Say No to Shanahan

[300yrds]

The only thing I am excited about in this Shanahan coaching circus is the idea of being in the market and the idea of trying to get top coaching in Buffalo. We need a personel guy, somebody who is proven to understand how to put a team together. Shanahan has 4 playoff appearances in 10 years without Elway, seems like mediocre results(although mediocre is better than what we have been putting up with). His reputation in Denver was of rifling through free agents, always looking for another guy. He was a mediocre when holding both GM/Coach.

 

With a good GM and good coordinators, HC becomes a bit less important. I would rather bring in a Holmgren, Shottenhiemer, Casserle as GM. Maybe Weiss or Bratkowski from the Bengals as OC, and maybe Bates, Frazier, Capers, or Nolan as DC, and after that Fewell can stay as HC at that point, he is an excited easy to like guy who seems pretty pumped to be running an organization. With that cast plus a new strength and conditioning coach it doesnt really matter who the HC is.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

This makes sense to me. Top quality coordinators and a real GM. Sinking 10M into a coach seems high to me...and not the best allocation of resources.

[PromoTheRobot]

I'm very encouraged that Jerry Sullivan, one of the biggest pushers of hiring a big-name coach, has turned around. In the opening of today's Sully chat, he admits that hiring a solid GM, and letting him hire the coach, is the way to go. He even suggests Brandon hire a consultant for a GM search. (Not a bad idea.)

 

Hiring a Shanny or Cowher and giving them GM duties too is a risky gamble. Even the best coaches benefit from having input. We are so hot to let Shannahan run the show but have you looked into some of the incredibly boneheaded personnel moves he made? Does Maurice Clarett ring a bell? When he was finally forced out as HC in Denver he left the Broncos hip-deep in cap hell, with most of that money spent on guys who flamed out.

 

PTR

[RyanC882]

The only thing I am excited about in this Shanahan coaching circus is the idea of being in the market and the idea of trying to get top coaching in Buffalo. We need a personel guy, somebody who is proven to understand how to put a team together. Shanahan has 4 playoff appearances in 10 years without Elway, seems like mediocre results(although mediocre is better than what we have been putting up with). His reputation in Denver was of rifling through free agents, always looking for another guy. He was a mediocre when holding both GM/Coach.

 

With a good GM and good coordinators, HC becomes a bit less important. I would rather bring in a Holmgren, Shottenhiemer, Casserle as GM. Maybe Weiss or Bratkowski from the Bengals as OC, and maybe Bates, Frazier, Capers, or Nolan as DC, and after that Fewell can stay as HC at that point, he is an excited easy to like guy who seems pretty pumped to be running an organization. With that cast plus a new strength and conditioning coach it doesnt really matter who the HC is.

 

 

I agree. Keep Fewell, get a top GM. Much more important. Spending the 10 mill on a GM and solid cordinators makes more sense.

[billsfan89]

The only thing I am excited about in this Shanahan coaching circus is the idea of being in the market and the idea of trying to get top coaching in Buffalo. We need a personel guy, somebody who is proven to understand how to put a team together. Shanahan has 4 playoff appearances in 10 years without Elway, seems like mediocre results(although mediocre is better than what we have been putting up with). His reputation in Denver was of rifling through free agents, always looking for another guy. He was a mediocre when holding both GM/Coach.

 

With a good GM and good coordinators, HC becomes a bit less important. I would rather bring in a Holmgren, Shottenhiemer, Casserle as GM. Maybe Weiss or Bratkowski from the Bengals as OC, and maybe Bates, Frazier, Capers, or Nolan as DC, and after that Fewell can stay as HC at that point, he is an excited easy to like guy who seems pretty pumped to be running an organization. With that cast plus a new strength and conditioning coach it doesnt really matter who the HC is.

 

Well if you take away the last few years with a young Cutler Shanny made the playoffs 4 out of 7 years without Elway which is pretty good (Although not great) he also took the Broncos to the AFC title game with Jake Plummer at QB. So to me Shanny is the guy he plays a style conducive to working in Buffalo and beats the Pats*. Shanny brings credibility to Buffalo he can attract Free Agents and bring in a pedigree that players will buy into intimidately.

[PromoTheRobot]

Well if you take away the last few years with a young Cutler Shanny made the playoffs 4 out of 7 years without Elway which is pretty good (Although not great) he also took the Broncos to the AFC title game with Jake Plummer at QB. So to me Shanny is the guy he plays a style conducive to working in Buffalo and beats the Pats*. Shanny brings credibility to Buffalo he can attract Free Agents and bring in a pedigree that players will buy into intimidately.

That seems to be what people want...credibility. Not winning football, just having ESPN talk about us. Trust me, you want credibility with free agents? Show them some of the $50M Ralph will save not hiring Shannahan.

 

PTR

[tennesseeboy]

Well if you take away the last few years with a young Cutler Shanny made the playoffs 4 out of 7 years without Elway which is pretty good (Although not great) he also took the Broncos to the AFC title game with Jake Plummer at QB. So to me Shanny is the guy he plays a style conducive to working in Buffalo and beats the Pats*. Shanny brings credibility to Buffalo he can attract Free Agents and bring in a pedigree that players will buy into intimidately.

you can't "take away" the last three years the guy was a head coach. I can see taking a young coach who had a few bad years early on, or got fired because of a personality issue and making accommodations. With Shanahan it is far more likely that he is on the downward swing of his career. Not a guy to face a challenge like this. I say go with a GM, draft to fill in the trenches on both sides of the line, and let the GM find a quality and energetic coach.

[RyanC882]

That seems to be what people want...credibility. Not winning football, just having ESPN talk about us. Trust me, you want credibility with free agents? Show them some of the $50M Ralph will save not hiring Shannahan.

 

PTR

 

 

Bingo. Money talks. I don't buy that players will come here becuase of Shanny, or won't come here becuase it's cold, etc. Spend that extra 50 million on bonuses, that will get the players here. No one is going to take less $$ to play for Shanny.

[bartshan-83]

I'd agree that route could make a lot of sense. Additionally, Shanahan's asking price does seem pretty ridiculous. But there a few problems:

 

1). You want a "solid GM?" Where are all these guys? I've heard some names thrown out...Casserly? That's not solid, IMO...that's average. Former coaches? Schottenheimer? Does he even want to be a GM or coach? Holmgren? Does he want to be a GM and NOT coach? The last time we hired a "solid" GM, it blew up in our face because he kept hiring weak coaches who wouldn't potentially usurp his power.

 

2). Let's say Shanahan wants $10MM/year. While that is a LOT for one person, is it enough to split among a GM, HC and "top quality coordinators?" I'm not a salary expert but it doesn't seem like you are going to be able to make that money stretch the way you might like it and still get the talent you want. Along those lines, why are all these top coordinators going to want to leave their teams and come to Buffalo? Going to need to PAY them...probably a premium.

 

3). This is mainly an emotional response, but couldn't we just once go the expense route and see where it takes us? Even if it flies in the face of reason? Ralph has patch-worked this franchise for years. This is a team marked largely by failure and mediocrity with fleeting periods of brightly-burning success. Everyone is tired and worn down. If we are going to go down, couldn't we just once go down swinging instead of slapping?

[PromoTheRobot]

I'd agree that route could make a lot of sense. Additionally, Shanahan's asking price does seem pretty ridiculous. But there a few problems:

 

1). You want a "solid GM?" Where are all these guys? I've heard some names thrown out...Casserly? That's not solid, IMO...that's average. Former coaches? Schottenheimer? Does he even want to be a GM or coach? Holmgren? Does he want to be a GM and NOT coach? The last time we hired a "solid" GM, it blew up in our face because he kept hiring weak coaches who wouldn't potentially usurp his power.

 

2). Let's say Shanahan wants $10MM/year. While that is a LOT for one person, is it enough to split among a GM, HC and "top quality coordinators?" I'm not a salary expert but it doesn't seem like you are going to be able to make that money stretch the way you might like it and still get the talent you want. Along those lines, why are all these top coordinators going to want to leave their teams and come to Buffalo? Going to need to PAY them...probably a premium.

 

3). This is mainly an emotional response, but couldn't we just once go the expense route and see where it takes us? Even if it flies in the face of reason? Ralph has patch-worked this franchise for years. This is a team marked largely by failure and mediocrity with fleeting periods of brightly-burning success. Everyone is tired and worn down. If we are going to go down, couldn't we just once go down swinging instead of slapping?

 

GM's climb the ladder like head coaches do. Look at the guys who are working in the front offices of good teams. Look at the pedigree: who they learned their jobs from. Jerry Sullivan siggested Brandon hre a consultant to help him hire a GM. I think that's the first good idea from Sully in ages.

 

PTR

[Maddog69]

GM's climb the ladder like head coaches do. Look at the guys who are working in the front offices of good teams. Look at the pedigree: who they learned their jobs from. Jerry Sullivan siggested Brandon hre a consultant to help him hire a GM. I think that's the first good idea from Sully in ages.

 

PTR

 

Last time Ralph hired a consultant (Marv) to help find a GM and coach, he hired himself as GM and Dick Jauron as HC.

[PromoTheRobot]

Last time Ralph hired a consultant (Marv) to help find a GM and coach, he hired himself as GM and Dick Jauron as HC.

Let's hope Russ Brandon is smarter.

 

PTR

[Maddog69]

Last time Ralph hired a consultant (Marv) to help find a GM and coach, he hired himself as GM and Dick Jauron as HC.

 

In all seriousness, I really think that would be the best thing to do. Get someone like Ernie Acorsi or Ron Wolf to help with the selection process and the re-designing of the front office power structure. Get it right this time around.

[PromoTheRobot]

In all seriousness, I really think that would be the best thing to do. Get someone like Ernie Acorsi or Ron Wolf to help with the selection process and the re-designing of the front office power structure. Get it right this time around.

Amen.

 

PTR

[judman]

The players seem to like playing for Fewell. He has got them inspired, he has energy on the sideline. Granted he replaced a cadaver. I liked the post I saw the other day about the number of HCs in the league right now with no HC experience prior to taking their respective positions. I like the logic of the GM hire. Go big there.

[Orton's Arm]

The only thing I am excited about in this Shanahan coaching circus is the idea of being in the market and the idea of trying to get top coaching in Buffalo. We need a personel guy, somebody who is proven to understand how to put a team together. Shanahan has 4 playoff appearances in 10 years without Elway, seems like mediocre results(although mediocre is better than what we have been putting up with). His reputation in Denver was of rifling through free agents, always looking for another guy. He was a mediocre when holding both GM/Coach.

 

With a good GM and good coordinators, HC becomes a bit less important. I would rather bring in a Holmgren, Shottenhiemer, Casserle as GM. Maybe Weiss or Bratkowski from the Bengals as OC, and maybe Bates, Frazier, Capers, or Nolan as DC, and after that Fewell can stay as HC at that point, he is an excited easy to like guy who seems pretty pumped to be running an organization. With that cast plus a new strength and conditioning coach it doesnt really matter who the HC is.

I agree that Shanahan should not have GM responsibilities for this team. That said, I think he'd be a great head coach. The argument could be made that the Bills should bring in a real GM, and let him hire his own head coach. With the possibility that he might choose Shanahan.

[billsfan89]

That seems to be what people want...credibility. Not winning football, just having ESPN talk about us. Trust me, you want credibility with free agents? Show them some of the $50M Ralph will save not hiring Shannahan.

 

PTR

 

If you don't have a coach who legitimizes your team you end up having to overpay for guys like Derrick Dockery. Its not about getting talked about on ESPN its just about bringing in a guy who can coach and build a team to me Shanny can do that.

[PromoTheRobot]

If you don't have a coach who legitimizes your team you end up having to overpay for guys like Derrick Dockery. Its not about getting talked about on ESPN its just about bringing in a guy who can coach and build a team to me Shanny can do that.

If you need a Shannahan so bad, why do most teams not hire name coaches? Do you know only 5 NFL head coaches have experience? 5 out of 32!! The Bills don't need Shannahan for credibility. They need to look like they are heading in the right direction. A good GM will do that. If you are hiring Shannahan or Cowher you are betting the farm on something that rarely works.

 

PTR

[thewildrabbit]

New Flash... this Bills org will never hire a 10 million dollar a year head coach, its all hype to keep the fans sedated.

 

Once the hiring actually starts after the season ends the Bills will claim they tried to hire everybody, but in reality they will hire no big names.

 

They will end up hiring someone like Jim Halsett and keep the same front office and hope they can stir up fan hype during the draft or free agency.

 

The one thing this team needs is a really GM in the mold of Bill Polian, let him hire the head coach. Almost any head coach can succeed if he hires really good coordinators and has good players.

[lifefan]

In all seriousness, I really think that would be the best thing to do. Get someone like Ernie Acorsi or Ron Wolf to help with the selection process and the re-designing of the front office power structure. Get it right this time around.

 

 

I agree 100%. Get a football mind to direct this process. The only catch is that RW would have to admit to being a part of the problem. He would have to OK someone making changes to what he has done himself. Would he really do that?

[billsfan89]

If you need a Shannahan so bad, why do most teams not hire name coaches? Do you know only 5 NFL head coaches have experience? 5 out of 32!! The Bills don't need Shannahan for credibility. They need to look like they are heading in the right direction. A good GM will do that. If you are hiring Shannahan or Cowher you are betting the farm on something that rarely works.

 

PTR

 

If Shanny doesn't want to come here I would be all for hiring a football GM and a coordinator like Russ Grimm. However if we can get Shanny I think that he would be the best fit for the situation.

 

Unlike other organizations (Dallas, both New Yorks, Washington, New England, and other bigger more glamorous markets) we don't have the luxury of 1- playing in a big market, 2- Having a winning situation, and having a stable situation beyond the near future. So the Cowboys can hire a hot shot coordinator and bring in free agents to help build his system quickly. The Bills need to build with the draft and that takes years and is a crap shoot.

 

If we go coordinator/GM INSTEAD of Shanny I think that would be a mistake. Shanny brings creditability to this franchise and it goes beyond attention. Shanny is an offensive guy who builds teams that can be successful in Buffalo. I think that he is the opposite of DJ and unlike a coordinator like Russ Grimm we won't be sacrificing 2 or more seasons trying to build a system.

 

The Jets brought in Rex Ryan and they were able to sign Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard, and trade for Lito Sheppard AND they also had the draft, and as well as an in season trade for Braylon Edwards. If the Bills brought in Russ Grimm they would only be able to help him with 2nd and 3rd tier free agents and the Bills draft picks. Not saying Shanny would attract bigger names right away but he knows what players fit his system and can get his system implemented much quicker.

[bills_believer]

I don't want Shanahan in a combo position of GM/Head Coach. I wonder if he would be a little like Donahoe in coming here with a chip on his shoulder, feeling as if he was unjustly fired and trying to prove how smart he is. For players it sometimes works having a chip on their shoulder, but for your head coach or GM I think it works against them if they are trying to prove they are smarter than the rest of the world.

 

What I have heard is that Shanahan wants to install the 3-4. I have nothing against the 3-4, but the Bills personnel is designed for the 4-3 now, and it seems like there are quite a few teams seeking players who fit the 3-4. The Bills would be better off sticking to a 4-3

 

I agree that the Bills need to get a GM first. Seems to me that Casserly has a kind of mixed record. I would prefer Floyd Reese to Casserly. Jeff Ireland from the Dolphins would sound good with the idea that he would have learned from Parcells, who I think you have to consider one of the best.

 

I disagree with the idea that Head coach is less important because of the coordinators. The head coach you get is going to determine how good of coordinator you can get. The head coach needs a top notch expeirienced coordinator in the field opposite of his specialty. Jauron needed a top notch offensive coordinator and if he had sought one perhaps it would have kept him from his disastrous offensive decisions and perhaps even helped him with game management. The pay scale you pay your head coach will determine what you pay your coordinators. Your head coach needs to be confident and shrewd enough to choose a top notch offensive coordinator.

 

It seems to me that you should be able to get a good coordinator because the head coaches that get fired were oftentimes a good coordinator. (Greg Williams and Mike Mullarkey are good coordinators and have been good additions to the orgaizations that picked them up). You just need to offer the money and have the head coach that a good coordinator respects enough to work for.

[Astrojanitor]

If you need a Shannahan so bad, why do most teams not hire name coaches? Do you know only 5 NFL head coaches have experience? 5 out of 32!! The Bills don't need Shannahan for credibility. They need to look like they are heading in the right direction. A good GM will do that. If you are hiring Shannahan or Cowher you are betting the farm on something that rarely works.

 

PTR

 

+10!

[bananathumb]

Nothing will work. Ralph is n charge.