[Interesting and detailed Bills Draft visits chart]

1 hour ago, Bruffalo said:

Considering he did a private workout for the Bills I wouldn't be too worried about his combine numbers if the Bills drafted him. 

 

I wouldn't be happy with him at 28 either though. I've said this a few times, but I like the idea of taking best receiver available at 28 (AD Mitchell or BJT if we're lucky, etc...) and then moving up a little in the second and getting McConkey / Franklin / Polk. 

 

Speculation is BTJ will be going in the teens and the Bills will need to move up to get him.

[OJ Simpson dead at 76]

wow...guess he will be judged by the ultimate judger now. And I doubt the "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit" line with the glove will help him this time.

[One positive from Diggs departure that isn't being discussed]

58 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Joe Brady fed into the narrative that Buffalo was dead last year when he took over. He wore the “Buffalo vs Everybody “ sweatshirt almost everyday.

 

I think we are better as an underdog. We’re an underdog city. It’ll be easy for McDermott and his staff to motivate this team.

 

That's true...the team always seemed to play better when it's backs were against the wall and everyone was doubting them and saying they were done. Anytime they were anointed as front-runners it seemed to get to their heads and they played with too much reckless abandon rather than focus.

[1st vs 2nd Round WR Hit Rate]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I've had a quick look at who were my top guys available to the Bills at their first pick of the draft since I've been doing it (based on where they actually picked, of course some years they could have considered trade ups) and I did bang the table for a few of these guys at the time.... Evans, Higgins and Marshall in particular.

 

2021 - Terrace Marshall (was my WR4 top 3 had gone before the Bills picked)

2020 - Tee Higgins (was my WR4 top 3 had gone before the Bills picked)

2019 - AJ Brown (was my WR1)

2018 - Calvin Ridley (was my WR1 but the guy I liked for the Bills was my WR2 Courtland Sutton)

2017 - Chris Godwin (was my WR4 but the guy I liked for the Bills was my WR5.... a fella called Zay Jones)

2016 - Laquon Treadwell (was my WR1 but that was a bad receiver class I didn't have any first round grades at the position and was anti-selecting one)

2015 - Tyler Lockett (was my WR6 top 5 had gone before the Bills picked because we had no first round pick)

2014 - Mike Evans (was my WR1 and the guy I banged the table for)

 

 

If the Bills would have taken any of those 3 outside Marshall and Treadwell, they would have been absolutely loaded at WR

[Interesting and detailed Bills Draft visits chart]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

Terrible combine unless you believe that he was sick. Reminds me of the bad singers on American Idol that say their throat hurts. Also seems to go down really easily. I don't think he's worth 28. He'd be good value at 60 but unlikely to be there.

 

Anyone putting more stock in the combine versus what they watched on tape in actual games should not be drafting players.

[1st vs 2nd Round WR Hit Rate]

Now do 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds

Calvin Ridley is not a ++ player? The man put up almost 1400 yards one season? 1000 yards last year...he is a very good receiver

[Interesting and detailed Bills Draft visits chart]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Troy Franklin you are a Buffalo Bill 🙈

 

I'd love Franklin here...

[One positive from Diggs departure that isn't being discussed]

1 hour ago, sunshynman said:

Bunch of blowhards! Who cares what they say. Our Offense will have a few growing pains this year. But in the end will be better than last year.

 

The offense was mostly fine after Brady took over and Diggs was pretty much an afterthought in most of those games.

[Odds are WR position after draft will still be more of question then the answer desired]

This is true and while Diggs may have been declining over the course of the last half of the season, he STILL was drawing the #1 CB most times to line up against him...now the other WR's will have to deal with that instead of having a buffer.

[NFL Opens 3rd Helmet Design to All Teams]

Bills better be all over those red helmets again...like they had when they were going to super bowls.

[Who is the best #14 in Bills history?]

1 hour ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Actually....it was. 

 

From the OP's first post - 

Best doesn't necessarily mean who produced most.  It could.

 

But just overall if you take everything into a player from production to leadership, tenure, great moments, to just likeable.....

 

Did you read the first post or do you just like to just be passive aggressive and imply the people responding with players based on great moments are stupid?

 

In my very subjective opinion based off of the very subjective criteria listed out in the very first post....It's Ryan Fitzpatrick....for me.

 

But I'm willing to be open minded about others subjective position based on: production to leadership, tenure, great moments, to just likeable....which was in...THE VERY FIRST POST. 

 

 

 

OP shouldn't pose subjective questions with non subjective titles then. The title of the thread and what he is actually asking don't align at all.

[Who is the best #14 in Bills history?]

Diggs and it isn't close. The question wasn't "who is your most sentimental #14" or "who is your favorite #14". It was who is the best.  Diggs far and away is the best and these other replies answering a question that wasn't asked probably need to learn how to separate logic and emotion a little better.  This wasn't an interpretation question, it was a logic question not open for interpretation....by any measure Diggs was the best #14 ever on the Bills.

[interesting WR scenario posed by a friend]

Just now, NewEra said:

If we traded a first (and possibly more) for Aiyuk AND paid him 25m+ a year I wouldn’t be happy.  I’d consider giving them out 2nd rd next year for him, but we all know that isn’t happening 

we paid what we paid for Diggs partly because he was already on his and contract which was extremely team friendly.  
 

I’d rather have Legette then to pay a big price for BTj in a trade up.

 

i would be ok if they decided to go all in on MHj, Nabers or Odunze.  I think all 3 are potentially elite all pro level WRs with 17 and would be under control for 5 years
 

 

 

The higher up they go to get a player the bigger the rookie cap hit will be tho, something to keep in mind too...

[interesting WR scenario posed by a friend]

On 4/8/2024 at 10:23 AM, Watkins101 said:

Remember when Robert Foster had over 500 yards the final 8 games of the season, and everybody here was saying he was gonna be a 1/2? Kinda feels like that with all the hype Shakir is getting. 

Yeah, not really.  The advanced metrics are extremely in favor of Shakir actually being really good. They never were for Robert Foster.  Shakir was getting targets as a #3 or #4 option and still made things happen. Foster was a defacto #1 for us and got targets because there was literally nobody else to get them. It was basically him and McKenzie that year for the last half of the season.

 

Robert Foster was never #1 in open rate against man coverage like Shakir was his rookie season and was never #1 in yards/target for any WR with 45 or more targets like Shakir was last year.  I am calling it right now Shakir will be in the 65-70 catch range and 900-1100 range for yards this season. Call it a breakout, call it a natural progression, call it whatever you want.  What I see is a guy who is slippery smooth, runs good routes, gets open against a variety of coverages, catches almost everything thrown to him and then makes something happen after the catch with the ball in his hands and has running back moves and can bounce off tacklers to get extra yards. Yeah he is a 5th round pick, but who cares, so was Diggs.

 

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So since I'm digging into past drafts:

Year	1st rd WR - pick	order wAV of 1st Rd WR	Pick # Best WR	Pick # 2nd WR	# WR drafted
2017	2 - #7, #9	#7, #9	#69	#89	13
2018	2 - #24, #26	#24, #26	#24	#47	34
2019	2 - #25, #32	#25, #32	#51	#64	28
2020	6 - #12,15,17,21,22,25	#17, 22, 25, 15, 21, 12	#17	#22	35
2021	5 - #5, 6, 10, 20, 27	#5, 10, 6, 27, 20	#112	#5	35
2022	6 - #8,10,11, 12, 16,18	#11, 8, 10, 16, 18, 12	#11	#52	28
2023	4 - #20, 21, 22, 23	#22, 23, 20, 21	#177	#22	33

 

So what does all this mean?  First off, 2023 and 2022 should be taken with a large grain of salt because a lot of guys are still clumped together for wAV, and PFR's weighting may not align with yours and mine.

There were 4 years in which the first WR picked turned out to be the first round WR with the best wAV, and 3 years in which they did not.
There are no years in which the first WR picked, turned out to be the best WR in the draft! 

In 4 out of 7 years, the best WR was not drafted in the 1st round

 

One last bit, even in years where 6 WR were drafted in the 1st round - the consensus BPA for all 32 teams ran out of WR before pick #28.

 

I toss this out for whatever comfort it may pose, if the Bills don't draft a WR in the 1st or don't move up for one of the top 3 WR in the draft.  The board will predictably go nuts, but 4 times in the last 7 years, the best WR in the draft wasn't even drafted in the 1st (3 times, he was)

Every year, various draft pundits authoritatively speak as to which player at a position, or which 2 or 3 players at a position, are absolutely the best in the draft.

 

And far more often than not, they are mistaken.
 

Obviously, teams are making judgements on these points as well, and they're often mistaken

 

Once again, drafting is not an exact science, and then we get into coaching and player development and the intangibles like the player's drive and will to succeed.

 

This is a good point and a large part of how successful a player is or isn't comes down to how they are used, the scheme they play in and the opportunities they are given.  I mean would Puka Nacua have gotten such a prominent role in the offense if Cooper Kupp hadn't been injured?  Probably not. Also, a WR drafted in the 3rd round on a bad team might get a lot more snaps as a top 3 WR than a 1st round pick drafted on a good team. Or at least a similar number of reps, and might be targeted more often than a rookie on a good team simply due to too many players and not enough balls to go around where the same player on a bad team doesn't have this issue.

 

[Josh Allen Snapped at Diggs - Per Tim Graham]

I mean honestly, so what?  Did you ever snap at someone at work over something?  Did that lead you to hating the other person for the rest of the time you worked there?  Most likely not...you probably apologized and then by the next week it was forgotten and you were back to being fine with them.

 

People really are trying way too hard with this...

 

And this also shows me who has never played sports in their life.  Tim Graham for sure...because if you have played sports even in the youth levels and haven't snapped at someone in the heat of the moment, you would be on a very short list.  But someone who never played team sports as a kid wouldn't know this and would think this could be some huge thing...

 

All it does is show he is clueless.

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Incidents like this.. players snapping at each other in the locker room after  a tough unexpected loss … would happen quite regularly in team sports… 

Im not saying there weren’t issues with Diggs and Allen ..  but this particular story is a nothing burger in my opinion ..

 

Exactly...even playing sports growing up this happened regularly in the heat of the moment...it's obvious Graham never played team sports or was someone who sat on the sideline the whole gam and never really played.

[interesting WR scenario posed by a friend]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I know enough about the cap to understand why the Bills can’t afford Aiyuk this season, which definitely puts me ahead of you on that subject. 

 

Also I understand that the trade and Aiyuk acquisitions are separate scenarios. Reread what I wrote. I’m not interested in trading up for any WR other than the top 3. Aiyuk is not feasible for cap reasons. 

 

 

How could they not afford him if they trade for him, then redo his contract and extend him and give him a $1 million base salary in year 1 of the deal? It's easily doable. The Bills need roughly $3 mil for draft picks, they have $3+ million available now plus $10+ mil coming free June 1st.  That gives them about $13 million in cap space they could work with.  Obviously they will need some for practice squad and signing players during the season due to injuries, etc but they don't need to worry about that until a week before the league year begins.  At this point it's only the Top 51 players that count toward the cap.

 

And it's not like they couldn't move some money around or potentially cut someone else to free up the space if they wanted to do it.

[interesting WR scenario posed by a friend]

11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Won’t work. Aiyuk’s current contract is over $14M. If you trade this year’s picks, then you can’t wait until after 6/1 to trade for him since that’s after the draft. Even if we did, we still don’t have the room since we need that $10M for the season. Also his next contract will still have a larger cap hit than we could absorb this season. He’s going to be a $25M a year player. 

 

Why are you assuming we trade picks to move up in the draft?  Those scenarios are independent of each other...it's not like both have to happen or neither can happen.

 

You clearly don't understand how easy it is to manipulate the cap if you actually believe that.  Players making far more than he would be making have very low cap hits in year one to facilitate these type of things. Diggs trade opened up a ton of cap space each year over the next 3 seasons following this one, I believe more than $25 million a year each year.

 

[interesting WR scenario posed by a friend]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

lol…another 0% chance scenario.  Every thread you’re giving away the farm to get every WR with no consideration for substantial amount of holes on this team.  
 

There is absolutely no chance Beane is trading up TWICE in first 2 rounds for 2 WRs leaving us very little ammo to find the players we need in our secondary and DL as well.  Not to mention another RB and OL depth we are likely going to use some of the day 3 picks on.  And to do so in the deepest and richest WR draft in history is utterly insane.  

 

To get into the mid teens, it’s probably going to cost us our first next year as well without having to gut some of our draft capital this year that we need.  Everyone forgets the other team needs to want to move back to and be worth passing on the talent that will be there at OL, DL, CB, and even the WR for themselves.  

 

Considering the Bills seem to do just fine with plugging literally anyone in the secondary and doing well within the scheme, should that be a big concern?  Why waste high picks when their upside is limited within the scheme and the downside is even more limited with taking a 5th or 6th round pick?  Basically the scheme has a lower ceiling but much higher floor than most in terms of individual DB value. We had literally a rag tag secondary in the heat game in Miami and held them to 219 yards of total offense with Ja'Marcus Ingram, a rookie street UFA forced into playing more than half the game after being called up from the PS due to injuries and missing 3/4 of the starters, including both safeties. This call for high DB picks is insane honestly and makes little sense. There is virtually NO UPSIDE to it.

 

DL...sure I could see some picks there, but let's be real. We tried loading up on D for multiple years and where has it gotten us? The D has failed badly ion every playoff loss, even with the #1 and #2 defenses in the NFL during the season.  Why waste your time trying to load up on D again?  Settle for a middle of the pack D that makes a few key plays a game and load up on offense. You aren't going to win with D, you may be able to win with O.

7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Aiyuk would be a tremendous addition to the Bills, but we can’t fit his contract under the cap so that won’t work. I have zero interest in a big trade up for any WR outside the top 3. Too much capital for not much difference than can be had near 28. 

 

Sure we could. $10 mil is freed up on the cap post June 1st due to the Tre White cut and if they are making that trade they would already likely have an extension in place and the first year of that could EASILY be made to fit within the cap and then take up what Diggs would have the following years with a little extra most likely in there.

[interesting WR scenario posed by a friend]

22 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

Remember when Robert Foster had over 500 yards the final 8 games of the season, and everybody here was saying he was gonna be a 1/2? Kinda feels like that with all the hype Shakir is getting. 

 

Not even close...

 

Shakir is a far better receiver than Foster ever was and can run the full complement of routes.

 

His rookie year, he led the NFL in percentage of routes he was open against man coverage and last year he led the NFL in yards/target for any WR with 45+ targets.  Brandon Aiyuk was 2nd, and he led WR's in yards/target for any WR over 50 targets.

 

Shakir has a chance to make a huge leap this season, and if anything, I think people are underhyping it.  He reminds me of a cross between Robert Woods and Andre Reed. He has shifty, RB type moves in the open field and has enough speed to pull away from people, even if it looks deceptive and like he isn't really moving that fast. Also has an ability to get low and bounce off tacklers(like that crazy TD against the Steelers in the playoffs).

 

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

There are so many good receivers in this draft that it's likely a guy who may well have been a first rounder in other years (McConkey, who is really good and a great athlete) falls to the second. It's not about the number assigned to the round of the pick; it's about the talent level of the player. I think his point is a) take advantage of a great WR draft NOW and b) get Allen his elite skill players sooner rather than later. 

 

Aiyuk is really good, as evidenced by finishing #2 in yards per target last season.

 

He finished #1 for any WR with 50+ targets.  2nd to Shakir in any WR with 45+ targets.

[Report: Micah Parsons act is "wearing thin" in Dallas]

25 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Splitting hairs here, but Myles Garrett has 88.5 sacks in 7 seasons.  Chris Jones also has claim to the top spot.  

 

Chris Jones always seems to make the big play at the big time in the key games when the game hangs in the balance.  Over and over and over again...pretty much had a huge play in every playoff game for as long as I can remember for the Chiefs.

[interesting WR scenario posed by a friend]

5 minutes ago, drummernut74 said:

Everything is cool except trading 2025 1st to get into the 2nd.  Totally illogical when we are going to have to start replenishing on D

 

Forget about defense. If we are going to win it's on the back of the offense.  How many times do you have to see the elite D fail in the playoffs to know no matter how good they make the D it's not going to matter? McD should be able to make due with what he gets on D.

[Diggs' perspective (from Dibs')]

Jason Whitlock claims it was because he wanted to go somewhere with great strip clubs and to be closer to his brother so they could hang out: 

 

Jason Whitlock: “I’m going to go back to what I said a year ago... Stefon Diggs has wanted out. He went to Buffalo to pair up with Josh Allen and to win a Superbowl, and now this will be his 10th NFL season and he don't care about winning at this point. What I told y'all a year ago was he’s like ‘man, I'm up in here in Buffalo, I came out here to win Super Bowls, we're not going to win a Super Bowl, it's cold up in here, the strip clubs aren't as good, let me get to a city where the strip clubs are off the charts, and me and my brother can hang out...’ I speculated that he wanted to get to Dallas. Well, he couldn't get to Dallas, but... 

 

It's been years since I've been to a strip club, but I used to be a strip club connoisseur. Houston as a ‘strip club capital -- it's got to be in the top five in the country. I'd put Miami, Vegas, Portland, Houston, and Atlanta -- those are the top five. I'm telling you; people swear by Houston strip clubs, Stefon Diggs is very happy. It's not about winning at this point, it's not about stats, he's made his money, he's gotten the big contracts, he's good. He'll want to put up some numbers, but he don't really care. He's not about that life, and this ain't about winning. 

 

I know that Houston is all-in. they got DeMeco Ryan, the great young coach, they got the great young quarterback, Joe Mixon, they got Danielle Hunter, who had a tremendous season last year... Houston is in win-now mode. Stefon Diggs looks good on paper, but I actually think he'll end up being the problem and could throw a banana peel for the Houston Texans, who have made a lot of moves trying to win right now. 

 

He got 160 targets last year in Buffalo and the least amount of targets he ever got in four seasons in Buffalo was 154, so they fed him the ball. I’m not dismissing what CJ Stroud did as a rookie, but we've seen quarterbacks have great ‘years’. Josh Allen has had a great 3,4, 5-year run, but Diggs has got to be careful what he wishes for here. He may regret abandoning Josh Allen. Not the city of Buffalo and that cold weather, but Josh Allen. Josh Allen is a better quarterback than CJ Stroud and he's more proven than CJ Stroud. This could be one of those ‘Oh, the grass is greener! They got Joe Mixon! They got Danielle Hunter! DeMeco Ryans is a hot new coach! CJ Stroud is the best young quarterback in the league, and Sean McDermott and Josh Allen don’t know what they’re doing!’ The grass isn’t always greener. CJ Stroud could take a step back, and Josh Allen is NOT going to take a step back.  

 

Diggs put pressure on Josh Allen and he’s going to eventually do the same thing to CJ Stroud. Right now, it’s in the honeymoon phase, but these diva wide receivers, particularly with Black quarterbacks, they can get out of pocket in terms of how entitled they feel. Think about the way Terrell Owens treated Donovan McNabb. They’re putting a controversial, polarizing, and outspoken receiver paired with their hot young quarterback, and it could blow up in their face.  

 

I’m saying this in all seriousness and circling back to what I said in the beginning of this. The strip club culture in Houston is going to be a problem. I’m not even trying to be funny. Stefon Diggs, his brother Trevon, they like the social life, they like to get out there and party, and have a good time. They like ‘304s’ and there’s a lot of 304’s in Houston. There are some women in Houston celebrating right now ‘HEY, WE FOUND SOMEONE TO REPLACE JAMES HARDEN HERE IN HOUSTON! I called it a year ago. The guy wanted out of Buffalo, he wanted to be in a city where he could party, and he just moved to Houston.” 

[Report: Micah Parsons act is "wearing thin" in Dallas]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The reaction to Diggs' problems was pretty damn restrained until the trade.

 

If this had been NYC, now then we'd have seen probably not a 5 alarm fire but 3 or 4. Before the trade it was one or two alarms at most. It was a fire, but not a huge deal by any means.

 

Myself, if this Parsons thing gains legs, I'd expect bigger waves. It's a bigger market.

 

Are you kidding?  The National Media had been creating story after story for 2 years, especially coming from Mike Florio and PFT who wrote every time Diggs tweeted something weird and said "Whoa! There is another tweet from Diggs wanting out".

[Report: Micah Parsons act is "wearing thin" in Dallas]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Here’s the problem Parsons is legit the best defensive player in the league just approaching his prime there’s a pretty good chance the other guys go who said this before him as Jerry will find out.

 

Until you run the ball right at him like the Bills did and then he is exposed.

[Report: Micah Parsons act is "wearing thin" in Dallas]

Uh oh...Diggs part II...let's see if the National Media turn this into the blazing 5 alarm fire like they did the  Diggs situation...

 

Report from 105.3 The Fan that he has heard from at least 4 "sources" inside the Cowboys locker room that if Parsons was traded there might not be as many people upset as you would think and that his act is wearing thin in the locker room there...

 

https://www.audacy.com/1053thefan/sports/dallas-cowboys/is-micah-parsons-behavior-wearing-thin-at-the-star