zazie Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Well, I don't see Ralph's name on the Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, or Roswell Park CI, but maybe you can tell me where it is since you apparently have access to the inner recesses of Ralph's mind. You don't suppose maybe he donates to hospice and cancer treatment & research because he lost a daughter to cancer, no? And I'm sure Kevin Everett would prefer RW continue funding spinal research rather than government pork, but thanks anyway for that insight into Ralph's inner psyche, and what motivates the man. You have a gift. Tell me, do you have that same view into everyone's inner thoughts, or just Wilson's? Yes I am sure the cancer donations are due to his losing a daughter to cancer. But the are contributiosn made for a tax advantage nonetheless. Yes, he gets to pick WHICH charities, but rest assured his tax attorney tells him how much. Or do you suppose he does not write off his charity? Or I uess you think they haven't calculated to the dime when the exact amount to give that will giv him the most benefit, this rich businessman with a life long of attorneys and accountants in his background. I don't know any of his inner thoughts but I would guess he is shrewd enough to do it the way the benefits him athe most... and he gives THAT much to the charities, that he chooses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Golisano absolutely would not willingly sell the Sabres to a buyer who would move the team. Balsielle is waving millions of dollars at him and Golisano doesnt seem that willing I would have thought exactly the same, until TG pulled up his WNY roots and became a tax exile in the Sunshine State. Now the guy's shtuppin' Monica Seles (read '$high$-maintenance') and throwing around huge sums of money on political concerns and vendettas, so I'm not as confident of his commitment to keeping the 'bres in The BuffTown. Balsillie's tried to buy the Penguins, Predators, and Coyotes - if he waives enough $$$ at Tommy G., who knows???? JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Yes I am sure the cancer donations are due to his losing a daughter to cancer. But the are contributiosn made for a tax advantage nonetheless. Yes, he gets to pick WHICH charities, but rest assured his tax attorney tells him how much. Or do you suppose he does not write off his charity? Or I uess you think they haven't calculated to the dime when the exact amount to give that will giv him the most benefit, this rich businessman with a life long of attorneys and accountants in his background. I don't know any of his inner thoughts but I would guess he is shrewd enough to do it the way the benefits him athe most... and he gives THAT much to the charities, that he chooses. I'm pretty sure everyone in RW's tax bracket consults their tax attorneys/accountants about charitable contributions. Even I do that. It still doesn't change the fact that, if RW was the greedy, penny-pinching miser he's accused of being by some, he could just keep the money (minus the taxes) and be better-off still. Let's approach this from a different perspective: do you think Al Davis gives a !@#$ about Oakland having a team after he 'kicks it'? How bout Jerry Jones - think he's worried about the people of Dallas before his own pocketbook? We've already seen what Bob Irsay, Georgia Fontierre, and Art Modell did with their long & well established NFL franchises in Baltimore, LA, and Cleveland. I'll bet when all is said and done, Wilson will have a say in keeping the Bills right here after he's gone. Right now, he's not obligated to share it with us. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I'm going with Tim Graham his assesment on that situation... Maybe we just don't want to know if we knew... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 but is that a function of the "high character" of WNY fans, or the realization that there's not much else to do ni WNY? Here you go again..."poor Buffalo and Western New York"....."I live in Houston and I feel so sorry for those people, without the Bills there is nothing to do"...."What the hell is there to do in Houston that I can't do in Buffalo?" My list: 1) Sweat my ass off in the summer: CHECK 2) Watch our government waste money by sending people into space: CHECK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Kelly Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Well that certainly belongs in the category of 'Dumbest TSW Posts Ever'. RW could have moved the team to Seattle in 1970. He could have moved them to LA to fill the void left by the Rams (and filled his pockets) when Georgia Frontierre sold LA out for St. Louis in the 90's - the NFL would love to have a team in LA. He could have pulled a 'Bob Irsay' - packing up and moving in the middle of the night like Irsay did with the Baltimore Colts in 1984 - or pulled an 'Art Modell' and gotten a $300M+ new stadium and $50M+ cash to use at his discretion, like Modell did with the Cleveland Browns-turned-Baltimore Ravens in 1996. But guess what? The Bills are still here, in the 2nd smallest TV market in the league, still right where they started 50 years ago. How many times has Al Davis moved/threatened to move the Raiders in that same 50-year period? Yep, that's ol' Ralph, just lookin' out for himself. Read Webster guys post. That is exactly how it is Senetor. Since taxpayers money paid for the stadium and he had made a good profit, off of all of us for a long time, He is indebted to us. Sure he could have moved to other cities, but if it isnt broke why fix it. And since he knows the taxpayers paid for it, he would look like crap to move. but if he is not here. What do you think his kids will do Senator. give us all a kiss. You are naive to think that he isnt doing this out of the goodness of his heart. So for all your undocumented information that you spoke about. I hope you can feel good that Ralph is here for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I would have thought exactly the same, until TG pulled up his WNY roots and became a tax exile in the Sunshine State. Now the guy's shtuppin' Monica Seles (read '$high$-maintenance') and throwing around huge sums of money on political concerns and vendettas, so I'm not as confident of his commitment to keeping the 'bres in The BuffTown. Balsillie's tried to buy the Penguins, Predators, and Coyotes - if he waives enough $$$ at Tommy G., who knows???? JMO. Golisano was getting assraped on taxes on a daily basis... the numbers were ridiculous. I'd move too. Bob Rich also got the hell out of town. Nobody from the Knox family lives here anymore. Russo is trying to sell his Hamburg mansion once again... didn't he move to Florida as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Read Webster guys post. That is exactly how it is Senetor. Since taxpayers money paid for the stadium and he had made a good profit, off of all of us for a long time, He is indebted to us. Sure he could have moved to other cities, but if it isnt broke why fix it. And since he knows the taxpayers paid for it, he would look like crap to move. but if he is not here. What do you think his kids will do Senator. give us all a kiss. You are naive to think that he isnt doing this out of the goodness of his heart. So for all your undocumented information that you spoke about. I hope you can feel good that Ralph is here for you. Undocumented? Undocumented??? Are you nuts, or blind, or maybe just can't read??? What, exactly, would you like 'documented', that I have not already provided thru multiple links to reputable web sites and publications? Your argument is vacuous, your reasoning ridiculous. And I did read Webster Guy's post - I hate when people use the term "owe", as in Ralph doesn't OWE us anything. Does he legally need to notify the community that he's going to sell the team? Not with the exception of notifying his landlord (the county) who rents him the stadium (named after him) that was built/renovated with taxpayer money. He has used that stadium to make millions of dollars stemming from taxpayer investment. He has a moral obligation to keep the fans informed as best as possible because he knows how important the team is to them. I have posted on this before, but if I own the team I wouldnt want to be seen as another Art Modell, who alienated an entire city that now hates his guts because he handled the situation with no class. If Ralph built a stadium himself and had no help from my tax dollars I would say he owes nothing. If he uses my money to make money for himself and truly understands how bummed fans will be if they lose their team, then he should do everything he can to communicate the options available to him and his family regarding a succession plan. I would respect his right to sell the team, but only if he does it with class and a detailed explanation of the offers received and why he chose to go the route he did. He definitely "owes" us that. But Ralph has stated unequivocally that he won't sell the team, and the team's not moving as long as he's alive. So what I'm wondering is, if Ralph's not moving OR selling the team while he's alive, just how does he provide a detailed explanation of what happens once he's deceased?? Ralph owes you nothing, and has no 'moral obligation' to provide you anything, other than a seat at RWS (if you bought a ticket). And it's your county legislature that gave him naming rights and rents him the stadium, and it's your county and state legislatures that financed construction of the stadium (still one of the least expensive facilities - if no THE least expensive - in the league), so blame the guys you voted for if you don't like it, not Ralph Wilson. Now since Carl Paladino received substantial government incentives and tax credits (including a 10-year Empire Zone tax exemption - something originally intended to spur investment in depressed areas) to build his luxury high-rise and townhouses on the exclusive downtown Lake Erie waterfront, I guess (by your reasoning) that he (and every other business that receives government incentives) is also indebted to you. Why don't you try hitting Carl up for a new condo? Tell him he 'owes' you. (And please let me know when you do - I want to be there to see Carl's face and hear his reply. ) Also, it seems you are unaware that, save for the one (and only) completely privately financed and owned Gillette Field, virtually every stadium in the NFL is either publicly owned, or has received some kind of public incentive, handout, land grant, or public (i.e., taxpayer) financing - so I guess every NFL owner except Bob Kraft is 'indebted' to the taxpayers. Take your time, mull it over, and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Undocumented? Undocumented??? Are you nuts, or blind, or maybe just can't read??? What, exactly, would you like 'documented', that I have not already provided thru multiple links to reputable web sites and publications? Your argument is empty, your reasoning ridiculous. And I did read Webster Guy's post - But Ralph has stated unequivocally that he won't sell the team, and the team's not moving as long as he's alive. So what I'm wondering is, if Ralph's not moving OR selling the team while he's alive, just how does he provide a detailed explanation of what happens once he's deceased?? Ralph owes you nothing, and has no 'moral obligation' to provide you anything, other than a seat at RWS (if you bought a ticket). And it's your county legislature that gave him naming rights and rents him the stadium, and it's your county and state legislatures that financed contruction of the stadium (still one of the least expensive facilities - if no THE least expensive - in the league), so blame the guys you voted for if you don't like it, not Ralph Wilson. Now since Carl Paladino received substantial government incentives and tax credits (including a 10-year Empire Zone tax exemption - something originally intended to spur investment in depressed areas) to build his luxury high-rise and townhouses on the exclusive downtown Lake Erie waterfront, I guess (by your reasoning) that he (and every other business that receives government incentives) is also indebted to you. Why don't you try hitting Carl up for a new condo? Tell him he 'owes' you. (And please let me know when you do - I want to be there to see Carl's face and hear his reply. ) Also, it seems you are unaware that, save for the one (and only) completely privately financed and owned Gillette Field, virtually every stadium in the NFL is either publicly owned, or has received some kind of public incentive, handout, land grant, or public (i.e., taxpayer) financing - so I guess every NFL owner except Bob Kraft is 'indebted' to the taxpayers. Take your time, mull it over, and try again. yes, I think every publicly subsidized company is indebted to the taxpayers. Unless its in a contract, then no, not legally, but ethically, yes. When S Carolina lures a BMW plant with tax incentives, they expect a good faith effort on the part of BMW to add financially to the community over a reasonable period of time.. If BMW up and leaves after 2 years because someone offers them a better incentive, I find that unethical. Some might see it as shrewd but I would disagree. Your condo analogy is ridiculous as the benefit to the community is presumed to be something other than subsidized housing from the outset. I think its reasonable to expect that a business subsidized for 50 years by local govt at least consider the interests of the citizens of that gov't when making future plans that might include moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Golisano was getting assraped on taxes on a daily basis... the numbers were ridiculous. I'd move too. Bob Rich also got the hell out of town. Nobody from the Knox family lives here anymore. Russo is trying to sell his Hamburg mansion once again... didn't he move to Florida as well? Who can blame them? Certainly not you or me. Heck, I'm tempted to buy a reasonably sized boat, move to Florida, and live on it - no property, school, OR state income taxes! Even The Peoples' Repiblic of Massachusetts is in revolt. BTW - 'Tax Freedom Day' is comes end of April for New Yorkers this year - until then (the first four months of the year), all our income - every dime we work for - goes to Barry Obama, Dave Paterson, Chris Collins, etc. link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 yes, I think every publicly subsidized company is indebted to the taxpayers. Unless its in a contract, then no, not legally, but ethically, yes. When S Carolina lures a BMW plant with tax incentives, they expect a good faith effort on the part of BMW to add financially to the community over a reasonable period of time.. If BMW up and leaves after 2 years because someone offers them a better incentive, I find that unethical. Some might see it as shrewd but I would disagree. Your condo analogy is ridiculous as the benefit to the community is presumed to be something other than subsidized housing from the outset. I think its reasonable to expect that a business subsidized for 50 years by local govt at least consider the interests of the citizens of that gov't when making future plans that might include moving. Tell that to the folks across the street at Rivermist and Marina Park who bought their properties 15-20 years ago, pay $12K in property taxes, and are now watching their property values plummet because Carl's selling his new buildings with a 10-year tax exemption! Dammit, Carl, you took my money to build that hi-rise - YOU OWE ME!!! BTW, talk about ridiculous analogies - when you drag BMW into this, you're talking about a $$$multi-billion$$$, multi-national corporation. Doesn't really compare to Ralph Wilson's insurance agency now, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Or has he already been clear: Team will be sold to highest bidder when he goes. He owes us money as part of a class action lawsuit settlement for pain and suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 He owes us money as part of a class action lawsuit settlement for pain and suffering. Now you're cookin' with Crisco!!!! Seriously - you may be on to something. A class-action? Hell, why not??? I wouldn't be a bit surprised. If we've learned anything, we've learned that anyone can sue anyone for anything. Ooops - I'm a clumsy oaf and spilled my hot coffee on my leg pulling away from the drive-up window while fumbling with the radio buttons...OWWWWW!!!!! Hey, let's sue McDonald's! Cue that awful music...."Cellino and Barnes, your injury attorneys, call eight five four, twenty twenty..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Tell that to the folks across the street at Rivermist and Marina Park who bought their properties 15-20 years ago, pay $12K in property taxes, and are now watching their property values plummet because Carl's selling his new buildings with a 10-year tax exemption! Dammit, Carl, you took my money to build that hi-rise - YOU OWE ME!!! BTW, talk about ridiculous analogies - when you drag BMW into this, you're talking about a $$$multi-billion$$$, mutli-national corporation. Doesn't really compare to Ralph Wilson's insurance agency now, does it? As a percentage of tax revenues, rw's $1billion insurance agency has probably received more subsidy than bmw in Spartansburg. I think that makes the analogy apt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Or has he already been clear: Team will be sold to highest bidder when he goes. He has been crystal clear. Team auctioned off upon his demise. He owes the area nothing that he has not already delivered. this team should have been gone 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Here you go again..."poor Buffalo and Western New York"....."I live in Houston and I feel so sorry for those people, without the Bills there is nothing to do"...."What the hell is there to do in Houston that I can't do in Buffalo?"My list: 1) Sweat my ass off in the summer: CHECK 2) Watch our government waste money by sending people into space: CHECK you got me on that one. I'd take b lo over houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Who can blame them? Certainly not you or me. Heck, I'm tempted to buy a reasonably sized boat, move to Florida, and live on it - no property, school, OR state income taxes! Even The Peoples' Repiblic of Massachusetts is in revolt. BTW - 'Tax Freedom Day' is comes end of April for New Yorkers this year - until then (the first four months of the year), all our income - every dime we work for - goes to Barry Obama, Dave Paterson, Chris Collins, etc. link I'd do the same as them. No reason to give your money away to the Kommandants in Albany, proudly flying the Hammer and Sickle flag high above that disgusting city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfansince72 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 That's your opinion. In Ralph's opinion, maybe the right thing to do is what's best for his family. I don't have a problem with that. Yea, God forbid his poor family has only $600,000,000 to live on rather than $800,000,000. My friggin heart bleeds for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Yea, God forbid his poor family has only $600,000,000 to live on rather than $800,000,000. My friggin heart bleeds for them. I don't know how they will manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Kelly Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Who can blame them? Certainly not you or me. Heck, I'm tempted to buy a reasonably sized boat, move to Florida, and live on it - no property, school, OR state income taxes! Even The Peoples' Repiblic of Massachusetts is in revolt. Man you should move to Florida with your boat. You have too much time on your hands to dispute the ethical reasonings of Ralph Wilson. Bottom line you feel we don't owe him for having the franchise here in Orchard Park. Good. We know your opinion. Me: I've been a season ticket holder for over 10 years. I deserve the right to be pissed off. We have not had a good product to cheer for in a very long long time. I'm sick of Cash to the cap, ( ironically, we never seem to spend to the cap anyways) Ralph begging for dollars when He wants to fix the stadium, Hiring low level coaches, watching Ralph Wilson's halftime speeches, Hearing Thurman Thomas blab about January 15th as if it was the day we can mark in our calendars (sack of shiPPP) watching Poz, break another bone. and the recent state of the Bills. He (Ralph) owes his fans alot. ethically speaking. So why dont you get in your new boat and sail your Ross Perot ass to FLA. Thank you and Good Night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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