guy and would take off. His throwing technique is even a little better now but he's still a bit off in the accuracy department. He's admitted recently to Stephen A Smith that he never took film study seriously back at ATL and really let down his teammates by doing so. Now he studies film and has taken some of the advice he's received of late. But yeah, definitely not wrong about him being a sub par QB in ATL.

 

You are both right about the TYPE of QB he was down here. But he still was an elite athlete because of how well he could run. They built the team around that type of talent so that is why he/they were successful. Had they tried to put him in a pocket-passer situation, he wouldve been killed.

 

He (and Im sure Andy Reid) seem to have been able to help that passing come along, because he looks much better now than he ever did in Atlanta.

Edited September 27, 2010 by DrDankenstein

[NaPolian8693]

People, once, now and forever, if we talk about Michael Vick, who is in my opinion the MVP OF THE NFL thus far, can we please talk about his performance on the football field and if you want to start a dog lover's thread, then start a dog lover's thread

 

Hey guys, in the future whenever we talk about Hitler, can we please not talk about the Holocaust and instead just talk about his accomplishments as a political leader?

 

I mean, hey, what's done is done. Forgive and forget! Live and let live baby! Put a flower in your hair!

Edited September 27, 2010 by NaPolian8693

[metzelaars_lives]

Hey guys, in the future whenever we talk about Hitler, can we please not talk about the Holocaust and instead just talk about his accomplishments as a political leader?

 

I mean, hey, what's done is done. Forgive and forget! Live and let live baby! Put a flower in your hair!

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I couldn't have said it any better myself. Great contribution, thanks!

[DrDawkinstein]

Hey guys, in the future whenever we talk about Hitler, can we please not talk about the Holocaust and instead just talk about his accomplishments as a political leader?

 

I mean, hey, what's done is done. Forgive and forget! Live and let live baby! Put a flower in your hair!

 

Hitler's main problem was that he never got his second chance with another country. He shouldve signed on with Qatar after WW2. Had he been able to lead them to prosperity, we'd be arguing that he should be our President. Winning cures everything.

[metzelaars_lives]

Really, he wasn't ever this good at quarterbacking in ATL. Not wrong, sorry....He was a 1, maybe 2 read guy and would take off. His throwing technique is even a little better now but he's still a bit off in the accuracy department. He's admitted recently to Stephen A Smith that he never took film study seriously back at ATL and really let down his teammates by doing so. Now he studies film and has taken some of the advice he's received of late. But yeah, definitely not wrong about him being a sub par QB in ATL.

 

Three Pro Bowls, an MVP runner up and 900 & 1,000 yard rushing seasons is sub par? As Slater says to Mitch Kramer, "OK..."

[DrDawkinstein]

Three Pro Bowls, an MVP runner up and 900 & 1,000 yard rushing seasons is sub par? As Slater says to Mitch Kramer, "OK..."

 

if you are talking about a traditional QB position, like those that were played on 31 other teams at the time, yes he was Sub-Par. if it wasnt for his rushing ability, he wouldve been toast. he could not, or would not, throw back then. its that simple. what arent you understanding?

 

he was great and all, but they had to build a team completely around his style. look what happened the year he left, before they rebuilt. the reason he was successful is because they built around him. he was not a pure QB that could come onto any offense and succeed.

Edited September 27, 2010 by DrDankenstein

[34-78-83]

if you are talking about a traditional QB position, like those that were played on 31 other teams at the time, yes he was Sub-Par. if it wasnt for his rushing ability, he wouldve been toast. he could not, or would not, throw back then. its that simple. what arent you understanding?

 

he was great and all, but they had to build a team completely around his style. look what happened the year he left, before they rebuilt. the reason he was successful is because they built around him. he was not a pure QB that could come onto any offense and succeed.

 

Thank you

 

Not sure why that is so hard to understand