Nah, no problem with the Strength and Conditioning Coach!! 17

[K-9]

Gosh, Allaire was Rusty's assistant? I had no idea. Obviously that means that Allaire is as good as Rusty.

 

You know, just the way that Eric Mangini, Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel, Bill Belichick's ex-assistants, are just as good as he is.

 

And Byrd is NOT out with the sports hernia. He is out with a groin injury.

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/fo...l/79999042.html

 

Groin injuries are extremely preventable. Yes, this one is somehow related to the surgery he had, but it is likely that if Byrd had been better rehabilitated, done more stretching and perhaps kept on the sideline for an extra week or so, that this would never have happened. That is EXACTLY what a good S&C staff should have been successfully preventing.

 

As usual, way to miss the point entirely. In this case Jones, Allaire, and the entire field of work in which they're involved. Like any aspect of sports medicine and/or exercize physiology, information about prevention of injury, treatment of injury, training, nutrition, etc, etc. is FREELY exchanged within the profession. Your comparison of an S&C coach and their assisants to a head coach and his assistants is ridiculous on a number of levels. It would be too exhausting to list all the reasons. I'll just suggest this: you may wish to familiarize yourself with the roles of an S&C staff vs. that of the TRAINING staff. Oh, and the EQUIPMENT staff as well. I thought I read a post of yours suggesting that a good S&C coach would demand that different helmets be worn to prevent concussions. Not a bad idea but there are financial reasons, contracts with manufacturers, and player preferences to consider. The LAST thing any S&C staff is responsible for is helmets.

 

As for Byrd, it's not his groin. It's a tear in the labrum in his hip that resulted from OVER COMPENSATING for the sports hernia injury. It's a question of surgery now vs. surgery later. Neither Jones, Allaire, or anyone else could have prevented that. Looks like the great Winnipeg Free Press didn't quite have all the facts. But since you're a link fanatic here, from the Bills' own sight, the same story linked on TBD:

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3...af-69a1e987bcce

 

Where were you last summer when the entire Bears' defensive backfield was out with injuries at one point or another in the pre-season? Not even Rusty Jones prevented that rash of injuries.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Thurman#1]

I thought I read a post of yours suggesting that a good S&C coach would demand that different helmets be worn to prevent concussions. Not a bad idea but there are financial reasons, contracts with manufacturers, and player preferences to consider. The LAST thing any S&C staff is responsible for is helmets.

 

 

You did read a post of mine saying exactly that, that different helmets should be mandated,particularly the Riddell Revolution and the Shutt DNA, but opened up to any helmet brands with the same level of anti-concussion features. And you're right, it's not a bad idea. It's a great idea, actually, It's one of my bugaboos on here, and nobody seems to pay attention, so thanks for at least noticing. I've posted about this numerous times and you are, I believe, the first person to ever even mention it in a reply, so thank you. It's much more important than people here seem to think.

 

The question I (and many here) were addressing was whether concussions are preventable. There is a major belief that concussions are not preventable. That is stated over and over in threads like this one. They are sometimes preventable, first with strength and conditioning exercises, second with better equipment and third wtih better tackling and blocking technique. Not every one is preventable. Some are. Injury prevention is a MAJOR function of the S&C staff.

 

Financial reasons? Who cares. Seriously, if a helmet costs a few extra bucks, but keeps guys on the field, it more than pays for itself. Who cares. Contracts with manufacturers? There is no contract with manufacturers preventing this from being done. Player preferences? Yeah, this is the crucial thing to consider here. Right now, in the vast tangled net of rules and agreements between the players and the teams, the CBA and all the rest of it, the players have the right to pick their own helmets. But let's face it, pressure could be brought, lower-level guys who make the wrong choice could be terminated, and most easily, the players could be brought in and told the value that the team puts on this. They could be given the data on concussions and how they have hurt the team (Edwards being the premiere example, but I'm sure many have had their bells rung in smaller incidents that we never hear about. There are many examples around the league, and they ought to be shown the examples of

 

The NFL has suspended it's study on concussions. For some good reasons, but will things continue? Will these things be studied, wherever it happens?

 

Bring in Mike Webster's kid to talk about his story and tell about his homelessness, his head pain and his cognitive problems. Bring in John Mackey, he still does occasional public experiences despite his dementia problems. Bring in Andre Waters's family. Bring in Ted Johnson, 36 years old and shows signs of Alzheimer's.

 

You can change these players opinions and it needs to be done. NOW!!! Make the Bills leaders in this area.

 

Think Hojo's going to do this for the equipment staff? How about the trainers? Whoever it has to be, it needs to get done. The Bills should be trailblazers in this area. If I were a Colts fan, I'd want the Colts to be trailblazers, but I'm a Bills fan.

 

Got some Christmas stuff that has to get done, but I'll answer more of your post later.

[murra]

This needs to be said:

 

Those claiming that strength and condition is directly related to number of injuries as a fact aren't realizing that they're the conspiracy theorists. Can all of that group of people please stop continually pretending like there is any evidence to your claim. It is completely hypothetical. Sure, it could be true. But right now it's a myth. That's alright, though. You can continue to support your theory, just remember to refer to it as one. It gets annoying reading people who pretend like there is definitely a direct relation.

[LynchMob23]

Correlation does not equal causation. Merry Christmas.

[The Big Cat]

Correlation does not equal causation. Merry Christmas.

 

And with hardly any time left on the clock, LynchMob23 tosses in his hat for post of the year!

[ColdBlueNorth]

The common sense answer is of course a strength and conditioning coach can make a difference with preventing injuries, but not alone.

 

Good nutrition enforcement as well as flexibility, stamina, and strength conditioning can certainly help a professional athlete avoid injuries.

 

I would wager that losing teams that are poorly coached also have a higher number of injuries. Players that are overmatched for the position they are playing, players that try to recover when playing out of position, defensive players twisting and lunging to try to make a saving tackle or an offensive linemen trying to pick up a guy he missed or being bull-rushed into a pile of bodies all end up with poor form which in turn leads to injuries.

 

Not all injuries can be prevented in a contact sport, but I think it would be hard to argue that fixing the issues above would not contribute to a more injury-free year.

[Fan in San Diego]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform...aspx?id=4275259

 

And they might even put Trent on IR, since he's apparently out for the year, breaking the all-time record.

 

Our franchise's two highest years of all-time in terms of having to put guys on IR are this year and the year before last. Sorry, you coincidence fans, but this is happening for a reason.

 

I'm sure that our FO realizes at this point, and that we'll have a new guy next year. But injuries have had a major part in destroying two seasons for us. Never mind whether we would have been any good, but if we had been able to keep our original o-line together and at least get them all a lot of reps together, we could have at east said that in one respect, the season was building towards something.

 

Yeah, you can't blame anybody for the freak injuries like Wood's. But for knee injuries, concussions, and the great majority of all NFL injuries, all of them absolutely CAN be greatly reduced by exercise and conditioning and equipment choices (Mandate the Riddell Revolution or the other helmets with anti-concussion features - yeah, I know that policy now is that players can choose - CHANGE THAT!!)

 

Get Rusty back, or at least get one of the highest quality guys in the league.

 

Rusty went to Chicago didn't he? How many injuries did Chicago have this year?

[Thoner7]

You couldn't be more wrong about the circumstances under which wood and butler were rolled. Your recollction is fabrication, at best.

 

Big Cat, meet Youtube

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1yXJ5WTcQ

 

Now I couldnt find the full vid, but my guess is Jags #95 at somepoint before diving at Fitz and breaking Woods leg should have been blocked. Lets say that instead of Kirk "revolving door" Chambers we had a competant OL who easily blocked #95 and had him blocked well enough he didnt get remotely close to Fitz. Do you not think that then - just maybe - #95 wouldnt have fallen on Woods leg and broken it?

 

I would love to hear your explaination as to how #95 could be in two places at once. Easily blocked no where near Fitz AND breaking Woods leg......?

[Thunderstealer]

The "no hitting in practice" thing has no basis in fact. There has never been proof or even any indication that that affects injuries.

 

But you're dead on when you say that bad conditioning produces players getting hurt.

 

 

The well prepaired team that executes it's plays with all 11 men taking the right routes and angles would, i believe reduce the likelyhood of injuries.

[Thoner7]

This needs to be said:

 

Those claiming that strength and condition is directly related to number of injuries as a fact aren't realizing that they're the conspiracy theorists. Can all of that group of people please stop continually pretending like there is any evidence to your claim. It is completely hypothetical. Sure, it could be true. But right now it's a myth. That's alright, though. You can continue to support your theory, just remember to refer to it as one. It gets annoying reading people who pretend like there is definitely a direct relation.

 

Saying that strength and conditioning have zero factor is equally ignorant.

 

There is plenty of evidence on stretching and injury prevention. Proper stretching and flexibility does prevent muscle pulls. The properly implemented and executed stretching program will reduce injuries. I assume the SC coach would be responsible for that - which proves at least some correlation.

 

I dont believe it plays nearly as big a factor as others, but to say that they arent somewhat tied together is ignorant.

[John from Riverside]

A side not that pertains to this conversation.....

 

My son wore a Shutt DNA helmet all the way thru high school......and was in like a zillion high impact collisions as a linebacker......he would get a stiff neck because of the collisions but not one concussion......

 

Second.......the key to not having as many injuries is a. Flexibility and b. Conditioning. Flexibility is something that has to be worked at every single day and some are just more flexible then others.....but it really helps to avoid hamstring injuries......ligament injuries upper and lower....etc.

 

Also......one of the things that should not be overlooked especially at a NFL level is "muscular endurance" you dont just get this from being in the weightroom every day.......it is a complicated science that also has to to with your body being strong from beginning to end of game and not becoming fatiqued.

 

When you get fatiqued your chances of injury shoot up a very large percent.

[Thurman#1]

Correlation does not equal causation. Merry Christmas.

 

 

 

That's true. The earth spins. And the sun comes up in the east and goes down in the west. But they may well have nothing to do with each other.

 

And Merry Christmas to you too.

[Thurman#1]

Rusty went to Chicago didn't he? How many injuries did Chicago have this year?

 

 

 

Exactly my point. The Bears have eight guys on IR right now

 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/chicagobears/roster?team=CHI

 

Look under "status". The guys who are listed as RES are on injured reserve.

 

We have 18.

[Thurman#1]

A side not that pertains to this conversation.....

 

My son wore a Shutt DNA helmet all the way thru high school......and was in like a zillion high impact collisions as a linebacker......he would get a stiff neck because of the collisions but not one concussion......

 

Second.......the key to not having as many injuries is a. Flexibility and b. Conditioning. Flexibility is something that has to be worked at every single day and some are just more flexible then others.....but it really helps to avoid hamstring injuries......ligament injuries upper and lower....etc.

 

Also......one of the things that should not be overlooked especially at a NFL level is "muscular endurance" you dont just get this from being in the weightroom every day.......it is a complicated science that also has to to with your body being strong from beginning to end of game and not becoming fatiqued.

 

When you get fatiqued your chances of injury shoot up a very large percent.

 

 

 

Thanks, John, great stuff. And it's great to hear that your son stayed concussion-free. Those are the important things in life.

[Thurman#1]

I said "retarded," retard. And I provided a link to a post of mine which is very specific. Perhaps you should follow it. Learn something without being the little d-bag that makes the learned repeat themselves. Then again you started this thread, so evidently you need things repeated multiple times:

 

LINK.

 

 

 

Sorry, you did say "retard." Gosh, thanks for that correction. It makes you look so much more mature and intelligent.

 

I don't know where you were brought up. But where I am from (largely Buffalo and Albany), if you want to invite someone to go somewhere, the phrase "This thread and everyone calling for a new Strength and Conditioning Coach are !@#$ing retarded" would not constitute an invitation. They would instead constitute one of those large flashing orange highway signs saying "Blowhard ahead."

[Fan in San Diego]

Exactly my point. The Bears have eight guys on IR right now

 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/chicagobears/roster?team=CHI

 

Look under "status". The guys who are listed as RES are on injured reserve.

 

We have 18.

 

That says alot doesn't it!

[Thurman#1]

I'm back from Christmas, which was great, hope all of you board members had a good one, too. Wanted to continue to address your

 

As usual, way to miss the point entirely. In this case Jones, Allaire, and the entire field of work in which they're involved. Like any aspect of sports medicine and/or exercize physiology, information about prevention of injury, treatment of injury, training, nutrition, etc, etc. is FREELY exchanged within the profession.

 

 

What does that have to do with anything? Virtually all non-defense-related science is also freely exchanged. But that doesn't mean that some scientists aren't much better than others. Are all doctors equally good? All information about teaching is freely available. Are all teachers equally competent? I mean, seriously, are you really trying to say that all S&C coaches are equally good? Seriously?

 

 

As for Byrd, it's not his groin. It's a tear in the labrum in his hip that resulted from OVER COMPENSATING for the sports hernia injury. It's a question of surgery now vs. surgery later. Neither Jones, Allaire, or anyone else could have prevented that. Looks like the great Winnipeg Free Press didn't quite have all the facts. But since you're a link fanatic here, from the Bills' own sight, the same story linked on TBD:

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3...af-69a1e987bcce

 

 

Thanks for the link from the Bills' own "sight". Interesting. But it doesn't help your point any. If his injury was caused by overcompensating, than clearly he was brought along too fast and hadn't been rehabbed correctly or completely. This would seem to indicate that there may well have been culpability about that injury.

 

You say it was surgery now or later. Exactly. That's what IR is for. Guys who are injured and aren't doing the team any good. Byrd wasn't going to be able to play and so we needed a roster spot. So he was put on IR. We have had more of those situations come up in the last three years than ever before.

 

 

Where were you last summer when the entire Bears' defensive backfield was out with injuries at one point or another in the pre-season? Not even Rusty Jones prevented that rash of injuries.

 

 

Just show me where I said that Rusty Jones would prevent any injuries whatsoever, even minor ones, and you will really have put me in my place here. Yeah, the Bears have some injury problems. So does every team. But when a team consistently has more injuries, as the Bills have lately, there's a reason for it. Over three years, this is a consistent problem.

 

--------

 

I remember listening to a radio program about S&C staffs a few years back and they interviewed a Patriot. He said "We used to hate to go up to Buffalo. They hit so hard. You always went home bruised and hurting. And they were still playing hard in the fourth quarter when we were all exhausted." Needless to say, they were talking about the Rusty Jones era.

[Fan in San Diego]

I'm back from Christmas, which was great, hope all of you board members had a good one, too. Wanted to continue to address your

 

 

 

 

What does that have to do with anything? Virtually all non-defense-related science is also freely exchanged. But that doesn't mean that some scientists aren't much better than others. Are all doctors equally good? All information about teaching is freely available. Are all teachers equally competent? I mean, seriously, are you really trying to say that all S&C coaches are equally good? Seriously?

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link from the Bills' own "sight". Interesting. But it doesn't help your point any. If his injury was caused by overcompensating, than clearly he was brought along too fast and hadn't been rehabbed correctly or completely. This would seem to indicate that there may well have been culpability about that injury.

 

You say it was surgery now or later. Exactly. That's what IR is for. Guys who are injured and aren't doing the team any good. Byrd wasn't going to be able to play and so we needed a roster spot. So he was put on IR. We have had more of those situations come up in the last three years than ever before.

 

 

 

 

 

Just show me where I said that Rusty Jones would prevent any injuries whatsoever, even minor ones, and you will really have put me in my place here. Yeah, the Bears have some injury problems. So does every team. But when a team consistently has more injuries, as the Bills have lately, there's a reason for it. Over three years, this is a consistent problem.

 

--------

 

I remember listening to a radio program about S&C staffs a few years back and they interviewed a Patriot. He said "We used to hate to go up to Buffalo. They hit so hard. You always went home bruised and hurting. And they were still playing hard in the fourth quarter when we were all exhausted." Needless to say, they were talking about the Rusty Jones era.

 

Off course we also need to analyze the statics of the Bills vs. the NFL's injuries ratio and Chicago's injuries ratio of IR's vs. the NFL.

 

If Chicago's IR ratio is under the NFL's average then you could make the argument that Rusty's program does have merit.

[uncle_chappy]

Rusty went to Chicago didn't he? How many injuries did Chicago have this year?

 

urlacher and pisa come to mind

[Thurman#1]

This needs to be said:

 

Those claiming that strength and condition is directly related to number of injuries as a fact aren't realizing that they're the conspiracy theorists. Can all of that group of people please stop continually pretending like there is any evidence to your claim. It is completely hypothetical. Sure, it could be true. But right now it's a myth. That's alright, though. You can continue to support your theory, just remember to refer to it as one. It gets annoying reading people who pretend like there is definitely a direct relation.

 

 

 

Yeah, you're right. Has it been proven? No. Is there an awful lot of evidence supporting it? Yeah.

 

Stuff like this is unlikely to ever be proven, because there is no way to eliminate other factors. But again, there is an awful lot of supporting evidence.