Peasants: should government be small, voluntary, and private?

[ExiledInIllinois]

And before Eric pipes in about Alaska, I would gladly vote to never accept A Federal nickel if they would give us back the 100+MILLION acres they have locked up in national parks, forever off the tax rolls.

 

 

Can you give us back the ALCAN.

 

Like I said... Now that AK has a leg up and that oil money is flowing... Typical "we don't need anyone" approach. Where were you in the late 1940's and 1950's when the ALCAN was upgraded. I got no problem reverting AK back to the 1920s'... Rip out all the infrastructure.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Initially, I mentioned more recent events such as the interstate highway system and TVA. My Alaskan reference was merely a tongue in cheek rebuttal to your implication that the state would be better off without federal funding.

 

So, again, how recent do we have to go? A week ago? Or just today?

 

The fact is, is that there have been alot of good things to come about in every state of the union due to federal funds and you can't just simply ignore all that today and say it no longer counts, tap out and be done with the system.

 

Of course he wants to forget it all! He's got his link to the world built off the backs of others and his revenue (natural resources), no kick everybody else to the curb!

[Rob's House]

How about all of them. Or are you suggesting that over the past 100 years there hasn't been trillions of dollars in Federal money delivered to every state to build the interstate highway system, provide for public schools, build dams for electricity, reservoirs for drinking water, and so on and so forth? States rely greatly on Federal money for just about everything they do.

 

It's nice to rail on the federal government and all their incompetency. It's nice to say that the states can do everything themselves. It's nice to say that you don't need anything from the government. But, the reality is that a strong federal government that's provided for all the various services that most everyone takes for granted is precisely what's allowed us all to live in the greatest country on the planet and not some 3rd world country of have's and have nots.

 

TVA, alone, changed the entire landscape of much of the south giving some of the poorest areas of the country (TN, AL, MS, WV, KY, GA, NC) electricity, improved farming, flood control, and increased commercial traffic. But, I guess all those states weren't helped at all by the federal government, which gets its money from all the states.

 

I don't mean to be cruel, but unless you're being sarcastic (forgive me if you are), this is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read. Conner has more enlightening comments at times.

 

To suggest that everything the Federal government "pays for" is progress and wouldn't exist otherwise is foolish. The public school system you mentioned is primarily provided for at the state and local level, as are most reservoirs for drinking water and so forth.

 

Additionally, where do the Feds get the money for these projects? From taxing the citizens of the states. Your assertion that TVA was some great improvement to the listed states only tells me that you swallowed everything your history teacher told you without question like a good soldier.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I don't mean to be cruel, but unless you're being sarcastic (forgive me if you are), this is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read. Conner has more enlightening comments at times.

 

To suggest that everything the Federal government "pays for" is progress and wouldn't exist otherwise is foolish. The public school system you mentioned is primarily provided for at the state and local level, as are most reservoirs for drinking water and so forth.

 

Additionally, where do the Feds get the money for these projects? From taxing the citizens of the states. Your assertion that TVA was some great improvement to the listed states only tells me that you swallowed everything your history teacher told you without question like a good soldier.

 

So you are saying that we would be better off withOUT the TVA and nothing built down there? Sure there are enviro issues both sides of the coin. But, you my friend are bigger fool if you think we (as states) would be better off if we turn the clock back to 1914.

[Rob's House]

So you are saying that we would be better off withOUT the TVA and nothing built down there? Sure there are enviro issues both sides of the coin. But, you my friend are bigger fool if you think we (as states) would be better off if we turn the clock back to 1914.

 

And welfare checks raise the poor to prosperity I suppose?

[Adam]

"relatively benevolent socialism"

 

What the !@#$ does that mean? I disagree wholly with this implication that socialism is anything but benevolent. I think the creator of this poll needs to learn that socialism is an entirely different entity (with different causes and different implications) than a dictator or a totalitarian government. I read into your statement that you think tyrannical governments and socialism are somehow correlated. I challenge this line of thinking as an entirely false assertion.

Socialism can be benevolent to a point, as can a monarchy or a theocracy. The problem is that power corrupts. And that corruption makes the leadership go from benevolent to malevolent. And that pattern exists in both the government and private sector. We can't trust the government or private sector- we can only trust ourselves

[Alaska Darin]

 

Can you give us back the ALCAN.

 

Like I said... Now that AK has a leg up and that oil money is flowing... Typical "we don't need anyone" approach. Where were you in the late 1940's and 1950's when the ALCAN was upgraded. I got no problem reverting AK back to the 1920s'... Rip out all the infrastructure.

Alaska doesn't have "a leg up" but don't let that stop you from continuing to put your foot in your mouth.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Alaska doesn't have "a leg up" but don't let that stop you from continuing to put your foot in your mouth.

 

Now back up your assertion. Of course libertarian hacks can't as usual.

[ExiledInIllinois]

And welfare checks raise the poor to prosperity I suppose?

 

No. Just keep them fed.

[Rob's House]

No. Just keep them fed.

 

...and in their place, where they are still dependent on government and can be counted on to help facilitate its expanse.

 

The same can be said of the TVA.

[Magox]

Now back up your assertion. Of course libertarian hacks can't as usual.

Exiled, that's not the way it works, if you were the one to make the claim, then the burden is on you to "back up your assertion".

[Alaska Darin]

Now back up your assertion.

You first. Your overused regurgitation of a pathetically simple data set doesn't even come close to reality.

Of course libertarian hacks can't as usual.

Go ahead and expound on this as well.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Exiled, that's not the way it works, if you were the one to make the claim, then the burden is on you to "back up your assertion".

 

I did. I mentioned specific things. He's claiming I am putting my foot in my mouth. Why shouldn't the fed now expect to reap the rewards of the AK's natural resources, the fed is the one that connected AK to the rest of the country/world. ??

[ExiledInIllinois]

You first. Your overused regurgitation of a pathetically simple data set doesn't even come close to reality.

 

Go ahead and expound on this as well.

 

I already did. Go back and read.

[Alaska Darin]

I already did. Go back and read.

No, you didn't and I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.

[Rob's House]

Ever notice how libs best example of effective big government is FDR. Let's take a glimpse at the record, shall we? The guy takes office in 1933 (don't tell Joe Biden) and within five years sees (for the only time in history) a deep depression on the heels of another deep depression. Finally, after over 10 years of decline after backing off the aggressive pursuit of economic interventionism and a world war, the economy recovers. And this is the best example they have.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Ever notice how libs best example of effective big government is FDR. Let's take a glimpse at the record, shall we? The guy takes office in 1933 (don't tell Joe Biden) and within five years sees (for the only time in history) a deep depression on the heels of another deep depression. Finally, after over 10 years of decline after backing off the aggressive pursuit of economic interventionism and a world war, the economy recovers. And this is the best example they have.

 

No. I just know how my parents/grandparents lived before and after the changes. Life was dramatically better after.

[ExiledInIllinois]

No, you didn't and I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.

 

 

Hey, that is your problem you align yourself with dolts.

[Magox]

Hey, that is your problem you align yourself with dolts.

 

That was actually kind of funny. Hey, wait a minute

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

That was actually kind of funny. Hey, wait a minute

No offense Mag... We may disagree, but you are pretty cool... You can actually get people to see your side of the argument. Sorry, you just happened to be collateral damage!

 

Yes... My arguments are pretty simple... But how much more simpler can it be than what Dan or I laid out. Go all the way back to the start of the thread... Like I said, there is no way the fed is going back knowing what they have invested, and rightly so!