GOBILLS78 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 When Schobel wasn't in there, Stroud was the ONLY good player on the D-line...the switch to 3-4 and the signings and possible drafting of better players should make Stroud perform better in my opinion. Assuming he plays DE, he will have Davis/Kawika/Poz/other behind him with Williams, Edwards, draft pick next to him... I just want to say I like your avatar. I don't rate anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEIZALNUNCIO Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 THE BILLS WERE HIT WITH SO MANY INJURY'S LAST YEAR THAT ITS REALLY NO WAY YOU COULD SEE WHO WAS AT FAULT . WE HAD THIRD STRINGERS, PRACTICE SQUAD PLAYER'S PLAYING AGAINST OTHER TEAMS STARTERS. WITH THAT SAID I THINK MARCUS STILL HAS IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Call it what you will, my guess is that he will be on the bubble for making this years squad with very little chance of making the team beyond 2010. +1 Not going to pay $7 M for that level of performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Stroud's career in the NFL is coming to an end, hence the inconsistency in his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Stroud is overrated by the average, uninformed Bills fans. But those who watch the team as closely as most of us do know he's nothing more than an average DT. He seems to dissappear during a lot of games. His play on the field does not warrant the 3rd and 5th round picks we traded to get him and the lucrative extension he signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'm not going to pretend to watch old DVD's of Bills games focusing on the line of scrimmage, but it seems like common sense would point to Marcus Stroud being an underperforming player. Since he has been a Bill, our run defense has continued to be terrible. Yet, every expert/film-watcher talks about how underrated and under appreciated Kyle Williams is. Simple math tells me if you have two very good DT's, it would be hard to have such a bad run D, even if your linebackers are street free agents. According to pro football focus, the answer would be yes. They analyze every play by every player and assign a grade, then compare it to other players at that position. Over the course of a season, it seems like a fairly accurate way to track performance in certain areas. Stroud was 87th out of 87 DT's rated against the run in 2009, and his run defense metric of -21.2 was almost 7 points lower than the second worst DT(-14.3). Any way you look at it, that is really really bad. In comparison, Kyle Williams run defense metric was +4.7, which ranked him 24th in the NFL(out of 87), which means he was above average against the run compared to other defensive tackles. Whether it was injuries or just a decline, Stroud was a shell of the player he was in the first year he was here, when he was ranked 15th best in the NFL at +9.6 in 2008. Kyle Williams was an even higher +19.8 in 2008, which ranked him 2nd in run defense only to Jamal Williams of SD. In fact in 2008, Kyle Williams was ranked as the 4th best DT overall considering pass rush, pass coverage and run defense, with Stroud finishing 10th. Even more surprising, Buffalo was the only team in the NFL in 2008 to have 2 DT's finish in the top 10, meaning their DT play was pretty freaking good that year. When you factor this in with Chris Kelsay, the starter at LDE most of the year and Ryan Denney, his backup, being 2 of the worst run defenders at DE in the NFL according to their metrics, and you have the entire left side of the DL that is horrible at run defense. Schobel has been above average against the run in each of the 3 years they have run this metric, so with him and Williams, the right side was much better. Obviously in 2008, with 3/4 of the the DL ranking high in run defense, the only weak link was Kelsay. When you add the player right next to Kelsay in Stroud also having a horrible year at run defense, you have a big problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Stroud is overrated by the average, uninformed Bills fans. But those who watch the team as closely as most of us do know he's nothing more than an average DT. He seems to dissappear during a lot of games. His play on the field does not warrant the 3rd and 5th round picks we traded to get him and the lucrative extension he signed. I kinda disagree, how good could Bruce Smith have been if he had played on a bad team, in a crap scheme. With no Daryl Tally behind him to make the tackles that he whiffed on trying to rush the passer. How good would Reggie White be every game on bad teams eating three blockers every down. I think you guys tend to underestimate just how bad that Bills Tampa 2 scheme was against the run, along with certain players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'm not going to pretend to watch old DVD's of Bills games focusing on the line of scrimmage, but it seems like common sense would point to Marcus Stroud being an underperforming player. Since he has been a Bill, our run defense has continued to be terrible. Yet, every expert/film-watcher talks about how underrated and under appreciated Kyle Williams is. Simple math tells me if you have two very good DT's, it would be hard to have such a bad run D, even if your linebackers are street free agents. no....who are the leading tacklers on the teams around the league????...not DT's...good DT's take on blocks and sometimes sprinkle in 4 tackles a game...it's the MLB's that are supposed to stuff the run...and I'm not knocking Poz...the reason we stank against the run is becuase our LB's had to play freakin safety zones lol...it's like we wanted seven guys in zone and then hope Stroud and Williams could take on five blockers and still make the play against the run... STROUD IS DEFINITELY NOT OVER RATED... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 He played really well his first year. So much so he got a new contract. He's not ideal, but he's the best we've had at DT since Pat Williams jumped ship. Man, is THAT not saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Stroud was good for us, with the exception of last season. Last season he wasn't good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 To answer the title - yes - I think his best days are behind him - maybe now becomes a relief role player but i would not be shocked if he ends up cut after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv001 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'm not going to pretend to watch old DVD's of Bills games focusing on the line of scrimmage, but it seems like common sense would point to Marcus Stroud being an underperforming player. Since he has been a Bill, our run defense has continued to be terrible. Yet, every expert/film-watcher talks about how underrated and under appreciated Kyle Williams is. Simple math tells me if you have two very good DT's, it would be hard to have such a bad run D, even if your linebackers are street free agents. What do you suggest the Bills do with Stroud? Should they just release him? Should they trade him? If they trade him, what do you feel just compensation for Stroud to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Almost every Bills player is overrated on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Stroud is overrated by the average, uninformed Bills fans. But those who watch the team as closely as most of us do know he's nothing more than an average DT. He seems to dissappear during a lot of games. His play on the field does not warrant the 3rd and 5th round picks we traded to get him and the lucrative extension he signed. Well this fan who watches the team closely has several questions which you should be able to answer in order to substantiate the position you are taking. 1. Average, underaverage or overaverage are simply opinions that anyone can have when comparing a player to the whole league. The more real opinion though that actually governs this question is whether Stroud was an upgrade or downgrade over what we had before. Maybe you are a big McCargo fan but the Bills have had a big gap at DT going back to when they drafted both Williams and McCargo and Mccargo was a bust for us. A seasoned viewer such as yourself has to admit Stroud wherever you rank him in the league was an upgrade over what we had. I think this is not just opinion but is simply reality and that is where one reasonably must start. 2. Did he cost us more to get than he was worth? A subjective question for sure, but actually the cost of two second day draft choices for an immediate starter is simply not a large cost. The draft has become tremendously overrated thanks to the promotion of ESPN, Mel Kiper and hundreds of magazines that have found overpromotion of the draft to be a good way to get nickels from football starved fans. Every third rounder is a Joe Montana which just ain't true. In fact almost half of 1st rounders are John McCargo and the Bills did not give up all that much to get Stroud. In fact, if one wants to claim he costs to much for his play they have a better case to be made for his extension than for his trade. However, as the Bills have been sitting on cap room for a few years, the simple fact is the cost of Stroud did not cost this team better players. If you want to offer the opinion he is overrated that's fine but if you want it to be more than a fact-free opinion then whom do you think that was available the Bills should have acquired at DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I can make up some stats and grid them out to say just about anything. They have Stroud better than Ngata in that thing and 20 places higher than Jason Ferguson. Heck, as much as I like Kyle Wms, they have him listed as #4. Puhlease!!! If they had the #4 and #10 DTs, why did they have the 22nd rated rush defense?? Age IS injury. Stroud may not even make that team. Yeah, you can make up some stats. So can anyone. They, on the other hand, are a highly respected website which watches every play of every game each season. "Age IS injury"? Really? Pat Williams will be very interested to hear that. So will Ted Washington. So will Curtis Martin. I could go on and on and on. Basically, though, anyone who thinks the difference between age 30 and age 31 is the difference between 10th best in the league and 74th best in the league is someone desperately ignoring reality to make a point. "If we had the #4 and #10 DTs, why did we have the 22nd rated rush defense" in 2008 you ask? Scheme. Bad linebackers. Not much at defensive end after Schobel's injury. More to the point, though, we weren't really the 22nd rated defense, not in the way that counted. The way to evaluate your rush defense isn't total yards given up, it's Yards Per Carry. Even with pretty much nobody else who was really good at run defense on the front seven, having a healthy Stroud and Williams in the middle meant that we tied for 11th in the league at defensive YPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 What do you suggest the Bills do with Stroud? Should they just release him? Should they trade him? If they trade him, what do you feel just compensation for Stroud to be? 7 rolls of tape. I can't believe people still support this guy. I guess that's all I have to say about Marcus Stroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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