POLL: Nevermind vs. Appetite for Destruction. Which is better

[bills_fan]

And when I first heard it and they said it was by Guns and Roses I thought "damn, you mean that band I saw listed on the marquee of the Troubadour on Santa Monica Boulevard every Saturday night? I really need to check them out." Needless to say they never played there again.

 

Wow, it really would have been awesome to see them in a venue like that.

[Chef Jim]

Wow, it really would have been awesome to see them in a venue like that.

 

Closest I got was LA Guns with Tracii Guns who was the original lead guitar with GNR before Slash. It was a cool time in Hollywood. Unfortunately I worked mostly nights in restaurants at the time and didn't make it to too many clubs.

[Delete This Account]

Appetite was the pinnacle of 80's rock. It was a level above everything else. I think Appetite is a great album and I listened to it a ton even though I really hate that genre as a whole. It's made for radio, and damn near perfect for what it is. It's fluff. Incredibly well done fluff, but fluff.

 

Nevermind marked the death of that hair band genre, and changed the future course of rock. It's not as radio-friendly, but far more influential.

 

To make a somewhat unfair analogy, it's like comparing Saturday Night Fever to London Calling. SNF was huge, got lots of radio play, it's listenable. It was the pinnacle of disco, the 70's equivalent of hair bands. London Calling was a far more influential, and yes, better record.

with all due respect, i think you missed the mark on your comparison. because SNF is a pop album, while London Calling essentially wasn't, when using loose definitions.

 

(ADD: and i apologize for missing your reference to this being an unfair analogy, but the basis of my point is not to knock you, but simply to further the discussion).

 

the trouble, in my opinion, is that both Appetite and Nevermind marked the end of the hair-metal era to a certain degree, because both bands had punk influences, but just showed them in different ways.

 

Guns took the hair band sound to a more complex sound, in part because they had a great guitar player in Slash, and soundly based song-writing skills.

 

Nevermind made a mockery of the hair-metal bands.

 

both, however, shifted the musical landscape at the same time, unlike SNF and London Calling, which sparked certain shifts, but not in the same era. a better example might be "Tommy" and "Sticky Fingers," perhaps.

 

(all that said, i would argue that Metallica's Enter Sandman/Black album was far more influential to heavy metal rock -- and rock in general -- than anything Guns put out. and i do not mean offense to Guns N' Roses fans. i've seen both live, and enjoyed both shows.)

 

in the end, i voted for Nevermind, because i believe it further carried the punk rock torch, connecting the 70s to the 90s, by building on the tried and trusted finger-in-the-air angst music i like should stand for. and of course, Nirvana stole the title for their album from The Replacements (true story).

 

jw

[Astrojanitor]

with all due respect, i think you missed the mark on your comparison. because SNF is a pop album, while London Calling essentially wasn't, when using loose definitions.

 

(ADD: and i apologize for missing your reference to this being an unfair analogy, but the basis of my point is not to knock you, but simply to further the discussion).

 

the trouble, in my opinion, is that both Appetite and Nevermind marked the end of the hair-metal era to a certain degree, because both bands had punk influences, but just showed them in different ways.

 

Guns took the hair band sound to a more complex sound, in part because they had a great guitar player in Slash, and soundly based song-writing skills.

 

Nevermind made a mockery of the hair-metal bands.

 

both, however, shifted the musical landscape at the same time, unlike SNF and London Calling, which sparked certain shifts, but not in the same era. a better example might be "Tommy" and "Sticky Fingers," perhaps.

 

(all that said, i would argue that Metallica's Enter Sandman/Black album was far more influential to heavy metal rock -- and rock in general -- than anything Guns put out. and i do not mean offense to Guns N' Roses fans. i've seen both live, and enjoyed both shows.)

 

in the end, i voted for Nevermind, because i believe it further carried the punk rock torch, connecting the 70s to the 90s, by building on the tried and trusted finger-in-the-air angst music i like should stand for. and of course, Nirvana stole the title for their album from The Replacements (true story).

 

jw

 

I agree (mostly)...but then I also like Joey's analogy. A lot of that 80s metal is a guilty pleasure of mine. I can certainly attest Appetite wasn't so much influential as obscenely popular. The thing that really let Appetite survive is the fact it's recorded well. A crazy amount of that stuff sounds over processed and boring. Take Junkyard for example. Great scuzzy blues metal from the 80s (featuring a member of Minor Threat, what?). Songs are clearly great, but the albums are just dead. Too much production. GnR may have made it big, but half those bands were similarly channeling the new York Dolls. Only difference between Guns and Hanoi Rocks, Jetboy, LA Guns, Junkyard..etc was the ability to put together one monster album. It really was the peak of that movement.

 

But, unlike post-Nevermind, the radio waves weren't flooded with GnR clones. Appetite was this one singular thing that happened and no one, not even GnR, were able to pull it off again. Nevermind was, although in my opinion over processed and overrated (musically), it was vastly more important in terms of changing the pop music landscape. The 80s stuff was fun, but ultimately almost suffocatingly shallow. Nevermind opened up the possibility to add introspection into music. it's so much more personal--something that was missing then (and now). Unfortunately a lot of the post-Nirvana bands confused being humorless with being deep which kind of retrofits Nirvana as being pretentious and self important in a lot of people's minds. Which, if you've heard their live albums or had the chance to see them in person, was just not the case.

 

So yeah, Appetite was the pinnacle of a pop movement and Nevermind was the break in the new wave.

I still think Appetite is a better record.

[Delete This Account]

I agree (mostly)...but then I also like Joey's analogy. A lot of that 80s metal is a guilty pleasure of mine. I can certainly attest Appetite wasn't so much influential as obscenely popular. The thing that really let Appetite survive is the fact it's recorded well. A crazy amount of that stuff sounds over processed and boring. Take Junkyard for example. Great scuzzy blues metal from the 80s (featuring a member of Minor Threat, what?). Songs are clearly great, but the albums are just dead. Too much production. GnR may have made it big, but half those bands were similarly channeling the new York Dolls. Only difference between Guns and Hanoi Rocks, Jetboy, LA Guns, Junkyard..etc was the ability to put together one monster album. It really was the peak of that movement.

 

But, unlike post-Nevermind, the radio waves weren't flooded with GnR clones. Appetite was this one singular thing that happened and no one, not even GnR, were able to pull it off again. Nevermind was, although in my opinion over processed and overrated (musically), it was vastly more important in terms of changing the pop music landscape. The 80s stuff was fun, but ultimately almost suffocatingly shallow. Nevermind opened up the possibility to add introspection into music. it's so much more personal--something that was missing then (and now). Unfortunately a lot of the post-Nirvana bands confused being humorless with being deep which kind of retrofits Nirvana as being pretentious and self important in a lot of people's minds. Which, if you've heard their live albums or had the chance to see them in person, was just not the case.

 

So yeah, Appetite was the pinnacle of a pop movement and Nevermind was the break in the new wave.

I still think Appetite is a better record.

well, put.

to push this discussion further, i do disagree with the generalization (it's not just yours, but that of many) that the 80s were a shallow era for music. popular music, yes, though i thought it was a necessary and happy departure from the disco glitz, on one hand, and the far too self-indulgent 8-minute songs that some bands put out.

 

the 80s, however, did lay the foundation for what was to come in regards to "grunge." beyond my obvious affinity for The 'Mats, there were other important bands such as Husker Du, REM (when the music still mattered and Stipe's vocals were incoherent), the west coast punk/metal, black flag/rollins movement, the Minutemen, Pixies etc.

 

for some, the argument could be made that had The 'Mats or Pixes or the Du's or Social Distortion to a degree had made it big, then Nirvana's influence would not have been that significant.

 

in some ways, the 80s provided America to re-apply its stamp on modern music, something which had to be reclaimed given all the important stuff coming out of England at the end of '70s. and the acts mentioned above sparked a late and great -- and last? -- push by the independent labels to grab a piece of the landscape.

 

the indies are making somewhat of a comeback, given the sudden and impressive rise of the New West label.

 

but, given the disjointed state of music these days and the proliferation of singles and ipod friendly downloads, i don't know if we'll ever see an era like the 80s again.

and i still miss vinyl.

 

jw

[Astrojanitor]

well, put.

to push this discussion further, i do disagree with the generalization (it's not just yours, but that of many) that the 80s were a shallow era for music. popular music, yes, though i thought it was a necessary and happy departure from the disco glitz, on one hand, and the far too self-indulgent 8-minute songs that some bands put out.

 

the 80s, however, did lay the foundation for what was to come in regards to "grunge." beyond my obvious affinity for The 'Mats, there were other important bands such as Husker Du, REM (when the music still mattered and Stipe's vocals were incoherent), the west coast punk/metal, black flag/rollins movement, the Minutemen, Pixies etc.

 

for some, the argument could be made that had The 'Mats or Pixes or the Du's or Social Distortion to a degree had made it big, then Nirvana's influence would not have been that significant.

 

in some ways, the 80s provided America to re-apply its stamp on modern music, something which had to be reclaimed given all the important stuff coming out of England at the end of '70s. and the acts mentioned above sparked a late and great -- and last? -- push by the independent labels to grab a piece of the landscape.

 

the indies are making somewhat of a comeback, given the sudden and impressive rise of the New West label.

 

but, given the disjointed state of music these days and the proliferation of singles and ipod friendly downloads, i don't know if we'll ever see an era like the 80s again.

and i still miss vinyl.

 

jw

 

I totally agree with you about 80s music. The hair metal stuff was shallow and stripper-y, but the underground was amazing. SST, Homestead, Twin Tone, 4AD, Shimmy Disc, Rough Trade and Factory were putting out essential album after essential album. Bands like This Heat, Tuxedomoon, Half Japanese, Birthday Party, Amebix and Rain Parade were doing stuff that people couldn't even begin to wrap their heads around until 10-15 years later.

Lots of great stuff that was criminally ignored.

 

Indies are making a commercial comeback/push/whatever mostly because indie bands offer cheap licensing fees for tv shows/movies/commercials. It's a tricky thing trying to come to terms with Grizzly Bear in a VW ad. Or Of Montreal having one of their songs re-written as the Outback Steakhouse theme. "Selling out" does not mean what it did in the 80s. The mats would never allow their music on St Elsewhere, but the entire Sub Pop roster are tripping over themselves to get placement on Grey's Anatomy.

 

So now we are back to being singles driven with product placement being the main avenue for distribution. The video has been replaced by the beer commercial. I think it just shows how little music matters to most people now. It is being marketed has a half step above white noise and is being treated as such. Now this is coming from someone who got 6 vinyl LPs in the mail today--I probably swing to hard in the other direction. But I can all but guarantee the continued love affair with nevermind, Appetite, or classic rock as a whole stems from knowing we will never have anything to replace it. There will not be another "thing" we can all agree on. In 1987 loving Appetite was a given, in 1992 loving Nirvana was a given....now our lives are scored with personalized mixes as opposed to albums, Music is no longer a communal shared experience. It's depressing to think that in ten years some kid is going to reminisce about "Awesome party mix #3" the same way I do about Daydream Nation.

[Delete This Account]

I totally agree with you about 80s music. The hair metal stuff was shallow and stripper-y, but the underground was amazing. SST, Homestead, Twin Tone, 4AD, Shimmy Disc, Rough Trade and Factory were putting out essential album after essential album. Bands like This Heat, Tuxedomoon, Half Japanese, Birthday Party, Amebix and Rain Parade were doing stuff that people couldn't even begin to wrap their heads around until 10-15 years later.

Lots of great stuff that was criminally ignored.

 

Indies are making a commercial comeback/push/whatever mostly because indie bands offer cheap licensing fees for tv shows/movies/commercials. It's a tricky thing trying to come to terms with Grizzly Bear in a VW ad. Or Of Montreal having one of their songs re-written as the Outback Steakhouse theme. "Selling out" does not mean what it did in the 80s. The mats would never allow their music on St Elsewhere, but the entire Sub Pop roster are tripping over themselves to get placement on Grey's Anatomy.

 

So now we are back to being singles driven with product placement being the main avenue for distribution. The video has been replaced by the beer commercial. I think it just shows how little music matters to most people now. It is being marketed has a half step above white noise and is being treated as such. Now this is coming from someone who got 6 vinyl LPs in the mail today--I probably swing to hard in the other direction. But I can all but guarantee the continued love affair with nevermind, Appetite, or classic rock as a whole stems from knowing we will never have anything to replace it. There will not be another "thing" we can all agree on. In 1987 loving Appetite was a given, in 1992 loving Nirvana was a given....now our lives are scored with personalized mixes as opposed to albums, Music is no longer a communal shared experience. It's depressing to think that in ten years some kid is going to reminisce about "Awesome party mix #3" the same way I do about Daydream Nation.

touche'

 

jw

[Chef Jim]

I attribute most of the quality of Appetite to Mike Clink. You create that sound with those !@#$ ups you've accomplished something. There's a story that Axl tells that when they started making money Slash called him and told him his refrigerator was leaking. Axl asked if he plugged it in. Slashes response "plugged it in?"

[Astrojanitor]

I attribute most of the quality of Appetite to Mike Clink. You create that sound with those !@#$ ups you've accomplished something. There's a story that Axl tells that when they started making money Slash called him and told him his refrigerator was leaking. Axl asked if he plugged it in. Slashes response "plugged it in?"

 

there's also an insane story about Duff McKagan drinking so much his liver exploded with such force it left third degree burns all along his insides.

How none of them died is totally beyond me.

 

I was actually surprised to learn Chris Holmes from WASP was still alive. Those glam metal dudes are nothing if not resilient

[the_franchise]

AFD by landslide, Nevermind is a good album, but Appetite is probably one of the best cds of the era, genre, and ever.

[Chef Jim]

there's also an insane story about Duff McKagan drinking so much his liver exploded with such force it left third degree burns all along his insides.

How none of them died is totally beyond me.

 

I was actually surprised to learn Chris Holmes from WASP was still alive. Those glam metal dudes are nothing if not resilient

 

Glam didn't start the trend.

[Astrojanitor]

Glam didn't start the trend.

 

is not dying a trend?

[Simon]

I remember to this day where I was the first time I heard Welcome to the Jungle. I thought whoa, great stuff. I have no idea where I was the first time I heard Smell Like Teen Spirit but I'm pretty sure my reaction was

 

No brainer.

I could probably have typed that exact paragraph.

Although the first time I heard Pearl Jam they really got my attention.

Appetite vs Ten would have been a much better poll. I might have even picked Ten.

[taterhill]

Night Train

It's So Easy

Mr Brownstone

Rocket Queen

 

this album has hits after hits.....

[taterhill]

Well I'm a west coast struttin'

One bad mother

Got a rattlesnake suitcase

Under my arm

Said I'm a mean machine

Been drinkin' gasoline

An honey you can make my motor hum

I got one chance left

In a nine live cat

I got a dog eat dog sly smile

I got a Molotov cocktail with a match to go

I smoke my cigarette with style

An I can tell you honey

You can make my money tonight

[LeviF]

Well I'm a west coast struttin'

One bad mother

Got a rattlesnake suitcase

Under my arm

Said I'm a mean machine

Been drinkin' gasoline

An honey you can make my motor hum

I got one chance left

In a nine live cat

I got a dog eat dog sly smile

I got a Molotov cocktail with a match to go

I smoke my cigarette with style

An I can tell you honey

You can make my money tonight

I do love Nightrain.

[gmac17]

GNR all the way.

 

Did anyone go to the 1992 GNR-metallica-faith no more show at Rich Stadium? Besides being an incredible concert, the entire stadium turned into a "throw sh*t around"" free for all for an hour between GNR and metallica - stuff everywhere in the air, including giant toilet paper rolls being thrown from the upper deck.

 

Saw GNR a few times afterward without the rest of the band, and they were still awesome (even 4 years ago at the Hammerstein Ballroom in NY) - Axl has incredible energy on stage.