ESPN Captain Checkdown Article

[PDaDdy]

Unless you lived under a rock last year or are a family member we all knew that Trent didn't have the arm or the stones to throw the ball down field. ESPN has confirmed what we already knew. Trent threw just over 1% of his passes over 40yds in the air and 25% of his passes BEHIND the line of scrimmage.

 

Don't give me the BS about the short passing game can work, and there are a tiny handful of weak armed QBs that have had success in this league blah blah blah. Without the threat of the deep pass the short game gets crushed. I hope that Gailey gets this concept. Personally I was tired of watching passes out to the RBs in the flat and defenders being on them before the ball even got there. WHY? Because they knew that Trent couldn't go deep effectively.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...kick-in-spiller

[San Jose Bills Fan]

More significant than this subject, which we've already beaten to death…is that the article is by Tim Graham.

 

I wonder when Leonidas will be posting.

[Lori]

Actually, this is a new subject -- Matt Williamson's take on how Spiller will help Edwards (or whoever the Bills QB ends up being). You can't tell by the original post, which never even mentions No. 21, but the title of the story is "Captain Checkdown has sidekick in Spiller."

[PDaDdy]

I did not notice who it was posted by. To me what is important is the statistical proof of what we have been claiming for a long time. I wonder if this statistical proof will be enough to finally sway the supporters that did not believe that Trent was actually this bad. Everything about him that some have pointed to as a positive when really analyzed is a negative, especially things like his completion percentage.

[DarthICE]

Agreed lori but mainly it is about how horrible Trent is. I really hope this clown isn't QB this year. I will find it hard to watch a game till he is hurt or benched....again....

[Lori]

"I'm not excusing Edwards in any way, nor am I in his corner," Williamson said, "but it is awfully tough to go deep downfield when the protection is so poor."

[Tortured Soul]

Unless you lived under a rock last year or are a family member we all knew that Trent didn't have the arm or the stones to throw the ball down field. ESPN has confirmed what we already knew. Trent threw just over 1% of his passes over 40yds in the air and 25% of his passes BEHIND the line of scrimmage.

 

What about the fact that he never had any time behind the line? Can we give you that "BS"?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I did not notice who it was posted by. To me what is important is the statistical proof of what we have been claiming for a long time. I wonder if this statistical proof will be enough to finally sway the supporters that did not believe that Trent was actually this bad. Everything about him that some have pointed to as a positive when really analyzed is a negative, especially things like his completion percentage.

That part (statistics) is also weak. It appears to backup the criticisms of Edwards (which I agree with), but the statistics are very nearly meaningless because HIS STATS ARE NOT COMPARED TO OTHER QBs STATS.

 

As far as what Lori says about this article being a new angle (Edwards+Spiller), perhaps so, but not groundbreaking stuff. I think probably everyone here has wrote or thought about the Edwards/Spiller implications.

 

I still think the most significant thing about the post is none of the above. Forgive me.

[Lurker]

Unless you lived under a rock last year

...you know this is old news to Bills fans. Big whoop.

[DC Grid]

At this point, I think we can all agree that Trent Edwards is the greatest Bills QB ever, and anyone who has a problem with that clearly hates America and freedom.

[PDaDdy]

Actually, this is a new subject -- Matt Williamson's take on how Spiller will help Edwards (or whoever the Bills QB ends up being). You can't tell by the original post, which never even mentions No. 21, but the title of the story is "Captain Checkdown has sidekick in Spiller."

 

Spiller will be able to help this team immensly if the current adminitration makes a complete break from the past. I love Freddy and Marshawn but they should be a compliment to Spiller not the other way around. This guy is TOO talented to worry about hurting their feelings. I sort of hate the comparison but this guy can be the next Chris Johnson which makes this pick an out of the park home run OR he can just be Reggie Bush who can hopefully stay healthier still making him a great pick.

 

That being said Spiller can only make Trent marginally better. Due to his speed and elusiveness he MAY be able to break one of Trent's typically too late screen/checkdown passes for extra yardage or possibly to the house. But who cares? Me? I say why bother. Let's start talking about getting the best QB on field with our star RB in waiting instead of talking about how our star RB in waiting can make an ineffective QB marginally better?

[PDaDdy]

What about the fact that he never had any time behind the line? Can we give you that "BS"?

 

 

You can try. I wish I had my old signature which was a quote from Jim Kelly about Edwards. It spoke to the real issue of lack of opportunity but also was VERY clear in saying that inspite of that those opportunities were there and EDWARDS just didn't capitalize. Can you tell me how Fitz was able to attempt deep passes behind the exact same line????? In fact as the year progressed we had fewer starters than week 1 on the Oline due to injury and somehow Fitz had time? What "BS" do you have to explain that away?

 

I have nothing to back this up and I could be completely wrong but I would be willing to bet that Brohm probably attempted more passes over 40yds in the air in one game than Trent did for a half a season.

[muffmonster]

What about the fact that he never had any time behind the line? Can we give you that "BS"?

 

Fitz didn't seem to have any issues getting the ball down the field, to the sidelines, and to targets other then the RB. Granted they were ugly, but he was able to throw the ball and avoid sacks. So we can blame the Oline to an extent but it still comes back to Edwards refusal or inability to do much of anything besides checkdown or get sacked.

[PDaDdy]

Fitz didn't seem to have any issues getting the ball down the field, to the sidelines, and to targets other then the RB. Granted they were ugly, but he was able to throw the ball and avoid sacks. So we can blame the Oline to an extent but it still comes back to Edwards refusal or inability to do much of anything besides checkdown or get sacked.

 

 

Great minds LOL.

[JasoninMT]

Questions raised by this article -

 

If Spiller is going to be help as a receiver out of the backfield... That helps any QB, not just Edwards. Is Edwards somehow better suited to throw Checkdowns than other QBs on the roster?

 

Is the lack of downfield throws due to protection? Was it due to Owens/Evans not being open? Was it due to him being weak armed? This question can be answered in camp. Give him no pressure from the defense and see if he can accurately throw the deep ball - but have the DB's out there. If he can do it, then it could be protection - or it could be mental (perhaps all the abuse he took in college combined w/ that in Buffalo has made him gun shy?)

 

I leave it to Gailey & company to figure this thing out. We showed Fred Jackson was fairly effective in the Wildcat last year (at least as my weak memory recall he threw a bomb). So, maybe that's a change of pace to keep a defense honest... Also, using Spiller out of the backfield in the slot/motion ought to help too. No matter what though... it always comes back to the O-Line... If they can't be effective, nothing else will be effective.

[muffmonster]

Great minds LOL.

 

Lol yah it is kind of a canned response anymore, we have been beating this dead horse named Edwards since early season last year. The fact he appears to be the front runner for our QB utterly blows my mind. Just have to wait and see, maybe Chan will find a set for Edwards and he'll improve, but I doubt that.

[San-O]

"The Elias Sports Bureau tracks every play, and it credited Edwards with only two pass attempts that traveled more than 40 yards in the air and 21 that traveled farther than 20 yards. "

 

 

Wow. Seriously. I didn't think this was even possible for a Pro team.

 

[Lori]

I have nothing to back this up and I could be completely wrong but I would be willing to bet that Brohm probably attempted more passes over 40yds in the air in one game than Trent did for a half a season.

Now that one crosses the line into hyperbole, IMO, but I'll check.

 

And don't take this as me defending Edwards, please. He lost his job to Fitz on merit -- and considering that when RF was signed, most of us figured it was expressly because he WOULDN'T pose a threat to TE, that's not good.

 

I don't have that link open anymore. Tim (or Williamson) did say two 40+ throws for the year, correct? (Hmmm, that's setting the bar an inch above sea level for Brohm. Maybe you're right after all. Be right back.)

 

------------------------------------------------------

OK. This link might be password-protected; lemme know if it is: http://www.nflgsis.com/2009/Reg/16/54692/PlayStats.pdf

 

Brohm was 17-of-29 in that game. Interestingly, only four of those passes traveled over 10 yards past the line of scrimmage: 47-yd INT, 32 and 19-yd incompletions, and a 14-yd completion to Evans (who added 1 YAC). On the other hand, nine of his passes were targeted at or behind the LOS.

 

So, one game, one 40+ (to the wrong team) and a bunch of dumpoffs for Brohm. The contrast with TE might have been more apparent with Fitz. Still and all, I'm in the camp that's curious to see how Brohm does with a full training camp.

 

To be honest, Edwards too, in a different system. I'm not ready to absolve Jauron of responsibility for last season's cluster.....

[C.Biscuit97]

Agreed lori but mainly it is about how horrible Trent is. I really hope this clown isn't QB this year. I will find it hard to watch a game till he is hurt or benched....again....

 

 

Stop overstating things. I'm ready to turn the page on Edwards but it's mainly because of the injuries. Checkdowns are an important of the game and are valuable. Edwards jsut doesn't have enough gunslinger in here.

 

But it's so funny how people just try and kill Edards. He was a 3rd round pick who was suppose to back up a 1st rounder. If Losman doesn't fail so miserably, Edwards probably would have started a few games and had Matt Schaub like trade value. At worst case, he could have been a really good backup QB like Frank Reich (who was a 3rd rounder as well). Edwards takes way too much heat.

[C.Biscuit97]

Lol yah it is kind of a canned response anymore, we have been beating this dead horse named Edwards since early season last year. The fact he appears to be the front runner for our QB utterly blows my mind. Just have to wait and see, maybe Chan will find a set for Edwards and he'll improve, but I doubt that.

 

 

So you were rooting for the Bills' starting QB to fail so you can been proven right on a message board? Wow, you must feel awesome now!!!