jethro_tull Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I read an article that said brandon did not have any authority about players and that john guy pushed his influence on the coaches, like dick jauron. this example from an article: http://www.realfootball365.com/articles/bills/14777 said that guy pushed players to play that he signed to cover his back. because when brandon was "GM" he had no pull and was like a bad substitute teacher a real gm with football knowledge and power would have stoipped that kind of garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 That article spouts some stuff that, if true, would require a very well placed source. So before even discussing the substance of the article I have to ask, what are the credentials of the author? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 That article spouts some stuff that, if true, would require a very well placed source. So before even discussing the substance of the article I have to ask, what are the credentials of the author? What is well known is that the Bills didn't really have a typical GM strongman within their very diffused football structure. This divided organizational structure came into place when Levy was hired and then continued when Brandon took over for Levy. When Levy was asked what his role was his response was that the was a facilitator working to create a consensus. It was the owner who created this ineffective system because he didn't want a strong and influential GM after the Donahoe episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 What is well known is that the Bills didn't really have a typical GM strongman within their very diffused football structure. This divided organizational structure came into place when Levy was hired and then continued when Brandon took over for Levy. When Levy was asked what his role was his response was that the was a facilitator working to create a consensus. It was the owner who created this ineffective system because he didn't want a strong and influential GM after the Donahoe episode. well, i applaud your rare accuracy regarding their distributed management structure making russ (nor marv for that matter) not a real gm (the overwhelming majority of fan experts totally whiff on that one). but i have to disagree on the motive for implementing it and the implication that its an ineffective system by default i never liked working in a distributed mgmt system when i was a sr mgr, even when i was working in it, because it can get maddeningly frustrating when you cant come to consensus. id rather have someone reviewing options and making the call even if i dont fully agree with it simply to keep things moving. but just like a traditional hierarchical mgmt structure it has its benefits and handicaps. so that mgmt structure CAN work, but so far it obviously hasnt the potential good news is that now that theyve had a failure with it, perhaps theyve got a better handle on how to make it work. failure is a great illuminator and if theyve plugged the holes that caused them trouble before they might be able to get it to fly no way to know except to sit back and watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 so regarding russ as the substitute teacher, he was really more like the president of iran - a figurehead with no power except that russ is actually valuable to the team as a slick marketer; but idk wtf value that lunatic ahmadinsanejad brings to anybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Nothing really shocking there. Right from the beginning it seemed that his role was everything excluding talent type issues. Maybe if there was a split amounfg the others he's be a deciding vote. He never claimed to be a football wizz, and I don't even think he wanted to make these choices. No reason to rip him for it as he was never put in the position to make these choices. I read an article that said brandon did not have any authority about players and that john guy pushed his influence on the coaches, like dick jauron. this example from an article: http://www.realfootball365.com/articles/bills/14777 said that guy pushed players to play that he signed to cover his back. because when brandon was "GM" he had no pull and was like a bad substitute teacher a real gm with football knowledge and power would have stoipped that kind of garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 Nothing really shocking there. Right from the beginning it seemed that his role was everything excluding talent type issues. Maybe if there was a split amounfg the others he's be a deciding vote. He never claimed to be a football wizz, and I don't even think he wanted to make these choices. No reason to rip him for it as he was never put in the position to make these choices. Agreed. Not a rip on Brandon at all. Just that without a GM with knowledge and authority, the Bills seemed to protect self interests and create conflicts of interest rather than field the best players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJBrown Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Agreed. Not a rip on Brandon at all. Just that without a GM with knowledge and authority, the Bills seemed to protect self interests and create conflicts of interest rather than field the best players Russ did a good job considering the circumstances. This is why i love the Nix hire and the other recent moves. A strong football guy on the same page as an admin/money guy can be great....each focused on their roles. Lets hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 well, i applaud your rare accuracy regarding their distributed management structure making russ (nor marv for that matter) not a real gm (the overwhelming majority of fan experts totally whiff on that one). but i have to disagree on the motive for implementing it and the implication that its an ineffective system by default i never liked working in a distributed mgmt system when i was a sr mgr, even when i was working in it, because it can get maddeningly frustrating when you cant come to consensus. id rather have someone reviewing options and making the call even if i dont fully agree with it simply to keep things moving. but just like a traditional hierarchical mgmt structure it has its benefits and handicaps. so that mgmt structure CAN work, but so far it obviously hasnt the potential good news is that now that theyve had a failure with it, perhaps theyve got a better handle on how to make it work. failure is a great illuminator and if theyve plugged the holes that caused them trouble before they might be able to get it to fly no way to know except to sit back and watch The organizational structure which Levy and Brandon worked in was absurd from the start. Levy was out of football for five years with little qualification to be a quasi GM. Russ Brandon was a marketing guru who had no business being seriously involved at any level with making football decisions. There are certain types of businesses in which a consensus type operation would work. The NFL is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Back to the original article - how do we know that Guy strongarmed Jauron into playing guys he got? How do we know this is credible? Who is the author of this article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Back to the original article - how do we know that Guy strongarmed Jauron into playing guys he got? How do we know this is credible? Who is the author of this article? anello 1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Rather than a "football man" what this organization needed was someone with commonsense. All it required was someone -- anyone -- to say, "okay, we've decided we don't want to guarantee $25 M to J Peters. What is Plan B?" Either this didn't happen, or Littman/Overdorft explained that there would be no Plan B because no one in their right might could believe it makes sense to move a 375 lber who loses focus on his footwork to LT, particularly in 3-4 divison (LBs off edge). Of course, this was only compounded when he couldn't earn the spot (he held or was run by on every play by 3-4 OLB James Harrison in preseason) and Littman/Overdorf explained to Jauron that Mr. Wilson doesn't pay $3m base salaries to back-ups. Very sad day when our COO was out selling the idea that Walker would perform well at LT and many fans so pissed at JP that they were willing to believe it. This was an organizational failure, not a problem with Brandon not having enough power, or John Guy having too much say internally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 mental image of Marshawn throwing paper airplanes into Russ' office. But realfootball365 is sort of bogus. It's like Bleacher Report with allowance money for the writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I read an article that said brandon did not have any authority about players and that john guy pushed his influence on the coaches, like dick jauron. this example from an article: http://www.realfootball365.com/articles/bills/14777 said that guy pushed players to play that he signed to cover his back. because when brandon was "GM" he had no pull and was like a bad substitute teacher a real gm with football knowledge and power would have stoipped that kind of garbage This article sheds a bit of light on some circumstances that have always struck me as odd .. namely, Langston Walker switched to LT, no veteran OTs brought in when Peters was traded, no OT drafted, and Walker being cut just prior to week #1. How could Jauron allow that? What other team would take such a gamble? Organizational structure is the foundation to running a great business. The Bills have failed in this area since Butler and his people left town. First Donahoe had all the control and he ran a "reign of terror" that obviously did not get the job done. After that Ralph went paranoid. The Levy/Brandon/ Jauron era has always left me wondering who is in charge? How much influence did Guy and Modrak ever have? Was the Front Office ever working from a clearly defined plan? Who calls the shots? I am so happy that Modrak convinced people to bring in Buddy and I am pleased with him so far. Yes, Buddy is not very polished as a front man but right now we don't need polish, we need someone to find us lots of good football players. Hiring Whaley is another nice move. Bringing in a bright young mind from a winning organization will help to change the culture at OBD. The national media criticized the Bills for not doing this to begin with. Finally, on to Chan Gailey. We do not know what kind of coach he will be. We know he is experienced and respected. I suspect he will be much better at installing an offense that Jauron. He has assembled a huge staff of assistants comprised of veteran coaches and some new blood. I cannot recall the Bills ever having so many coaches before? I think this is good and I suspect some of these new guys hired from the college ranks will turn out to be very effective. I am optimistic that we are finally heading in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 anello 1960 Yea I know !!!!!!! My question is, who is he and how does he know John Guy bullied Jauron into playing Langston Walker at LT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yea I know !!!!!!! My question is, who is he and how does he know John Guy bullied Jauron into playing Langston Walker at LT? Getting back to the article- the end results and impact is that Demetrius Bell was thrown to the wolves as starting LT with only two years playing experience as an offensive lineman! On a team where the starting QB has injury and concussion issues! That is complete mind blowing absurdity! The author (and so do I) really wants Bell to succeed in spite of the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Getting back to the article- the end results and impact is that Demetrius Bell was thrown to the wolves as starting LT with only two years playing experience as an offensive lineman! On a team where the starting QB has injury and concussion issues! That is complete mind blowing absurdity! The author (and so do I) really wants Bell to succeed in spite of the circumstances. Add to the absurdity that they planned on playing a no-huddle offense with a fat and lazy Langston Walker at LT, then they fired their OC at the end of preseason and stayed with the no-huddle. Then they cut the fat and lazy Walker one week prior to the first game and replaced him with an inexperienced Bell who missed much of the summer with injuries and they still stayed with the no-huddle. Add to that that the had a new Center and rookies starting at both gaurd positions and they still stayed with the no huddle. Not to mention a defense that could not stop the run and they still stayed with the no huddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts