Quick to rip TE and Trade for Campbell????

[muffmonster]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZypDzW81-c...feature=related

 

I cannot believe the same guys that want to trash Trent Edwards want to bring in Campbell...ridiculous....

 

Haha nice try....as stated all over this thread Campbell put up decent stats last year, and has improved his play every year. The kid can take a hit as well, unlike glass jaw trent.

 

It is a sad state when Campbell seems like our savior only because he is better then what we have.

[oak tree 12]

The Skins had a worse oline ( http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go ) and receiving core than us, yet he improved in every category.

 

For a 4th round pick, he would be a good investment.

 

no one had a worse ine than ours last year. the first 2 games last year before we became decimated by injuries trent looked very good . then he and the line got knocked out.

 

two years ago when we were 5 and 1 trent was the hottest QB in the league then he got knocked out again because someone missed an assignment.

 

with our 3 young studs in the middle and with our new free agent RT if we get one of the 4 top LT's in this draft we could be looking @ a very successful entertaining year!

 

lastly galiey knows how to coach up QB's and most importently how to score points,i'm as excited as hell provided we get @ LT!

[PDaDdy]

"Checking down" is not, inherently, a bad thing for an NFL QB. It is knowing when to check down, and when you can take a chance and throw the ball down field. I would be okay with giving Trent Edwards another crack at the starting job, but I do think, at this point in their respective careers, Campbell is a better QB. I would move on him, if the price was right (4th or later, maybe a third, if there were some other aspects to the trade)...

 

The idea of Edwards "breaking out" of his malaise and returning to the promising form he had early on, appeals to me more, than watching Ryan Fitzpatrick for another season.

 

I don't hate Fitzpatrick, and I think he we would be a nice back-up, but I also think he throws some of the worst passes I have ever seen by a starting NFL QB. He has a nice mental grasp of the game, however, which gives him some value. I think Edwards displayed much of that early on, as well, but, as has been well hashed and re-hashed over here the last year, he lost something. I am willing to be that he lost his confidence in himself, as a result of a very inept coaching staff.

 

I wasn't excited about the Chan Gailey hire, but it is growing on me. If he lives up to his reputation as a great coach for quarterbacks, I think Edwards could still turn into a serviceable NFL QB. A lot of "ifs" I know, but, that is mostly what we have to hang our hopes on, as Bills fans...an awful lot of things have to go right, for the Bills to make us smile again.

 

The Checkdown problem with Trent is that that is his first and pretty much only choice. Everyone likes to point to the importance of the QB and the success of the team. The QBs that have success throw down field. They do so with arm strength, balls and more importantly completions. The same cannot be said of Trent.

[B Rob]

I don't know how you can get a real opinion of either QB. Both have had Mickey Mouse running their offenses for the past couple of years.

[thewildrabbit]

For the life of me, rabbit, I'll never understand why you believe it's prudent to judge OL play on experience rather than actual performance.that you repeatedly state: "experience = good play"

 

while making OL excuses for our crop of piss-poor QBs, is completely beyond my ability to comprehend.

You have various problems with comprehension I see...

 

If you bothered to read and understand everything in my post you would have read:"quote"

Last seasons Buffalo Bills O line had to be the worst line in the history of the team due to lack of experience, lack of good coaching on protections and the amount of injuries. I suppose you missed the part about coaching-protections-injuries. Must be your inability to comprehend.

 

Last years Bills O line was a revolving door at every position except the center who played 16 games, he took 983 snaps and was rated 27th out of 34 players.

 

T Demetrius Bell rated 74 out of 77 players and took 472 snaps.

T Jonathan Scott rated 59 out of 77 players and took 489 snaps.

T Kirk Chambers rated 56 out of 77 players and took 588 snaps.

G Andy Levitre rated 74th out of 84 players and took 852 snaps

G Eric Wood rated 65th out of 74 players and took 613 snaps. went on IR

 

Week 1: starters are Bell LT-Levitre LG-Hangartner C-Wood RG- Butler RT

 

Week 2: same as week one

 

Week 3: T Brad Butler started the first 2 games at RT and then was replaced by Jonathan Scott

 

Week 4: Bell out-Jonathan Scott moved to LT and Kirk Chambers to RT

 

Week 5: Bell back at LT-Jonathan Scott RT

 

Week 6: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 7: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 8: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 9: bye week

 

Week 10:Kirk Chambers starts at RT replacing Jamon Meredith

 

Week 11: Bell out-Levitre moved to LT / Seth McKinney starts at LG

 

Week 12: Scott moved to LT-Kendall Simmons replacing Wood at G

 

Week 13:same as last week -Scott LT-Levitre LG-Hangartner C-Simmons RG-Chambers RT

 

Week 14:same as last week

 

Week 15: Simmons replaced at RG by Richie Incognito

 

Week 16: same as last week

 

Week 17:Jamon Meredith starting at LT replacing Scott

 

Looking at the changes to the offensive line almost every week... can you now start to comprehend the O lines inability to gain any sort of continuity? The inability to properly protect any QB.

 

Do you still doubt the fact that the Buffalo Bills were the worst O line in the NFL last season with 10 different starters and 9 different line changes?

[C.Biscuit97]

no one had a worse ine than ours last year. the first 2 games last year before we became decimated by injuries trent looked very good . then he and the line got knocked out.

 

two years ago when we were 5 and 1 trent was the hottest QB in the league then he got knocked out again because someone missed an assignment.

 

with our 3 young studs in the middle and with our new free agent RT if we get one of the 4 top LT's in this draft we could be looking @ a very successful entertaining year!

 

lastly galiey knows how to coach up QB's and most importently how to score points,i'm as excited as hell provided we get @ LT!

 

 

The Redskins started Mike Williams!!! They had a terrible oline.

[PDaDdy]

Trent's arm strength is fine...not Elway like, but fine. It is the mental thing ("wussy mentality" you call it) that he needs to overcome.

 

 

ANNNNNNNNHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Trent has a noddle arm. I don't know if it is the worst in the league for starters but I do know that it is NOT strong. The top gun QBs have strong arms. This is especially important out doors in Buffalo.

[C.Biscuit97]

ANNNNNNNNHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Trent has a noddle arm. I don't know if it is the worst in the league for starters but I do know that it is NOT strong. The top gun QBs have strong arms. This is especially important out doors in Buffalo.

 

 

I can't stand this noodle arm crap. His arm is fine. How many times did he over throw a receiver last year?

[thewildrabbit]

And how you can possibly call the Redskins' losses a result of poor QB play (from a guy that threw for over 3,000 yards and 20+ TDs, and boasted an almost identical stat line to future HOFer Kurt Warner), while making OL excuses for our crop of piss-poor QBs, is completely beyond my ability to comprehend.

If Campbell is so good... then why do the Redskins want to dump him, after all he had an almost identical stat line to future HoFer Kurt Warner

 

According to the precious stats, Campbell was the 14th rated QB last year and McNabb was 17th... so why would the Redskins trade for a QB with worse stats then the one they have?

 

Did you actually watch the first video, the one where Charlie Casserly talks about Campbell's problems with being indecisive and miss-reading wide open receivers? Or did you simply feel like badgering me because I'm defending the Bills QB's because of the poor O line play?

 

Seems to me that Chan Gailey will have his work cut out for him coaching up the current Bills QB's without wasting draft picks on other players who have some of the same problems.

[C.Biscuit97]

If Campbell is so good... then why do the Redskins want to dump him, after all he had an almost identical stat line to future HoFer Kurt Warner

 

According to the precious stats, Campbell was the 14th rated QB last year and McNabb was 17th... so why would the Redskins trade for a QB with worse stats then the one they have?

 

Did you actually watch the first video, the one where Charlie Casserly talks about Campbell's problems with being indecisive and miss-reading wide open receivers? Or did you simply feel like badgering me because I'm defending the Bills QB's because of the poor O line play?

 

Seems to me that Chan Gailey will have his work cut out for him coaching up the current Bills QB's without wasting draft picks on other players who have some of the same problems.

 

 

Almost every new coach, especially an offensive one, wants their own QB. McNabb is better than Campbell at this point and now they have a chance to draft a potentially great LT. Before they did acquired McNabb, they thought enough of Campbell to put a 1st round tender on him, killing any potential trades.

 

The Skins tried as hard as they could to kill Campbell's development. Yet ulike Losman and Edwards, he improved every year. He would be a steal for a 4th rounder.

[BobbyC81]

with our 3 young studs in the middle and with our new free agent RT if we get one of the 4 top LT's in this draft we could be looking @ a very successful entertaining year!

 

You consider "Humdinger" a stud at center?? I still think they need a center. They should consider Wood there, especially if he is slow to recover from his injury. He'd have less running around to do.

[C.Biscuit97]

You consider "Humdinger" a stud at center?? I still think they need a center. They should consider Wood there, especially if he is slow to recover from his injury. He'd have less running around to do.

 

 

He played next to 2 rookies and a guy who had to start who went brought in mid week (Incognito). Based on that, it is really hard to judge Hang man. He deserves another year playing next to more experienced players since we have much bigger fish to fry than drafting a center this year.

[thewildrabbit]

He played next to 2 rookies and a guy who had to start who went brought in mid week (Incognito). Based on that, it is really hard to judge Hang man. He deserves another year playing next to more experienced players since we have much bigger fish to fry than drafting a center this year.

The center play was pretty bad last year, even so...

 

Kinda exactly why its hard to judge the QB's play on a team where the entire offense is so horrid, no QB on earth could have played up to their abilities.

 

Let Chan the man do his stuff and see what shakes out, if the QB's all play as poorly this season as they did last season with improvements in coaching, scheme, players... then there is no doubt changes will be made.

[Red Squirrel]

no one had a worse ine than ours last year. the first 2 games last year before we became decimated by injuries trent looked very good . then he and the line got knocked out.

 

two years ago when we were 5 and 1 trent was the hottest QB in the league then he got knocked out again because someone missed an assignment.

 

with our 3 young studs in the middle and with our new free agent RT if we get one of the 4 top LT's in this draft we could be looking @ a very successful entertaining year!

 

lastly galiey knows how to coach up QB's and most importently how to score points,i'm as excited as hell provided we get @ LT!

 

Here we go again; Trent got hurt in week 5, NOT after they went 5 and 1. The best game he has ever had was AFTER he came back from the injury. And it is hard to make a claim that he was the hottest QB in the league when you factor in that the 1st 4 wins were against teams that finished the year a combined 16-48.

 

Facts are important, folks. It is getting really old correcting these same mistakes.

[Clippers of Nfl]

checking down is not his problem.

 

te plays without confidence.

te does not shake the nerves off. plays nervous and it shows!

[Maddog69]

I can't stand this noodle arm crap. His arm is fine. How many times did he over throw a receiver last year?

 

I don't know, but they must have been standing very close to him if Captain Checkdown overthrew them.

[thebandit27]

You have various problems with comprehension I see...

 

If you bothered to read and understand everything in my post you would have read:"quote"

Last seasons Buffalo Bills O line had to be the worst line in the history of the team due to lack of experience, lack of good coaching on protections and the amount of injuries. I suppose you missed the part about coaching-protections-injuries. Must be your inability to comprehend.

 

Last years Bills O line was a revolving door at every position except the center who played 16 games, he took 983 snaps and was rated 27th out of 34 players.

 

T Demetrius Bell rated 74 out of 77 players and took 472 snaps.

T Jonathan Scott rated 59 out of 77 players and took 489 snaps.

T Kirk Chambers rated 56 out of 77 players and took 588 snaps.

G Andy Levitre rated 74th out of 84 players and took 852 snaps

G Eric Wood rated 65th out of 74 players and took 613 snaps. went on IR

 

Week 1: starters are Bell LT-Levitre LG-Hangartner C-Wood RG- Butler RT

 

Week 2: same as week one

 

Week 3: T Brad Butler started the first 2 games at RT and then was replaced by Jonathan Scott

 

Week 4: Bell out-Jonathan Scott moved to LT and Kirk Chambers to RT

 

Week 5: Bell back at LT-Jonathan Scott RT

 

Week 6: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 7: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 8: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 9: bye week

 

Week 10:Kirk Chambers starts at RT replacing Jamon Meredith

 

Week 11: Bell out-Levitre moved to LT / Seth McKinney starts at LG

 

Week 12: Scott moved to LT-Kendall Simmons replacing Wood at G

 

Week 13:same as last week -Scott LT-Levitre LG-Hangartner C-Simmons RG-Chambers RT

 

Week 14:same as last week

 

Week 15: Simmons replaced at RG by Richie Incognito

 

Week 16: same as last week

 

Week 17:Jamon Meredith starting at LT replacing Scott

 

Looking at the changes to the offensive line almost every week... can you now start to comprehend the O lines inability to gain any sort of continuity? The inability to properly protect any QB.

 

Do you still doubt the fact that the Buffalo Bills were the worst O line in the NFL last season with 10 different starters and 9 different line changes?

 

I like how you responded...I always find it amusing when people question others' reading comprehension in response to someone questioning their opinion It's worth noting, however, that insulting me won't make your ill-conceived point any more true.

 

You can trumpet every injury stat in the book, and talk all you want about coaching, protections, etc. (none of which you have a modicum of understanding thereto, since you [i assume] are neither an NFL coach nor player), it doesn't change the fact that the Redskins OL performed no better than Buffalo's; a fact that you somehow continue to refuse to acknowledge. Experience and injuries are not the same thing as performance. And you think I'm the guy that struggles with comprehension? Your inability to understand a concept as simple as "performance" vs. "experience" is laughable. Can you point to anything, absolutely anything (aside from injury, which for the 6,743rd time, is not a measure of performance), that would indicate that Washington's line performed measurably better than Buffalo's, let alone prove that their better play is responsible for Jason Campbell's far superior stat line to that of Buffalo's QBs? Since, you know, Washington's losses had nothing to do with their thewildrabbit-certified stellar line and everything to do with their lousy QB play.

 

Since we're comparing OL stats from profootballfocus.com, how about Washington's awesome line:

 

T Levi Jones rated 75 out of 77 players (behind D. Bell) and took 527 snaps.

T Stephon Hayer rated 71 out of 77 players (behind J. Scott) and took 974 snaps.

G Derrick Dockery rated 24 out of 84 players and took 1,026 snaps (by far their best lineman)

G Mike Williams did not even make the list out of 84 guards evaluated, so I'm not sure what that says

C Casey Rabach ranked 25 out of 34 players (2 ahead of Hangartner) and took 1,026 snaps

 

Phew, much better line than Buffalo's!

 

Let me sum this up for you, in very clear, concise form, so that we're on the same page, and then you can gather your thoughts and make a (hopefully) intelligent, persuasive argument as to why you think Washington's line performed better than Buffalo's, despite all statistical and actual evidence to the contrary:

 

1) I understand that Buffalo's line play was awful last year

2) I understand that Buffalo's line suffered many injuries last year

3) I understand that injuries make continuity difficult, and thus injuries affect the quality of play from the line

4) I understand that Washington had fewer injuries and better coaching

 

Now that I've cleared up your misconception that our disagreement here is not based on the fallacy that I dont understand your point, here are the areas that you need to address if we're going to continue to discuss this topic, since you have repeatedly avoided them like the plague:

 

Do you understand that the performance of the two lines was nearly identical, despite the disparity in injuries, personnel, coaching, schemes, etc.?

 

Do you further understand that performance, not injury is what matters in pro sports (i.e. there is no win/loss column based on injuries, wins and losses are awarded based on points score vs. your opponent, which is a result of performance, not staying healthy; points scored with backups in the game count the same as points scored with starters)?

 

Do you understand that your position on Campbell, Washington's OL, and the general relationship between OL and QB play is dubious at best, based on practically all discernable evaluation criteria?

 

Lastly, do you still believe that Washington's losses were resultant from QB play, when all discernable evidence would show that Campbell performed well despite poor OL play?

[grelit]

You have various problems with comprehension I see...

 

If you bothered to read and understand everything in my post you would have read:"quote"

Last seasons Buffalo Bills O line had to be the worst line in the history of the team due to lack of experience, lack of good coaching on protections and the amount of injuries. I suppose you missed the part about coaching-protections-injuries. Must be your inability to comprehend.

 

Last years Bills O line was a revolving door at every position except the center who played 16 games, he took 983 snaps and was rated 27th out of 34 players.

 

T Demetrius Bell rated 74 out of 77 players and took 472 snaps.

T Jonathan Scott rated 59 out of 77 players and took 489 snaps.

T Kirk Chambers rated 56 out of 77 players and took 588 snaps.

G Andy Levitre rated 74th out of 84 players and took 852 snaps

G Eric Wood rated 65th out of 74 players and took 613 snaps. went on IR

 

Week 1: starters are Bell LT-Levitre LG-Hangartner C-Wood RG- Butler RT

 

Week 2: same as week one

 

Week 3: T Brad Butler started the first 2 games at RT and then was replaced by Jonathan Scott

 

Week 4: Bell out-Jonathan Scott moved to LT and Kirk Chambers to RT

 

Week 5: Bell back at LT-Jonathan Scott RT

 

Week 6: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 7: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 8: Scott out and Jamon Meredith at RT

 

Week 9: bye week

 

Week 10:Kirk Chambers starts at RT replacing Jamon Meredith

 

Week 11: Bell out-Levitre moved to LT / Seth McKinney starts at LG

 

Week 12: Scott moved to LT-Kendall Simmons replacing Wood at G

 

Week 13:same as last week -Scott LT-Levitre LG-Hangartner C-Simmons RG-Chambers RT

 

Week 14:same as last week

 

Week 15: Simmons replaced at RG by Richie Incognito

 

Week 16: same as last week

 

Week 17:Jamon Meredith starting at LT replacing Scott

 

Looking at the changes to the offensive line almost every week... can you now start to comprehend the O lines inability to gain any sort of continuity? The inability to properly protect any QB.

 

Do you still doubt the fact that the Buffalo Bills were the worst O line in the NFL last season with 10 different starters and 9 different line changes?

 

I know all this and also a QB that sucks, how depressing.

[grelit]

The Redskins started Mike Williams!!! They had a terrible oline.

 

 

Mike Williams and Derrick Dockery a guy that was'nt good enough to stick with Buffalo.

[thebandit27]

If Campbell is so good... then why do the Redskins want to dump him, after all he had an almost identical stat line to future HoFer Kurt Warner

 

According to the precious stats, Campbell was the 14th rated QB last year and McNabb was 17th... so why would the Redskins trade for a QB with worse stats then the one they have?

 

Did you actually watch the first video, the one where Charlie Casserly talks about Campbell's problems with being indecisive and miss-reading wide open receivers? Or did you simply feel like badgering me because I'm defending the Bills QB's because of the poor O line play?

 

Seems to me that Chan Gailey will have his work cut out for him coaching up the current Bills QB's without wasting draft picks on other players who have some of the same problems.

 

I don't remember saying that Campbell is "so good", so I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think that (other than that it gives you a platform on which to banter, which is fine with me).

 

What I said was that I don't understand how you can possibly blame Campbell, a QB with an almost identical stat line to Kurt Warner, for the Redskins problems (and insodoing virtually absolve Washington's OL) and then turn around and make the complete, total, and opposite evaluation of Buffalo's situation, which showed a QB situation that performed much worse than Washington's given similar line play.

 

And regarding the trade, I don't know what stats you're reading, but you may want to look again. McNabb was 17th in passing yards to Campbell's 14th (the difference was a whole 80 yards, by the way), but McNabb was the 12th highest rated QB (by QB rating, of course) to Campbell's 15th. McNabb's YPA was 8.0, which ranked 7th in the league; Campbell's was 7.1, which ranked 15th. McNabb threw for 253.8 yards/game, ranking 10th in the NFL; Campbell threw for 226.1 yards/game, ranking 16th. So, according to the "precious stats", McNabb was one of the top 10 to 12 QBs in the NFL, while Campbell was right about in the middle. If you can't understand why a new coach and GM would trade for a 10-year veteran QB with Superbowl experience, who still performs (there's that word again) like a top 10 QB, when your team already has a top 5 defense, then I'm afraid this discussion has ventured beyond the scope of your understanding.