truth on hold Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I say much better with. The more it became Collins band the more crappy pop they put out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 way better with....but still pretty damned good without.....until abacab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I say much better with. The more it became Collins band the more crappy pop they put out. cmon, same as Bills..better with or without Kelly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 genesis never flat out sucked..... cmon, same as Bills..better with or without Kelly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 They've sucked since the mid 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Phil Collins sold his soul to adult contemporary radio. FYI: I've heard there is a full Genesis reunion in the works: Gabriel, Hackett, everybody. The hold up is Collins neck injury. He's lost some feeling in his hands and can't play the drums. I hope this happens anyway. Put Chet Thompson on drums and let Collins sing. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 please.... They've sucked since the mid 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 The first few albums after Gabriel left were as good as anything they did with Gabriel, but they've gone in opposite directions and Gabriel now is WAY better than Genesis is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrojanitor Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I say much better with. The more it became Collins band the more crappy pop they put out. man, Lamb Lays Down on Broadway...Selling England By the Found...Nursery Cryme vs Invisible Touch? not even a contest. Gabriel's weirdness made that band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 man, Lamb Lays Down on Broadway. The last very good effort. Trick of the Tail was OK, I guess. Then...junk. Phil Collins is an embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 The last very good effort. Trick of the Tail was OK, I guess. Then...junk. Phil Collins is an embarrassment. the funny thing is by all accounts collins was the most technically talented musician in the band too. but the more he was given the reigns, the more it was crap like invisible touch, no reply at all and that's all. also from what i understand it was collins who ran gabriel out of the band, because he was getting too much attention as front man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrojanitor Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 the funny thing is by all accounts collins was the most technically talented musician in the band too. but the more he was given the reigns, the more it was crap like invisible touch, no reply at all and that's all. also from what i understand it was collins who ran gabriel out of the band, because he was getting too much attention as front man This is the kind of guys that gets in the way of most bands. Look at Van Halen, always had a musical genius, but who cares after the dumb guy left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 The first few albums after Gabriel left were as good as anything they did with Gabriel, but they've gone in opposite directions and Gabriel now is WAY better than Genesis is now. actually gabriel's stuff has been mostly forgettable too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I say much better with. The more it became Collins band the more crappy pop they put out. Wow, great question. I'm a huge Genesis fan. I say with Gabriel but "Trick of The Tail" and "Winds and Wuthering" are fantastic albums. IMO, another good question is; are they better with or without Hackett? IMO, Hackett's departure was the beginning of the end for the band I call Genesis. Hackett was the guitarist who gave Genesis the art rock sound and the art rock aspect of the band left with him. "And Then There Were Three" and "Duke" are very good albums too. I really like "Behind the Lines" from that album. (The song Collins destroyed on "Face Value" ) According to some of the books I've read, Hackett left the band because he put out a solo album and the guys sat him down and told him he couldn't do that anymore. Ironically, they all put out solo albums soon after he left the band. It didn't help matters either that Hackett asked Collins and Rutherford to appear on "Voyage of the Acolyte" but snubbed Tony Banks, who at the time, was the band leader. Hackett didn't like him because Banks wasn't letting enough of Hackett's work get on the albums. genesis never flat out sucked..... "Oh yeah!! Well you flat out suck!!" (Best I could come up with. ) The first few albums after Gabriel left were as good as anything they did with Gabriel, but they've gone in opposite directions and Gabriel now is WAY better than Genesis is now. I really think Gabriel's solo albums are better than the Genesis albums put out after he left. IMO, Gabriel and Hackett were the total art rock package in Genesis. the funny thing is by all accounts collins was the most technically talented musician in the band too. but the more he was given the reigns, the more it was crap like invisible touch, no reply at all and that's all. also from what i understand it was collins who ran gabriel out of the band, because he was getting too much attention as front man From what I've read, Gabriel left of his own accord. The band members got really pissed at him for leaving after the LLDOB because they had handed over almost total control to him on that album. Some of the music ended up with lyrics over it that Gabriel had said would be instrumental pieces and the guys didn't like that. They also felt betrayed by Gabriel because they were doing everything they could to keep him with the band. Collins is a great drummer, a good vocalist and good song writer. His craft is best suited for pop music. If Genesis had dropped their name and started over with a new name after "Duke" I wouldn't mind him so much but after he took the reigns from Banks as the bandleader he drove them into disaster quicker than James Dean. Rutherford's solo stuff is pretty good, not great, but good. His stuff with Mike and the Mechanics is his best work. I saw an interview with him where he said that Mike and the Mechanics came about because he wanted a band with more than one capable lead singer. Smart move. Bank's solo stuff is relegated to propping up wobbly desks at the music company. The only great thing he's recorded is "Quicksilver" with Fish from Marillion. BTW, can you call them Marillion after Fish left? I've really only heard "Voyage of the Acolyte" from Hackett and it's a good album. He's probably best known for his work with Steve Howe in GTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 actually gabriel's stuff has been mostly forgettable too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Wow, great question. I'm a huge Genesis fan. I say with Gabriel but "Trick of The Tail" and "Winds and Wuthering" are fantastic albums. IMO, another good question is; are they better with or without Hackett? IMO, Hackett's departure was the beginning of the end for the band I call Genesis. Hackett was the guitarist who gave Genesis the art rock sound and the art rock aspect of the band left with him. "And Then There Were Three" and "Duke" are very good albums too. I really like "Behind the Lines" from that album. (The song Collins destroyed on "Face Value" ) According to some of the books I've read, Hackett left the band because he put out a solo album and the guys sat him down and told him he couldn't do that anymore. Ironically, they all put out solo albums soon after he left the band. It didn't help matters either that Hackett asked Collins and Rutherford to appear on "Voyage of the Acolyte" but snubbed Tony Banks, who at the time, was the band leader. Hackett didn't like him because Banks wasn't letting enough of Hackett's work get on the albums. "Oh yeah!! Well you flat out suck!!" (Best I could come up with. ) I really think Gabriel's solo albums are better than the Genesis albums put out after he left. IMO, Gabriel and Hackett were the total art rock package in Genesis. From what I've read, Gabriel left of his own accord. The band members got really pissed at him for leaving after the LLDOB because they had handed over almost total control to him on that album. Some of the music ended up with lyrics over it that Gabriel had said would be instrumental pieces and the guys didn't like that. They also felt betrayed by Gabriel because they were doing everything they could to keep him with the band. Collins is a great drummer, a good vocalist and good song writer. His craft is best suited for pop music. If Genesis had dropped their name and started over with a new name after "Duke" I wouldn't mind him so much but after he took the reigns from Banks as the bandleader he drove them into disaster quicker than James Dean. Rutherford's solo stuff is pretty good, not great, but good. His stuff with Mike and the Mechanics is his best work. I saw an interview with him where he said that Mike and the Mechanics came about because he wanted a band with more than one capable lead singer. Smart move. Bank's solo stuff is relegated to propping up wobbly desks at the music company. The only great thing he's recorded is "Quicksilver" with Fish from Marillion. BTW, can you call them Marillion after Fish left? I've really only heard "Voyage of the Acolyte" from Hackett and it's a good album. He's probably best known for his work with Steve Howe in GTR. great perspective on Genesis, but I distincly remember Collins saying he and the rest of the band were pissed because "we were playing our asses off and Peter was getting all the credit." if you look at some of the live videos when Gabriel was still in the band, when the camera panned to Collins, that's exactly how he looked too. watch the beginning of Moonlit Knight, 7 second mark, for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Bills fan Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I used to be a huge Genesis fan back in the day. That being said, while I loved the old stuff, I think they were far better after Gabriel left up through "Three Sides Live". After that, they became way too "pop". (According to Banks and Rutherford, it was them and not Collins.) Gabriel was also far better after he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 I used to be a huge Genesis fan back in the day. That being said, while I loved the old stuff, I think they were far better after Gabriel left up through "Three Sides Live". After that, they became way too "pop". (According to Banks and Rutherford, it was them and not Collins.) Gabriel was also far better after he left. it's funny, the 1st few albums after Gabriel left, the music didn't sound that much different ... it was consistent with a natural progression you would have expected out of them. But the lyrics imho went really down hill. Instead of the poetry of a "Carpet Crawlers" that made you think, they became too literal. In some way then their first thing to go pop was the lyrics. And when the music caught up with the lyrics they produced really forgettable pop music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 great perspective on Genesis, but I distincly remember Collins saying he and the rest of the band were pissed because "we were playing our asses off and Peter was getting all the credit." if you look at some of the live videos when Gabriel was still in the band, when the camera panned to Collins, that's exactly how he looked too. watch the beginning of Moonlit Knight, 7 second mark, for example I read the book about 25 years ago. (God I feel old ) so my memory may not be fully clear on that but I'm 90% sure that's what I read. The two theories really aren't all that different. Both theories have them pissed at Gabriel but, I am certain that Gabriel left on his own accord and not because the band kicked him out. I'm also pretty certain that Gabriel was responsible for over 80% of the input on LLDOB. I wonder how Collins felt knowing the band was playing their assess off behind him while he fronted the band? Gabriel was a much better front man and song writer and he deserved the credit he got. Roger Daltry gets a lot of credit he doesn't deserve, IMO, if you go by that standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 it's funny, the 1st few albums after Gabriel left, the music didn't sound that much different ... it was consistent with a natural progression you would have expected out of them. But the lyrics imho went really down hill. Instead of the poetry of a "Carpet Crawlers" that made you think, they became too literal. In some way then their first thing to go pop was the lyrics. And when the music caught up with the lyrics they produced really forgettable pop music. What do you think the LLDOB is about? I think it's about death and redemption. Rael is condemned to purgatory for his misdeeds as a human. Through his adventures in purgatory he is given the chance to redeem himself by making the decision to help his brother John or go back to earth. BTW, Genesis was thisclose at one time to making the LLDOB into a movie. The project fell apart though. I'm not sure why but that would've been uber cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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