How Many People Were Screaming For Whitehurst?

[Alphadawg7]

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

 

What a surprise, AJ Smith appears to have gotten the better end of the deal. Whitehurst is collecting 10 million over the next 2 or 3 years to be 3rd string, and it looks like this year it will be 3rd string behind Losman. That should tell you all something. I remember quite a few people wetting the bed around here over Charlie and, though it's early, he now doesn't appear able to fight off another Buffalo reject for the #2 job in Seattle. JP Losman > Charlie Whitehurst? Glad we didn't make that deal.

 

Several problems I have with this post...

 

1. What is the compulsion of fans on this board to label players busts because they jump to starter or pro bowl level instantly. I mean, Whitehurst is completely raw right now and on a new team learning a new system with no experience. Its no shock the veterans, especailly one as hungry as JP, appears more game ready right now. It in no way indicates that Whitehurst doesnt have a future.

 

2. Very few were clamoring for him as I remember it. Brohm has a higher ceiling than him, so why would we trade for a project when we already had a young unproven guy with potential already onthe roster for cheap.

 

3. JP is not as bad a player as he showed in Buffalo. The guy has loads of physical talent and lacked in the mental game here in Buffalo. But he was definitely not helped in grasping the mental part of the game with the last regime and was grossly mismanaged. So, its no surprise if he shows promise or beats out a guy who has never played a game in the NFL given he is in a situation with much better coaching, a real QB to learn from, and no pressure.

 

4. Sea obviously felt they saw something in him worthy of what they gave up for him...give him a chance to develop first.

[JohnC]

You're correct. However, there was a spurt of "Nix ain't gettin' 'er done" criticism when Whitehurst was traded. My guess is that came from the "usual suspects" who always believe every other team in the league is smarter, stronger, sharper, faster, better informed than the Bills front office.

 

There is always some commentary here on EVERY player who is POTENTIALLY availble, no matter what position the player plays. How many comments have been made about potential LTs who should be traded for? My point with regards to Whitehurst was simple: There was no clamor for him by the hometown fans. My other comment to the original poster is that it is very early in the process to make a fair assessment on a player, as he did with the traded qb.

 

What this Nix front office does well is not to overvalue and overpay for players who might be able to help us. I strongly suspect that this front office might add a few bargain players when rosters are cut or deal for players who are on the verge of being cut and are available at a bargain price.

[C.Biscuit97]

Several problems I have with this post...

 

1. What is the compulsion of fans on this board to label players busts because they jump to starter or pro bowl level instantly. I mean, Whitehurst is completely raw right now and on a new team learning a new system with no experience. Its no shock the veterans, especailly one as hungry as JP, appears more game ready right now. It in no way indicates that Whitehurst doesnt have a future.

 

2. Very few were clamoring for him as I remember it. Brohm has a higher ceiling than him, so why would we trade for a project when we already had a young unproven guy with potential already onthe roster for cheap.

 

3. JP is not as bad a player as he showed in Buffalo. The guy has loads of physical talent and lacked in the mental game here in Buffalo. But he was definitely not helped in grasping the mental part of the game with the last regime and was grossly mismanaged. So, its no surprise if he shows promise or beats out a guy who has never played a game in the NFL given he is in a situation with much better coaching, a real QB to learn from, and no pressure.

4. Sea obviously felt they saw something in him worthy of what they gave up for him...give him a chance to develop first.

 

 

Completely disagree. I just don't get the whole the coaches holding Losman back. IMO, his 2006 season was a complete fluke and the result of great coaching. Losman held the coaches back. He helped cost a great Oc in Mularkey his job, as well as very well respected coach in Sam Wyche.

 

Losman does have physical talent, but so do a lot of wash out NFL QBs. If you have talent, you don't go from being a 1st round pick to being out of the league in 5 years. Some tema would take a chance on you if they believe there was anything fraction of talent there. How many years did Joey Harrington hang around?

 

Quick Losman story: a girl who has a brother who is mentally retarded say JP out and asked him to sign a Bills' hat because her brother was a big fan of his when he was on the Bills. He signed his name and then wrote "Go Seahawks!" Not the worst thing in the world but the guy isn't the most mature guy on the planet either.

[JohnC]

You won't know if it is an upgrade at all until he performs as such, much less a "tremendous" upgrade. Don't be a bit surprised if he doesn't do a whole lot better than Russell did in Oakland, that is a disfunctional franchise, much like ours is and has been for years, with an owner that his useful days are in the past, way in the past.

 

I can say with absolute certitude that Jason Campbell will be a "tremendous" upgrade over JaMarcus Russell. Campbell will come into camp in shape, work and study hard and will be able to throw the ball into the Pacific Ocean when standing on shore, something that JR couldn't do.

[C.Biscuit97]

I can say with absolute certitude that Jason Campbell will be a "tremendous" upgrade over JaMarcus Russell. Campbell will come into camp in shape, work and study hard and will be able to throw the ball into the Pacific Ocean when standing on shore, something that JR couldn't do.

 

 

Additionally, the Redskins were as dysfunctional, if not more, when Campbell was there. Yet he got better every year.

[JohnC]

Additionally, the Redskins were as dysfunctional, if not more, when Campbell was there. Yet he got better every year.

 

Every year he played in college he had a different OC. Every year he played in the pros he had a different OC. His OL with the Skins last year was as bad as ours was. With the right system and a modicum of protection he will do a good job for the Faiders. He is a high character person who never pointed the finger when it would have been so easy for him to do. He is the type of person who you want to see succeed. The Raiders got a good player for virtually nothing.

[Rob's House]

I always get a chuckle when the "we should have gone for Jason Campbell" threads start. People who look at the stat sheet like Campbell. People who watch Redskins games know better. The guy can't come through in the clutch. He's great against prevent D when his team is down three scores, and he's not bad between the 20s, but he SUCKS in the red zone. Why in God's name would the Redskins drop a young, up and coming, ever improving QB for an injury prone old-guy?

 

 

On another note, Campbell gets the perpetual pass on his shortcomings because of the shuffling of O.C.s he's played under. I rarely hear the same considerations made for TE.

[C.Biscuit97]

I always get a chuckle when the "we should have gone for Jason Campbell" threads start. People who look at the stat sheet like Campbell. People who watch Redskins games know better. The guy can't come through in the clutch. He's great against prevent D when his team is down three scores, and he's not bad between the 20s, but he SUCKS in the red zone. Why in God's name would the Redskins drop a young, up and coming, ever improving QB for an injury prone old-guy?

 

 

On another note, Campbell gets the perpetual pass on his shortcomings because of the shuffling of O.C.s he's played under. I rarely hear the same considerations made for TE.

 

I like Trent but he regressed while Campbell improved. Our receiving core was better than theirs and our olines were equally as bad.

 

And I watched what Jason Campbell did against the Super Bowl champs Saints last year, in a game he should have won if not for a terrible field goal miss: http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/g...gs?id=CAM375235 Hard to argue with 367 passing and 3 tds against the SB champs and a very good secondary.

[nemhoff]

They were clowns. The guy we should have been after in the off season was Jason Campbell. End of story. The guy was by far the most statistically accomplished QB out there. He was a 3 year+ starter. His numbers improved every year. He was surrounded by a weak cast but still kept quite, was a company man and didn't get into trouble off field.

 

I'm glad to hear that about JP. We dumped him way to early for a ball less supposedly smart chump named Edwards.

 

How much time would you suggest that JP needed? He had ample time IMO, and could not prove himself...move on

[Rob's House]

I like Trent but he regressed while Campbell improved. Our receiving core was better than theirs and our olines were equally as bad.

 

And I watched what Jason Campbell did against the Super Bowl champs Saints last year, in a game he should have won if not for a terrible field goal miss: http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/g...gs?id=CAM375235 Hard to argue with 367 passing and 3 tds against the SB champs and a very good secondary.

 

The receivers and line may have been comparable, but the offensive schemes were not. As far as the stats go, he has shown some flashes, but I stand by my original comments.

[Alphadawg7]

Completely disagree. I just don't get the whole the coaches holding Losman back. IMO, his 2006 season was a complete fluke and the result of great coaching. Losman held the coaches back. He helped cost a great Oc in Mularkey his job, as well as very well respected coach in Sam Wyche.

 

Losman does have physical talent, but so do a lot of wash out NFL QBs. If you have talent, you don't go from being a 1st round pick to being out of the league in 5 years. Some tema would take a chance on you if they believe there was anything fraction of talent there. How many years did Joey Harrington hang around?

 

Quick Losman story: a girl who has a brother who is mentally retarded say JP out and asked him to sign a Bills' hat because her brother was a big fan of his when he was on the Bills. He signed his name and then wrote "Go Seahawks!" Not the worst thing in the world but the guy isn't the most mature guy on the planet either.

 

You took my statement way out of context. When I said he isnt as bad as Bills fans think, I literally mean just that. I am not implying that the guy is going to become some quality starter or pro bowler. My point is, Bills fans who dont like him seem to think he is about as bad as it gets and doesnt belong in the NFL.

 

I am not implying physical gifts are enough to get by. I am simply saying that the guy has enough physical talent that with some good coaching his game could show some improvement to be a back up or possibly push for a starting spot if he really improves. And no one gave him a serious look after Buffalo because he had just had a putrid showing for the Bills that year, as did Trent, in our putrid offense.

 

Bills fans like to exaggerate things to the extreme. My favorite part though is that players come into this league and are busts on teams that drafted them all the time and go on to find success elsewhere in better systems with better coaching. However, Bills fans seem to think it can never happen to one of our guys (even though it frequently does).

 

An example close to home from our rivals...Thomas Jones was a complete flop in his 3 years in AZ and one in TB before moving on to Chi where he found his groove and never looked back...most people forget what a bust he was his first 4 seasons and then went on to be one of the better backs in the league the rest of his career.

 

I am not saying JP will ever be anything great, but my original point is that he is better than the Bills fans who think he shouldnt even be in the NFL and its no surprise that after getting some better coaching with Fassel and now Sea that he is more game ready than some guy who has never played a game and is completely raw.

[Red Squirrel]

I always get a chuckle when the "we should have gone for Jason Campbell" threads start. People who look at the stat sheet like Campbell. People who watch Redskins games know better. The guy can't come through in the clutch. He's great against prevent D when his team is down three scores, and he's not bad between the 20s, but he SUCKS in the red zone. Why in God's name would the Redskins drop a young, up and coming, ever improving QB for an injury prone old-guy?

 

 

On another note, Campbell gets the perpetual pass on his shortcomings because of the shuffling of O.C.s he's played under. I rarely hear the same considerations made for TE.

 

You cannot be serious. This is one of MANY excuses made for TE. It might not be #1 on the list, but it's up there.

[mpl6876]

I was definitely on the Campbell bandwagon. He has improved every year in the league and I thought Gailey could use it well. However, I guess the Bills are really valuing draft picks and will take a look at what we have hear. I really believe they didn't like any of the top QBs in this year's draft and we looking forward to next year's class if our guys fail.

 

Biscuit I think your right. However, nobody really knows if next years draft is going to produce a franchise QB for the Bills. I think the front office has pretty much told us that they don't plan on winning this season because they haven't adequately addressed the QB and OL positions. I am not ok with this kinda thinking. Look at what Washington has done. Get there QB, winning super bowl coach, very good GM, two offensive linemen, etc..Not sure if they are going to get results but at least they are trying to win right now! We as fans of the Bills have to settle for "lets wait and see a few years down the road." That is crap and Ralph has alot to do with it...

[mpl6876]

The receivers and line may have been comparable, but the offensive schemes were not. As far as the stats go, he has shown some flashes, but I stand by my original comments.

 

Rob, I have to side with Biscuit on this one...

[Pilsner]

Biscuit I think your right. However, nobody really knows if next years draft is going to produce a franchise QB for the Bills. I think the front office has pretty much told us that they don't plan on winning this season because they haven't adequately addressed the QB and OL positions. I am not ok with this kinda thinking. Look at what Washington has done. Get there QB, winning super bowl coach, very good GM, two offensive linemen, etc..Not sure if they are going to get results but at least they are trying to win right now! We as fans of the Bills have to settle for "lets wait and see a few years down the road." That is crap and Ralph has alot to do with it...

 

 

Campbell definitely could have helped us. But i'm thinking that Nix and Gailey think Campbell has a certain ceiling that they would not be happy with. Perhaps Campbell would be a great backup for us. But i don't see him taking us all the way.

[mpl6876]

Campbell definitely could have helped us. But i'm thinking that Nix and Gailey think Campbell has a certain ceiling that they would not be happy with. Perhaps Campbell would be a great backup for us. But i don't see him taking us all the way.

 

I agree with you that Campbell isn't the QB to take us all the way. My point is/was that he could help us win now and make us more competitive. Heck, when is the last time our QB have thrown for over 300 plus yards? He did it against the Saints last year. He looked like a monster...No Bills QB has looked that good in years; even TE when he was on the win streak.

 

One last point, where is our QB of the future? Who is it? Lots of speculation and unanswered questions...At least with Campbell, you know you have a "decent QB with starting experience, toughness, ability to play in the elements, and has a big arm who can throw the ball downfield to Lee. That all equals more wins to me; rather than having TE, Fitz, Brohm, Levi, or the water boy at QB........

[Pilsner]

I agree with you that Campbell isn't the QB to take us all the way. My point is/was that he could help us win now and make us more competitive. Heck, when is the last time our QB have thrown for over 300 plus yards? He did it against the Saints last year. He looked like a monster...No Bills QB has looked that good in years; even TE when he was on the win streak.

 

One last point, where is our QB of the future? Who is it? Lots of speculation and unanswered questions...At least with Campbell, you know you have a "decent QB with starting experience, toughness, ability to play in the elements, and has a big arm who can throw the ball downfield to Lee. That all equals more wins to me; rather than having TE, Fitz, Brohm, Levi, or the water boy at QB........

 

 

I know mpl. I want us to win now also. But more importantly i want us to win consistently and long term. I think honestly deep down to my core i would ALWAYS go for the QB who i would take a chance on to develop and take us all the way more than just one year. Multiple years. Instead of settling for one average qb who might take us all the way for one year. Screw one year.

 

We had 4 chances. If we win it once i don't ever EVER want the naysayers telling us we coulda won it more than that. I want us doing what it takes to draft and develop to win multiple times. Screw the one year wonder Bills. I want us Winning Consecutive Championships and i want us doing what it takes to do so. Consistent drafting and development of players.

 

I'm not a fan of just winning one Championship. I'm here for the long haul. I want us to win many SB's. To Finally Shut up the people who ever laughed at the Bills.

 

I live in Cali, Am i the ONLY one who thinks this way??

 

No matter how much i may disagree with you sumtimes mpl or others, i am glad you are all here to support the Bills.

 

Go Bills!!!

[mpl6876]

I know mpl. I want us to win now also. But more importantly i want us to win consistently and long term. I think honestly deep down to my core i would ALWAYS go for the QB who i would take a chance on to develop and take us all the way more than just one year. Multiple years. Instead of settling for one average qb who might take us all the way for one year. Screw one year.

 

We had 4 chances. If we win it once i don't ever EVER want the naysayers telling us we coulda won it more than that. I want us doing what it takes to draft and develop to win multiple times. Screw the one year wonder Bills. I want us Winning Consecutive Championships and i want us doing what it takes to do so. Consistent drafting and development of players.

 

I'm not a fan of just winning one Championship. I'm here for the long haul. I want us to win many SB's. To Finally Shut up the people who ever laughed at the Bills.

 

I live in Cali, Am i the ONLY one who thinks this way??

 

No matter how much i may disagree with you sumtimes mpl or others, i am glad you are all here to support the Bills.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

Thanks for the response. I am in San Diego and believe it or not we do have some Bills fans here. I want to win lots and lots of super bowls too. Right now, I would be happy with one and take it from there. Still have nightmares about "wide right." That was the super bowl we should have won. Hands down we were the better team. The two cowboy losses I can live with because that team was really good. The Washington loss kinda hurts too. There OL was one the best I can remember.

[C.Biscuit97]

Thanks for the response. I am in San Diego and believe it or not we do have some Bills fans here. I want to win lots and lots of super bowls too. Right now, I would be happy with one and take it from there. Still have nightmares about "wide right." That was the super bowl we should have won. Hands down we were the better team. The two cowboy losses I can live with because that team was really good. The Washington loss kinda hurts too. There OL was one the best I can remember.

 

 

I think in a weird way, if we actually won a SB, it'd kinda change things. I know Red Sox fans and while they were happy they won it, the games aren't as special anymore. It like finally hooking with the girl you've been in love with forever. The first time is amazing but it will never feel as special again thought. Next thing you know, you're married with 5 kids and go months without relations.

[Hossage]

mpl=troll